Impeachment Hearings

[rangerx]

1 minute ago, zapatos said:

Who in the hell do you think you are to judge me?

Analogies seem to be lost on you. That's not for me to judge, but for you to present.

I didn't make this about you, I made this about your countrymen. You made it about you.

[LaurieAG]

So democracy won, that should surprise nobody.

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, LaurieAG said:

So democracy won, that should surprise nobody.

But the process of justice was not served correctly by denying witnesses, so democracy was not served because the poll was executed with absent information.

Edited February 6, 2020 by StringJunky

[rangerx]

1 hour ago, LaurieAG said:

So democracy won, that should surprise nobody.

I'm sure Ukraine would beg to differ.

[swansont]

7 hours ago, rangerx said:

 You've clearly absolved yourself from any part of that, after all you're not a senator, right.

There are a few senators whose craven behavior has been on display for years. However, I think that the bulk of the GOP contingent, and most of the ones (re-) elected before 2018, still get benefit of the doubt for the character on display for voters making their decision. It's only after Trump was elected that they went all-in on putting party above country, and shredded any pretense that they are supporting and defending the Constitution.

Anyone who voted for McConnell (and a few others) knew what they were getting. But the rest can still be plausibly shocked and disappointed and be absolved of this if they vote to remove their senator.

[dimreepr]

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

But the process of justice was not served correctly by denying witnesses, so democracy was not served because the poll was executed with absent information.

And they all swore to be impartial.

But only the GOP reneged.

9 hours ago, rangerx said:

Analogies seem to be lost on you. That's not for me to judge, but for you to present.

I didn't make this about you, I made this about your countrymen. You made it about you.

how is that different?

[iNow]

Nobody cares, guys. Let's move forward

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

Nobody cares, guys. Let's move forward

But I care... Let's plant a seed... 

[rangerx]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

how is that different?

Because zap didn't meddle in a foreign country with quid pro quo to interfere with an election, but his countrymen did.

[dimreepr]

    

4 minutes ago, rangerx said:

Because zap didn't meddle in a foreign country with quid pro quo to interfere with an election, but his countrymen did.

why do you care?

[CharonY]

!

Moderator Note

Folks, how about we do not make this personal and perhaps discuss the system instead?

 

[rangerx]

47 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

    

why do you care?

Because I am a Canadian and Ukraine is our ally. It matters to me and my countrymen that our allies contribute to war efforts and humanitarian aid in a timely and lawful manner.

And I am half Ukrainian. Crimea to be precise. Despite decades and centuries of oppression and violence, the Cossacks (Khazak - loosely meaning "free men, adventurers having the right to travel and associate" and albeit peculiar, it was the only democracy in the region.

Ukraine had been meddled by Poland, Sweden ( yeah, Sweden) and Russia, annexed by Austria and occupied by Russia. In WW1, my grandfather had the option fighting for the axis or death by firing squad. He was captured by the allies and released soon thereafter, because he inherently supported democracy. He sneaked back into Ukraine, rounded up the woman he loved and her daughter (who was not his blood) and escaped to the west.

That girl was my grandmother. We lost people then and we are missing people now.

But why do you care?


 

Edited February 6, 2020 by rangerx

[J.C.MacSwell]

+1 not picking sides, but for the post

[rangerx]

3 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

+1 not picking sides, but for the post

Thank you, JC. Sides doesn't matter among friends, so long as things are civil.

I come across as hostile sometimes, but it's more from a place of frustration rather than anything. I only revealed this because I'd hope you'd gather my position that things like Pelosi filing a month late rings hollow and does nothing to address the underlying issue.

That being our allies are shot out of the skies, displaced from their homes or otherwise detained while democracy is falling to oligarchs.

[iNow]

^Well said. Agreed. Thanks for sharing. 

To be clear, I meant nobody cares about the pointless bickering that was happening here in the thread, not that nobody cares real lives are being affected here or people’s grandmothers out in harms way. 

[LaurieAG]

20 hours ago, rangerx said:

I'm sure Ukraine would beg to differ.

How come you're so sure? Have you contacted your authorities with your evidence?

Please provide a link to some first hand evidence and I might consider what you say otherwise you cannot make an informed opinion.

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/abc-news-media-bias

https://youtu.be/lH_sdTC7Anw

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/23/abcs_tom_llamas_was_hunter_biden_profiting_off_his_dads_work_as_vice_president_and_did_joe_biden_allow_it.html

[dimreepr]

16 hours ago, rangerx said:

Thank you, JC. Sides doesn't matter among friends, so long as things are civil.

I come across as hostile sometimes, but it's more from a place of frustration rather than anything. I only revealed this because I'd hope you'd gather my position that things like Pelosi filing a month late rings hollow and does nothing to address the underlying issue.

That being our allies are shot out of the skies, displaced from their homes or otherwise detained while democracy is falling to oligarchs.

Can't argue with that... god darn it

[John Cuthber]

On 2/6/2020 at 9:23 AM, LaurieAG said:

So democracy won, that should surprise nobody.

That's a surprise to the majority of US voters who didn't vote for their current president.

[LaurieAG]

15 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

That's a surprise to the majority of US voters who didn't vote for their current president.

That's up to your democratic states and their democratically elected legislators if you want to quibble, so Trump as POTUS and his impeachment acquittal are still the results of a democratic system.

[John Cuthber]

37 minutes ago, LaurieAG said:

That's up to your democratic states and their democratically elected legislators if you want to quibble, so Trump as POTUS and his impeachment acquittal are still the results of a democratic system.

Saddam hussein won the vote in Iraq, but it wasn't a democratic system.

The "German Democratic Republic" wasn't actually a democracy.

If the system gives what's plainly the wrong answer, it's not actually a democratic system, is it?

 

[J.C.MacSwell]

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Saddam hussein won the vote in Iraq, but it wasn't a democratic system.

The "German Democratic Republic" wasn't actually a democracy.

If the system gives what's plainly the wrong answer, it's not actually a democratic system, is it?

 

Exactly why some "Socialist Democracies" don't allow anyone to vote for "wrong answers" once they are in power.

I guess those are the only "actual" democracies?

[dimreepr]

16 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Exactly why some "Socialist Democracies" don't allow anyone to vote for "wrong answers" once they are in power.

I guess those are the only "actual" democracies?

18 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

That's a surprise to the majority of US voters who didn't vote for their current president.

I guess the only "actual" democracy is proportional representation.

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by dimreepr

[J.C.MacSwell]

A pure democracy, uninhibited by a constitution (or equivalent), would allow a tyranny by the majority.

[dimreepr]

the tyranny is choice.

Edited February 9, 2020 by dimreepr

[J.C.MacSwell]

19 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

the tyranny is choice.

I guess the American voters should be happy with just two choices this Fall...a rude narcissist favouring business over people that can only run an economy by increasing deficit spending, and increasingly reduced environmental regulations...or a well meaning Socialist (Bernie) with lots of promises that has no clue how to run an economy at all.

Of course...AOC has an economics degree...I guess she can help Bernie with that.

Edited February 9, 2020 by J.C.MacSwell