Telepathic Proof

[Arnold Ungab]

I can prove to world of science that i can do telepathic ability or send messages directly mind to mind, does any scientific organization or persons are willing to conduct such experiment.Please help to find people that are willing to make experiments because i am a willing participant. Thank you

[Phi for All]

What experiments are you talking about? And if you don't know, how do you know you can "prove" it?

You should forget about "proof", and concentrate on how you can provide evidence of your claims. The more evidence to support it, the more persuasive your argument will be. Define EXACTLY what you mean by "I can do telepathic ability". Define what you mean by "send messages directly mind to mind". 

The most important thing at this stage is for you to decide what would show your claims to be FALSE. What test failed, or what message not sent would show that you CAN'T do telepathic ability? Your claims need to be capable of falsification before we can take them seriously.

Once you can do that, then you should be able to take any standard test for ESP, using validated methodology. They'll be looking for results that go beyond statistical anomaly. Or if your definitions are different, perhaps then someone could suggest a way to test them. 

Based solely on your OP, I would expect you to be able to send a random phrase as a private message to one of our staff members, then send the same phrase directly to my mind with your telepathic ability. When the staff member and I confer, I should be able to tell them, "Blue peninsula hopping trousers twisted badly", and they should be amazed that I said the exact same phrase as you. That's when everyone here suddenly becomes very interested in your thread.

Got anything like that?

[Strange]

1 hour ago, Arnold Ungab said:

I can prove to world of science that i can do telepathic ability or send messages directly mind to mind

No you can't.

[Sensei]

1 hour ago, Arnold Ungab said:

I can prove to world of science that i can do telepathic ability or send messages directly mind to mind, does any scientific organization or persons are willing to conduct such experiment.Please help to find people that are willing to make experiments because i am a willing participant. Thank you

I just sent you message mind to mind. Please write contents of my message to you. Thank you.

 

[studiot]

1 hour ago, Arnold Ungab said:

Please help to find people that are willing to make experiments because i am a willing participant. Thank you

Would this be a type of voluntary false confession syndrome ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_confession

Quote

In that vein, approximately 60 people are reported to have confessed to the 1947 murder of Elizabeth Short in Los Angeles, who was known as the "Black Dahlia" in a spectacular case.^[5]

 

[Phi for All]

3 minutes ago, Sensei said:

I just sent you message mind to mind. Please write contents of my message to you. Thank you.

"Build your own cloud chamber to see subatomic particles."

Did I get it right?

[Sensei]

8 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

"Build your own cloud chamber to see subatomic particles."

Did I get it right?

LOL!

The above message was for the all who deny quantum physics and disbelieve in particles.

When I am thinking right now, I wish my previous message to Arnold was so ambitious...

[iNow]

It’s too bad you’re only telepathic. Had you instead been clairvoyant, you’d have known in advance to go claim your million dollars by passing the James Randi Paranormal challenge before they ended it. 

[Arnold Ungab]

On 11/20/2019 at 10:28 AM, Phi for All said:

What experiments are you talking about? And if you don't know, how do you know you can "prove" it?

You should forget about "proof", and concentrate on how you can provide evidence of your claims. The more evidence to support it, the more persuasive your argument will be. Define EXACTLY what you mean by "I can do telepathic ability". Define what you mean by "send messages directly mind to mind". 

The most important thing at this stage is for you to decide what would show your claims to be FALSE. What test failed, or what message not sent would show that you CAN'T do telepathic ability? Your claims need to be capable of falsification before we can take them seriously.

Once you can do that, then you should be able to take any standard test for ESP, using validated methodology. They'll be looking for results that go beyond statistical anomaly. Or if your definitions are different, perhaps then someone could suggest a way to test them. 

Based solely on your OP, I would expect you to be able to send a random phrase as a private message to one of our staff members, then send the same phrase directly to my mind with your telepathic ability. When the staff member and I confer, I should be able to tell them, "Blue peninsula hopping trousers twisted badly", and they should be amazed that I said the exact same phrase as you. That's when everyone here suddenly becomes very interested in your thread.

Got anything like that?

Yes i can in short distances only for example i can send a message "Blue peninsula hopping trousers twisted badly" without opening my mouth just direct from my mind to the other person's mind and the person can receive it .. this is my reason why i want a scientific experiments regarding my ability. The only problem is will be there enough scientists to look for it, experiment with it in a controlled laboratory. I want to manage it badly enough and to get data from it so i an refine it.... there is a huge potential to any sorts of application. will you help me sir..

On 11/20/2019 at 11:36 AM, Sensei said:

I just sent you message mind to mind. Please write contents of my message to you. Thank you.

 

lol, a great joke for a non believer but if i ever get tested i will invite you for sure....

On 11/20/2019 at 11:42 AM, studiot said:

Would this be a type of voluntary false confession syndrome ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_confes have sion

 

@Studiot all i want is a scientific research, experiment and complete data of it... besides 99.99 percent of all people that claim they have the telepathic ability is completely sham and make alot of money from non skeptical people.

On 11/20/2019 at 11:21 AM, Strange said:

No you can't.

@Strange yes i can, i just need a scientific measurement in a control laboratory thus prove it does exist and hopefully be accepted in the scientific community. Quantum mechanics was a myth before and the people word hard at it was being laughed insultingly before now it is purely accepted in the community.

[Strange]

1 hour ago, Arnold Ungab said:

i just need a scientific measurement in a control laboratory thus prove it does exist and hopefully be accepted in the scientific community.

You could do some scientific tests yourself. Get a couple of independent witnesses and try something like the following.

You get a person to write 10 short messages (even one or two words would do) on pieces of paper and seal each piece of paper in an envelope. Each envelope is numbered, 1 to 10. That person must take no further part in the experiment and have no contact with anyone else in the experiment. (So they leave the envelopes in a room and one of your witnesses (A) collects them later).

Next, you and witness A go into a room with closed doors and windows (and the window coverings closed). Witness B goes into a room next door, also with the doors and windows closed.

Witness A shuffles the envelopes and passes you one. They make a note of the time and the number of the envelope.

You open the envelope and, without saying anything, project the message into the mind of Witness B in the next room. Then you put the paper back in the envelope and hand it back to Witness A. (Witness A should never see the message). Then Witness A picks another envelope and you do the same thing: the number and time is noted and you project the message. Repeat for all 10 envelopes.

Meanwhile, Witness B is sitting next door and every time you project a message into their head, they write down the time and the message.

When the test is finished, you (and the two witnesses) compare the record of messages received by B with the record of envelopes/messages made by A.

You must state in advance if you will allow synonyms or words that sound similar. For example, you project "quick" and they write down "fast". Is that allowed? Or does it have to be the exact message? When judging the results, if you allow synonyms, then you must use a thesaurus to judge if it is a match or not. For example, if you project "quick" and they write down "motorbike" you can't say this a match "because motorbikes go fast".

Film the whole thing. Let us know how many of the messages and times are correct.

(Suggestions for further improvements welcome).

1 hour ago, Arnold Ungab said:

Quantum mechanics was a myth before and the people word hard at it was being laughed insultingly before now it is purely accepted in the community.

Nonsense.

1 hour ago, Arnold Ungab said:

besides 99.99 percent of all people that claim they have the telepathic ability is completely sham and make alot of money from non skeptical people.

I would say 100% are a sham (most are probably fooling themselves, a few are deliberately lying). A tiny percentage make money from it.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Strange
Clarification

[Arnold Ungab]

20 hours ago, Strange said:

You could do some scientific tests yourself. Get a couple of independent witnesses and try something like the following.

You get a person to write 10 short messages (two words for example) on pieces of paper and seal each piece of paper in an envelope. Each envelope is numbered, 1 to 10. That person must take no further part in the experiment and have no contact with anyone else in the experiment. (So they leave the envelopes in a room and one of your witnesses (A) collects them later).

Next, you and witness A go into a room with closed doors and windows (and the window coverings closed). Witness B goes into a room next door, also with the doors and windows closed.

Witness A shuffles the envelopes and passes you one. They make a note of the time and the number of the envelope. You open the envelope and, without saying anything, project the message into the mind of Witness B in the next room. Then you put the paper back in the envelope and hand it back to Witness A. (Witness A should never see the message). Then Witness A picks another envelope and you do the same thing: the number and time is noted and you project the message.

Meanwhile, Witness B is sitting next door and every time you project a message into their head, they write down the time and the message.

When the test is finished, you compare the record of messages received by B with the record of envelopes/messages by A.

Let us know how many of the messages are correct.

yes i did that kind of experiment and they wont become a willing witnesses i don't know what is the prob but as far im concern the person hated me. so i need a educated and understand the scientific methods also a willing participant in the exercise.

[Strange]

36 minutes ago, Arnold Ungab said:

yes i did that kind of experiment and they wont become a willing witnesses

So you didn't do "that kind of experiment" if you didn't have witnesses.

Surely you can find a couple of people (fellow students, workers, friends, family) who would be willing to help you.

I suggest you don't start out by saying "I'm telepathic, help me prove it" because that will put a lot of people off. Try something like, " Hey, I read about this idea for testing if telepathy is real; it sounds crazy but do you want to help me try it out?"

39 minutes ago, Arnold Ungab said:

so i need a educated and understand the scientific methods also a willing participant in the exercise.

You need more than one person, because you have to try and do a double blind test. (Ideally, the comparison of results would be done a by a third person who has no direct contact with you, witness A or witness B until after the results have been collated).

[Ghideon]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

(Suggestions for further improvements welcome).

Strange's approach seems good so I'll add to it. I think a detailed definition of "message" is useful. Some notes regarding definitions of message:
-Is a message text only?
-Can a message be numerical?
-Can the message consist of random letters?
-Can a text message be delivered in a different language?
-Is a message delivered exactly letter by letter?
-Will the receiver be able to distinguish "peace" from "peas"?
-Does the receiver have to know about the subject or understand the words that makes up the message? 
-How does the receiver "know" that they have the message? What kind of sensation is triggered? 
-Is "intention" or feelings delivered with the message? Example: "Now that was just freaking awesome" could be a sarcastic comment or meant as a compliment.

Some additional notes to start modeling the phenomenon*:
-Is the effect exactly the same for all receiving individuals or are there differences?
-What happens at the sending side if there is no individual receiving the message?
-What happens with the other people around, will they receive the message?
-What happens if you do not know if there is a person in the receiving room? Can you tell?
-Can the receiving individual choose to not listen to messages? 
-Over what range can the message be transferred?
-What happens at maximum range, are some parts dropped? Some messages are not transferred? Other?
-Are some recipients are more sensitive, receiving messages at longer distances?

 

 

*) I'm of course completely convinced that this (and other) experiments will fail, telepathy does not exist. But discussing pros and cons of possible approaches is interesting.

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ghideon
missing word

[Phi for All]

3 hours ago, Arnold Ungab said:

Yes i can in short distances only

Can you be more specific than "short"? Science requires rigor and accuracy.

[John Cuthber]

23 hours ago, Arnold Ungab said:

I can prove to world of science that i can do telepathic ability or send messages directly mind to mind

Then why are you using the internet?

[Strange]

21 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Then why are you using the internet?

 

[Arnold Ungab]

On 11/21/2019 at 12:59 AM, Ghideon said:

Strange's approach seems good so I'll add to it. I think a detailed definition of "message" is useful. Some notes regarding definitions of message:
-Is a message text only
-Can a message be numerical?    
-Can the message consist of random letters?   
-Can a text message be delivered in a different language?
-Is a message delivered exactly letter by letter?
-Will the receiver be able to distinguish "peace" from "peas"?
-Does the receiver have to know about the subject or understand the words that makes up the message?      
-How does the receiver "know" that they have the message? What kind of sensation is triggered?    
-Is "intention" or feelings delivered with the message? Example: "Now that was just freaking awesome" could be a sarcastic comment or meant as a compliment.     

Some additional notes to start modeling the phenomenon*:
-Is the effect exactly the same for all receiving individuals or are there differences? 
-What happens at the sending side if there is no individual receiving the message?   
-What happens with the other people around, will they receive the message?             
-What happens if you do not know if there is a person in the receiving room? Can you tell?     
-Can the receiving individual choose to not listen to messages?     
-Over what range can the message be transferred?       
-What happens at maximum range, are some parts dropped? Some messages are not transferred? Other?     
-Are some recipients are more sensitive, receiving messages at longer distances?       

*) I'm of course completely convinced that this (and other) experiments will fail, telepathy does not exist. But discussing pros and cons of possible approaches is interesting.

 

-Is a message text only?  * i cannot send a text message to a person mind possibly words.. 
-Can a message be numerical?    *yes numbers , words and also symbols.
-Can the message consist of random letters?    *did not test it yet by any random letters but more of a straight communication
-Can a text message be delivered in a different language?    * yes
-Is a message delivered exactly letter by letter?   * yes
-Will the receiver be able to distinguish "peace" from "peas"?   *yes
-Does the receiver have to know about the subject or understand the words that makes up the message?   *no, the receiver don't have to the subject
-How does the receiver "know" that they have the message? What kind of sensation is triggered?    *we don't know how it works but the person can here it just like normal talking
-Is "intention" or feelings delivered with the message? Example: "Now that was just freaking awesome" could be a sarcastic comment or meant as a compliment.   * like i said the person felt like its normal talking 

Some additional notes to start modeling the phenomenon*:
-Is the effect exactly the same for all receiving individuals or are there differences?  * yes there have different feeling
-What happens at the sending side if there is no individual receiving the message?  *normal
-What happens with the other people around, will they receive the message?   * confused
-What happens if you do not know if there is a person in the receiving room? Can you tell?  * i can tell if there is receiver
-Can the receiving individual choose to not listen to messages?    * they can't 
-Over what range can the message be transferred?    *  10 meter or more it depends on the sender
-What happens at maximum range, are some parts dropped? Some messages are not transferred? Other?   * they receiver mixed messages
-Are some recipients are more sensitive, receiving messages at longer distances?    * absolutely

 

20 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Then why are you using the internet?

@John Cuthber im nof proffesor X and we are not in X men

[Mordred]

Have you stated anything related to an actual scientific examination?

Absolutely NOT. 

[Arnold Ungab]

On 11/21/2019 at 1:35 AM, Phi for All said:

Can you be more specific than "short"? Science requires rigor and accuracy.

@Phi for All less than 10 meters

20 hours ago, Mordred said:

Have you stated anything related to an actual scientific examination?

Absolutely NOT. 

@Mordred  Absolutely not. true, i'm not a scientist so i dont know how to do it.. scientific is very rigorous task and must be a controlled manner see above replied message Ghideon

 

-

[Mordred]

Less than 10 meters then you should try the double blind tests mentioned on this thread with a third party overseer and gather datasets.

 

[Strange]

9 hours ago, Arnold Ungab said:

Absolutely not. true, i'm not a scientist so i dont know how to do it.. scientific is very rigorous task and must be a controlled manner see above replied message Ghideon

You have been given some good advice (even if I say so, myself) on how to do it. 

You don't need to be a scientist to do science. (Although, once you start working scientifically and accepting the results, then you become a scientist!)

[Arnold Ungab]

22 hours ago, Strange said:

You have been given some good advice (even if I say so, myself) on how to do it. 

You don't need to be a scientist to do science. (Although, once you start working scientifically and accepting the results, then you become a scientist!)

@Strange   i don't know i mean all i need is a willing participant for the experiments and no one is willing to be a test subject. besides organizations have a lot of technologies and funding meanwhile i'm very poor... so i really need money to conduct experiments a very controlled one. will help me sir

On 11/21/2019 at 5:21 PM, Mordred said:

Less than 10 meters then you should try the double blind tests mentioned on this thread with a third party overseer and gather datasets.

 

@Mordred   I would love too but there are no willing participants it seem i am surround by poor minded people, not knowing the huge potential of this ability. For those telepathic skeptics that i've seen on television, Sir Mordred please help me to find contact them. They want the real deal well here i'am just waiting....

[iNow]

How about you find willing participants telepathically?

Much more like;y is you’re intuitive and pick up on nonverbal cues. You form guesses about others based on this. 

It’s not telepathy, and wealth is not required to gather data. 

[Strange]

3 hours ago, Arnold Ungab said:

 i don't know i mean all i need is a willing participant for the experiments and no one is willing to be a test subject. besides organizations have a lot of technologies and funding meanwhile i'm very poor... so i really need money to conduct experiments a very controlled one. will help me sir

You don't need technology or (lots of) money.

I'm sure you could find a couple of students who would be willing to take part for the price of a beer or a lunch.

3 hours ago, Arnold Ungab said:

 I would love too but there are no willing participants it seem i am surround by poor minded people, not knowing the huge potential of this ability.

If you are finding it that hard to find people to help, I can only assume you are putting them off with talk of your (non-existent) ability.

[Mordred]

3 hours ago, Arnold Ungab said:

@Strange

@Mordred   I would love too but there are no willing participants it seem i am surround by poor minded people, not knowing the huge potential of this ability. For those telepathic skeptics that i've seen on television, Sir Mordred please help me to find contact them. They want the real deal well here i'am just waiting....

How could I possibly help you if your range is 10 metres and I probably live over a 1000 km from you ?