"Intelligent" Design

[swansont]

........And you haven't heard all the arguments for ICR's views on it, have you? Their video on it goes into all the details regarding the science they've done. They do public debates with notable counterparts in many scholastic arenas on various science topics, so likely their arguments would need to have some credence for them to keep up this public activity.

 

 

Hardly. There are documented cases where some of these very notable/public creationists have said something that isn't factual (e.g. that Lucy's knee was found 3 miles from the rest of the skeleton), they are corrected, and yet they keep on saying it. At that point there is no doubt that they are lying, even if you were willing to give them the benefit of doubt before.

 

So credence is apparently not an issue. These people preach to the choir, and the choir doesn't appear to care much whether they hear facts.

 

If there are more arguments than the ones I listed, by all means post them. But several have already been addressed, and the creation claims are found wanting.

[Ophiolite]

In that post I wasn't implying that' date=' I was addressing your ludicrous "appeal to conspiracy" as the reason for lack of publication.

[/quote']'Appeal to conspiracy' is not a valid argument for buzsaw to make. However, it is equally ludicrous to propose that research that challenges current theories will have an equal opportunity of publication. Or, do you feel that Thomas Khun was entirely wrong?

[swansont]

'Appeal to conspiracy' is not a valid argument for buzsaw to make. However, it is equally ludicrous to propose that research that challenges current theories will have an equal opportunity of publication. Or, do you feel that Thomas Khun was entirely wrong?

 

Not being an expert on Kuhn, I can't say whether he was entirely wrong.

 

I never claimed that there was equal opportunity for publication, as science is not a democratic process. If your position has scientific merit, though, you can get it published. It's the lack of merit that is the problem, coupled with the lack of even trying.

[buzsaw]

I still would like to know what kind of answer you would have when the microbes are found. Ah well, I guess we will know within the next few years when they get some.

 

If microbes were to be found on Mars, the basic laws of science say, as I understand them, that the likelihood of their demise, extinction and deterioriation would be more likely then their progression and evolvement into something more complex, intelligent and orderly.

 

And your book has some flaws.

 

Your love/jealousy thing is quite off topic, imo, but shouldn't go unrefuted. It would be nice if you'd keep your arguments a bit more on topic, imo.

 

You can pull verses from the Bible here and there out of context and manipulate the book to say just about anything you want it to when disregarding the context as you have done.

 

Like people, there are things that loving people and a loving God hates. The same goes with jealousy. There is an evil jealousy and there is a good jealousy. The context of God's jealousy had to do with false gods relative to who Israel worshipped and served whereas with people, nobody respects or likes a person who is jealous of another's good fortune or success. That certainly is not being loving.

 

Many more exist.

 

LOL! Think things through next time before posting. It might save you some embarrassment.

[buzsaw]

Gotta run. Will address more when I get time.

[The Peon]

removed. (pointless)

[swansont]

You can pull verses from the Bible here and there out of context and manipulate the book to say just about anything you want it to when disregarding the context as you have done.

 

 

Oh, the sweet, sweet irony of that statement.

[ydoaPs]

Oh, the sweet, sweet irony of that statement.

indeed

[AL]

Very likely there are some areas folks like ICR do studies in that would be worthy of publishing in the journals if they were fair and balanced.

Well, an IDist (Stephen Meyer) did get published in a journal -- The Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington. The article is primarily a review of the literature (mostly Creationist "literature" as well as references to Meyer's other works), rather than field or lab research demonstrating something substantive.

 

The article hasn't fared very well under scrutiny, but shortly after its publication, it was hailed by its supporters as proof of ID's scientific legitimacy.

 

The full article can be found here.

A critical review, here.

[DQW]

I like this quote :

.. rarity by itself shouldn't necessarily be evidence of anything. When one is dealt a bridge hand of thirteen cards, the probability of being dealt that particular hand is less than one in 600 billion. Still, it would be absurd for someone to be dealt a hand, examine it carefully, calculate that the probability of getting it is less than one in 600 billion, and then conclude that he must not have been dealt that very hand because it is so very improbable.

--John Allen Paulos, author of Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and its Consequences

 

Ummm...that's all.

[buzsaw]

Hardly. There are documented cases where some of these very notable/public creationists have said something that isn't factual (e.g. that Lucy's knee was found 3 miles from the rest of the skeleton), they are corrected, and yet they keep on saying it. At that point there is no doubt that they are lying, even if you were willing to give them the benefit of doubt before.

 

Can you give us a link or two for this documentation?

[buzsaw]

Oh, the sweet, sweet irony of that statement.

 

Powerful refute!! Ouch!! Buzsaw on the ropes!!

[buzsaw]

indeed

 

Oooo!! Ouwy refute !! Buzsaw ideologically down for the count!!

[swansont]

Can you give us a link or two for this documentation?

 

Lucy's knee joint

 

creationist whoppers

[JC1]

inspired by this thread, "intelligent design", so most of you don't believe in creation? what do you think about the ancient sumerian civilization? the first ever human civilization on earth which appeared virtually overnight. Cities and temples...their knowledge of the solar system,mathematics,astrology, etc... how could the sumerians possibly build a highly advanced culture literally overnight? it's even considered advanced in OUR time according to some scholars. According to the ancient tablets, they owe their civilization to the "gods" sent from heaven.. they even have a list of their "gods" dating back to 400,000 years.. does this make any sense?? heck, after knowing this, i'm beginning to think that there are in fact extraterrestrial activity here on earth long ago and maybe helped shape the human intelligence.

[Hellbender]

i'm beginning to think that there are in fact extraterrestrial activity here on earth long ago and maybe helped shape the human intelligence.

you are not the first to have such an idea.

http://skepdic.com/vondanik.html

 

http://www.debunker.com/texts/vondanik.html

[JC1]

you are not the first to have such an idea.

http://skepdic.com/vondanik.html

 

http://www.debunker.com/texts/vondanik.html

 

And your point is...?

[swansont]

what do you think about the ancient sumerian civilization? the first ever human civilization on earth which appeared virtually overnight. Cities and temples...their knowledge of the solar system,mathematics,astrology, etc... how could the sumerians possibly build a highly advanced culture literally overnight?

 

References, please. Credible, if you don't mind.

[The Peon]

Can you give us a link or two for this documentation?

 

 

"Can you give us a link or two for this documentation."

 

Hes not working alone !

[JC1]

References, please. Credible, if you don't mind.

 

well, this is what i've learned from my art history class. but i believe this is common knowledge for those who know about sumerian civilization. it's something that historians/scholars/anthropologists can agree on that the ancient sumerian civilization is full of MYSTERIES.

[CPL.Luke]

so is any civilization that hasn't been around for thousands of years.

 

 

from what I've heard of them they had a decent idea of the solar system, but alot of ancient peoples had this. Who knows how accurate it was though?

 

don't believe anything your art teacher tells you about history unrelated to art.

[swansont]

well, this is what i've learned from my art history class. but i believe this is common knowledge for those who know about sumerian civilization. it's something that historians/scholars/anthropologists can agree on that the ancient sumerian civilization is full of MYSTERIES.

 

 

I don't accept "common knowledge" and art history class as credible evidence that a civilization appeared "overnight" and used as evidence of creation.

[AL]

inspired by this thread, "intelligent design", so most of you don't believe in creation? what do you think about the ancient sumerian civilization? the first ever human civilization on earth which appeared virtually overnight. Cities and temples...their knowledge of the solar system,mathematics,astrology[/b'], etc... how could the sumerians possibly build a highly advanced culture literally overnight? it's even considered advanced in OUR time according to some scholars. According to the ancient tablets, they owe their civilization to the "gods" sent from heaven.. they even have a list of their "gods" dating back to 400,000 years.. does this make any sense?? heck, after knowing this, i'm beginning to think that there are in fact extraterrestrial activity here on earth long ago and maybe helped shape the human intelligence.

It just struck me as particularly hilarious that you pointed out astrology as a high point of an ancient civilization's progress.

[Hellbender]

And your point is...?

1. I was being neighborly by posting links with some food-for-thought. Get off the defensive, sheesh.

2. These are other people that had this idea before you, and reasons why their methods are logically and factually flawed.

[Hellbender]

It just struck me as particularly hilarious that you pointed out astrology as a high point of an ancient civilization's progress.

LOL! I just noticed this.