Bias in news sources (Split from: Impeachment Hearings)

[iNow]

15 minutes ago, YJ02 said:

Then please name me one American news source that is without bias and only reports news from a complete objective stance only.

False dichotomy. I pushed back on your claim that news sources are ALL useless and all biased. In response, you’ve asked me to name a perfect one. There’s a whole spectrum in between. It’s not binary, and the graphics that you and I both shared on page 1 of this thread seem to highlight the same best ones. 

[YJ02]

5 minutes ago, iNow said:

False dichotomy

Its not,actually you are just trying to shut down discussion. "shout down,shut down"" in effect

you say there are good news sources, I am asking for some qualitative evidence to that.

[zapatos]

24 minutes ago, YJ02 said:

... you are just trying to shut down discussion. 

 

Give me a break. Whenever anyone disagrees with you your first response is to say you are being silenced. You are not being persecuted here.

Edited December 13, 2019 by zapatos

[iNow]

11 hours ago, YJ02 said:

I want to believe there is  Cronkite type news out there still, because America definitely needs one or a hundred.

Judy Woodruff comes close, IMO

Even Trump himself has praised her show for accuracy: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-trump-says-hell-have-to-start-watching-pbs-much-more

 

[YJ02]

Binary Bias.. the phenomena in psychology and sociology that concerns the 'all or nothing', 'my way or the highway', 'no gray areas' and 'you are either with us or against us' position people and society often take on certain things.

 

to this, I find it very interesting/frustrating/dishonest that the segment of our society that DEMANDS that there be no binary bias applied to their gender or sexual activities, is all too often the very segment that applies binary bias to every other socio-political position

 

like how you can't say "I think that Trump has done a few good things for the country, like the First Step Act, but over all I do not approve of his performance as President".

 

then the aforementioned segment of society applies the bias by demanding you either be totally against him or totally for him.

 

this is also done by them in many other areas of the  socio-political realm. Like in entertainment. If we have a great female singer who everyone seems to like quite a bit, but then some odd bit of news comes out about her (say she's a Scientologist who has shunned her family) we are all expected to immediately hate her and her music, despite her talent.. that is dishonest to do so. And if one applies it and accepts the bias assigned, when were you being dishonest; when you said you loved her or now, when you say you hate her?

 

When I was growing up, I only ever saw this behavior in very strict and conservative families led by a "Archie Bunker" type of father/mother. Now it is embraced, full on by the segment of society that claims to be for freedom but yet acts so illiberal and intolerant in their actions.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, YJ02 said:

then the aforementioned segment of society applies the bias by demanding you either be totally against him or totally for him.

Where do you see this happening and what evidence do you have that it is? Is this perhaps another one of those "opinions" that you're asserting as fact?

[MigL]

Well, even A Hitler, B Mussolini and J Stalin did a couple of good things.
But I would have been all for impeaching them also ( or worse ).

( no, I 'm not equating D Trump with any of those murderers )

[iNow]

Rereading this, I realize Trump himself forces total loyalty and is an example of the type of person YJ is lamenting

[J.C.MacSwell]

6 minutes ago, iNow said:

Rereading this, I realize Trump himself forces total loyalty and is an example of the type of person YJ is lamenting

I'm guessing even if you just include Trump supporters...most lament much of his behaviour.

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I'm guessing even if you just include Trump supporters...most lament much of his behaviour.

Depends on the type of supporter, I think. Among seasoned politicians and career public servants, I would think so. But several folks have made the case that there is also a cult-like element (take a look at "The Trump Prophecy", a semi-documentary made by students which argues that Trump was ordained by god, for example). For these folks a lack of loyalty to Trump would be, hum, heresy.

[iNow]

15 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Depends on the type of supporter, I think.

Precisely right.

Some hate his style but love his judges. Some hate his morals but love his tax cuts. Some hate his tweets but love his punching of China. Some love that he breaks the system and don’t hate him at all. Some love that he’s always pushing the fight and putting people on their heel sand don’t hate him at all. Some just love that he hates and discriminates and don’t hate him at all. Some love how he’s a poor mans version of a rich guy and do t hate him at all.

And that’s just among his supporters.  I haven’t even touched on the feelings of his opposition. But we’re off topic. 

The news loves him because he drives ratings.  He’s the reality tv president. Making good guys and bad guys to root for and discuss. 

Believe he got something like $2B in free media coverage the last election.  Is too bad he’s a drug they just can’t quit. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by iNow

[YJ02]

23 hours ago, iNow said:

Where do you see this happening and what evidence do you have that it is? Is this perhaps another one of those "opinions" that you're asserting as fact?

This article is based on the state of current american politics and the grinding political intolerance it is creating

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/201910/can-polarized-american-politics-find-the-middle-way?fbclid=IwAR1jtWLWc4VUpMrjkC6ZzL_-sezinyQsi1keECjzjZbSdrgWf2fw-wSpGyY

Or, just go to any page on facebook or twitter or wherever people are talking about this. join in and say something like " i didn't vote for trump" or "i dont like trump, but i think he has done a few good things. i also think the impeachment process is bad for our nation..." and see what kind of response you get.

here is one response i got after i posted a question that went "after all of this (impeachment) and the dems now saying zelensky is a trump hostage and stoolie, would any of you accept a ukrainian run investigation that did find corruption involving Hunter Biden, or would you just see it as trump forcing ukraine to fabricate the investigation results?"

responses to me directly but they were also referring to someone else as well in the thread (I am Ted btw) --- 

Quote

 

 It’s amazing, isn’t it? The Trump supporters (including the “Why do you keep saying I’m a Trump supporter just because I repeat his every insane lie and talking point- I am NOT a Trump supporter!” subspecies) are absolutely incapable of rationally defending his despicable behavior, so they pull in everything but the kitchen sink about unrelated people in a futile and transparent effort to distract from the true criminal: Trump. I have zero respect for the slime merchants like Ted, who so obediently pass on Russian and Trumpist lies and propaganda with such ugly glee and ignorance.

 

 

Quote

Ted I could take a hour listing the behavior, action or lack of action he is guilty of...The main worry for me is his relationship with RUSSIA and Putin..I truly don't understand how a person can't see his unamerican behavior and relationships. Pelosi isn't the president of our country...I do agree there is Corruption on both parties...only one person has the power to destroy our government and Iam one that believes Trump is doing just that...Peace Bill

Quote

Hunter Biden served in the military. None of the Trumps ( or Kushner) have done so going back to Frederick Trump in Kallstadt Germany. Yet you call out Hunter Biden? Trump has chosen his completely unqualified and inexperienced family members because he values fealty over competence. He can not tolerate anyone who stands up to him and tells him when he is wrong... only self dealing sycophants survive in the administration. That is precisely why Trump is being impeached now. You say you could care less about Trump but you are consistently carrying water for him on Kruse’s page. So what is the deal? Go ahead, come out of the closet and wear your red MAGA ball cap proudly... You are not fooling anyone.

 

[YJ02]

19 hours ago, YJ02 said:

This article is based on the state of current american politics and the grinding political intolerance it is creating

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/201910/can-polarized-american-politics-find-the-middle-way?fbclid=IwAR1jtWLWc4VUpMrjkC6ZzL_-sezinyQsi1keECjzjZbSdrgWf2fw-wSpGyY

Or, just go to any page on facebook or twitter or wherever people are talking about this. join in and say something like " i didn't vote for trump" or "i dont like trump, but i think he has done a few good things. i also think the impeachment process is bad for our nation..." and see what kind of response you get.

here is one response i got after i posted a question that went "after all of this (impeachment) and the dems now saying zelensky is a trump hostage and stoolie, would any of you accept a ukrainian run investigation that did find corruption involving Hunter Biden, or would you just see it as trump forcing ukraine to fabricate the investigation results?"

responses to me directly but they were also referring to someone else as well in the thread (I am Ted btw) --- 

 

 

 

notice how no one answered my question, but just came after me for asking the question?

Seems in many segments of our society today, unless you just parrot the status quo with "impeach,impeach" then you get attacked and called a Trump supporters

same on the other side-try to point out to a trump supporter that trumps' behavior is far from presidential- or civil, and you get labeled a 'antifa c#ck sucker'

what ever happened to the notion of having  a discussion about topics without this supercharged emotion? I don't know  if Americans will ever be able to have it again.

Edited December 18, 2019 by YJ02

[iNow]

What question? Would be easier to spot the relevant bits if you’d post fewer than 29 paragraphs each time. 

[zapatos]

Perhaps if your questions came across neutral and specific rather than sounding like they are simply looking to criticize everyone who is to the left of you.

You bemoan the fact that things aren't better, but continually widen the divide yourself. Take the chip off your shoulder, the bias out of your statements, and just talk.

Edited December 18, 2019 by zapatos

[Phi for All]

13 hours ago, YJ02 said:

Seems in many segments of our society today, unless you just parrot the status quo with "impeach,impeach" then you get attacked and called a Trump supporters

same on the other side-try to point out to a trump supporter that trumps' behavior is far from presidential- or civil, and you get labeled a 'antifa c#ck sucker'

Listen, since NONE of that is happening here, you come off like a ranter intent on lashing out rather than participating in a conversation. You bring up discussions from other discussion sites like they're some kind of authority on the subject (or you're promoting that other site). Please try to engage with the very smart members we have, and perhaps leave at least some of your baggage behind when you sit down to discuss a subject with them. This is the benefit of a science discussion forum: you get reasonable people who critically think before speaking. You really should take advantage of that. Just sayin'.

[YJ02]

On 12/16/2019 at 10:38 AM, iNow said:

Where do you see this happening and what evidence do you have that it is? Is this perhaps another one of those "opinions" that you're asserting as fact?

 

12 hours ago, Phi for All said:

You bring up discussions from other discussion sites like they're some kind of authority on the subject (or you're promoting that other site).

Phi.. as you can see from the qte of iNOW,  I was just posting what he challenged me to produce. He made no qualifications of where it could come from or who. He only asked "Where do you see this happening?"

 

12 hours ago, Phi for All said:

This is the benefit of a science discussion forum: you get reasonable people who critically think before speaking.

 I have seen that here- CT, in other threads. But a good portion of what is being said in the political ones are nothing more then repeats of GOP and DEM party talking points

As for critical thinking by me. Well, CT is defined by looking at all sides of a topic, analyzing the info, then objectively forming an opinion on it.

I did that in this thread with all of my external sources of bias from both sides of the S/P spectrum. I shared my opinion, formed by looking at different sources, identifying their bias, consulting both the bias chart I and iNOW provided, and then formed an opinion I believed as objective (but of course that too is biased)

I am a trained mental health and addictions counselor, ad area where so much is based in subjectivity with a very loose adherence to a relatively small body of objective-yet ever changing- reference (like the DSM 5).  In my previous career, I have many years of experience in leading, managing and training others. One thing I have learned from all of that is that human behavior is both biased and subjective. Even when there are hard and fast -objective rules and regulations- laws, that are in place to guide and sometimes dictate acceptable behavior and processes ,that is not always the way things go.

I have learned that there are nearly always 'gray areas', non binary, in many rules, laws and procedures. And the way many people interact with the rules or behave due to them,  is also gray.  I have long since held it is best to approach everything by  viewing, if possible, both sides of a story/incident before making a judgement of my own. I have also learned that so much of what people do is motivated by their personal or organizational bias and sometimes, prejudice. 

One place that is very apparent for those who manage to disengage from political party gamesmanship, is in politics and political behavior of voters. It is also in the news media and even in the way people make the decision as to what source of news they should look at.

I realize that my worldview and way of thinking is not in congruence with many of the people here. As so many of you are either trained scientists or you process info in the same manner as scientists, my way of thinking --as I expect it to be-- is not just incongruent with some of yours, it may be utter anathema.

On 12/17/2019 at 11:24 PM, zapatos said:

You bemoan the fact that things aren't better, but continually widen the divide yourself

I am observing the divide in today's socio-political activities.

If you could provide me with an example from my posts as to what I typed that is divisive, I will do my best to present my opinions differently in the future

and, are you referring to the quoted FB posts people made to me, or OP I made here or responsive posts I made here?

thanks

On 12/17/2019 at 9:20 PM, iNow said:

What question? Would be easier to spot the relevant bits if you’d post fewer than 29 paragraphs each time. 

this one below

the one i posted above after you asked me where I had seen binary bias and hyper partisanship. i gave you a example of it from my experience on a FB thread.

none of the posters answered or attempted to answer. they only came at me with statements that had little or nothing to do with the question.

and, I believe the question to be legitimate. Let me ask you (anyone here), now, the same question re-posted below:

<<and BTW, I would look at any such investigation results from the Ukraine with a lot of skepticism, thinking that it was indeed heavily done with bias and pressure by the Trump admin>>

"after all of this (impeachment) and the dems now saying zelensky is a trump hostage and stoolie, would any of you accept a ukrainian run investigation that did find corruption involving Hunter Biden, or would you just see it as trump forcing ukraine to fabricate the investigation results?"

thanks for your time!

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, YJ02 said:

If you could provide me with an example from my posts as to what I typed that is divisive, I will do my best to present my opinions differently in the future

 

Quote

Meanwhile, to the extent that TIME magazine matters and to whom it matters to. Did TIME make the wrong choice for person of the year by selecting Thunberg-the talker, over Vague,- the actual scientist with a process that will be very impactful on the environment?

from: https://100percentfedup.com/time-chooses-angry-teen-climate-actress-for-person-of-the-year-overlooks-college-student-who-discovered-way-for-bacteria-to-eat-plastic/

You derided someone who is performing an important role and used a right-wing article to assist in her character assasination.

Quote

...the dems...

You do this a lot. Unless you are referring to ALL DEMOCRATS, you are instead using some action (or just as often, your general take on something that happened) to criticize everyone in a group. It is no more appropriate when talking about Democrats than it is when you are talking about minorities, gays, the uneducated or the poor.

Quote

...Obama...

Obama is not being impeached. He is not a witness in the impeachment, nor has he had much (if anything) to say about it. When discussing the impeachment if you find yourself mentioning Obama a lot, it is probably off topic. It is also a poor tactic for anyone to focus on "whataboutism" when defending a particular position.

You make plenty of good points and imo have a lot to contribute. I just have a hard time discussing things with you when it feels like so many of your posts have a subtle insult built into them.

[swansont]

9 hours ago, YJ02 said:

Phi.. as you can see from the qte of iNOW,  I was just posting what he challenged me to produce. He made no qualifications of where it could come from or who. He only asked "Where do you see this happening?"

!

Moderator Note

The topic here is "bias in news sources" so let's stay on-topic. If you want to discuss bias in social media opinions, open a new thread. Keep in mind that the plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence"

 

 

[iNow]

10 hours ago, YJ02 said:

would any of you accept a ukrainian run investigation that did find corruption involving Hunter Biden, or would you just see it as trump forcing ukraine to fabricate the investigation results?

It depends on the details of how it went down, but it's also off topic. Like the thread topic of bias in polls and news sources, details matter. Blanket statements are too often wrong to accept whole cloth.

[MigL]

8 hours ago, zapatos said:

You make plenty of good points and imo have a lot to contribute. I just have a hard time discussing things with you when it feels like so many of your posts have a subtle insult built into them.

Let's keep Zap's wise words regarding YJ02 in mind guys, before neg repping him to death, and forcing a new member to quit.
Diversity of opinion, and discussion of those opinions, makes us stronger.
There won't be much discussion here if it's an echo chamber where everyone left thinks the same.

I am a strong advocate of the 'carrot' approach, show him where, and if, he's going wrong in his thinking.
 Not so much of the 'stick approach, where you disparage and neg-rep him.

[dimreepr]

6 minutes ago, MigL said:

Let's keep Zap's wise words regarding YJ02 in mind guys, before neg repping him to death, and forcing a new member to quit.
Diversity of opinion, and discussion of those opinions, makes us stronger.
There won't be much discussion here if it's an echo chamber where everyone left thinks the same.

I am a strong advocate of the 'carrot' approach, show him where, and if, he's going wrong in his thinking.
 Not so much of the 'stick approach, where you disparage and neg-rep him.

Indeed, one day we will understand that polar opposites can both have a point, and we are better when we can accept that simple fact.