Attributes Along the Political Spectrum

[MigL]

Just to be a thorn in your side, John  ...

Personal Income tax was introduced in Canada in the year 1917.
IIRC our Prime Minister from 1911 to 1920 was Sir R Borden, who was a Conservative until the election of 1917, and subsequently a Unionist ( I seem to remember from High School history class ).
He not only introduced your criteria for liberalism, but also suffrage for women, in 1918.

[John Cuthber]

42 minutes ago, MigL said:

Just to be a thorn in your side, John  ...

Personal Income tax was introduced in Canada in the year 1917.
IIRC our Prime Minister from 1911 to 1920 was Sir R Borden, who was a Conservative until the election of 1917, and subsequently a Unionist ( I seem to remember from High School history class ).
He not only introduced your criteria for liberalism, but also suffrage for women, in 1918.

Define "Right" and "Left" and also "Liberal" and "Conservative".

In this context the original use of Liberal meant those who wanted liberal government spending.
That may or may not have any correlation with a view on personal liberty on matters such as marriage, suffrage etc.

[Sensei]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Personal Income tax was introduced in Canada in the year 1917.
IIRC our Prime Minister from 1911 to 1920 was Sir R Borden, who was a Conservative until the election of 1917, and subsequently a Unionist ( I seem to remember from High School history class ).
He not only introduced your criteria for liberalism, but also suffrage for women, in 1918.

The one thing that you missed is I World War. Canada mobilized 620,000 soldiers. ~ 8% of entire population. Women had to go to work to replace missing working power, when mens fought in the Europe..

[J.C.MacSwell]

23 minutes ago, Sensei said:

The one thing that you missed is I World War. Canada mobilized 620,000 soldiers. ~ 8% of entire population. Women had to go to work to replace missing working power, when mens fought in the Europe..

It was supposed to be just for the war effort...government, of course became "attached" to it, and never repealed it regardless of what Party was in power.

[Cynic]

I’m not only a gun owner, I’m an NRA certified Range Safety Officer and Instructor, NRA Distinguished Expert in 4 position smallbore and one time Virginia state champ 4 position smallbore, sharpshooter class.

I’m also an atheist since I believe in nothing supernatural, love cats and currently registered as a libertarian but having voted for D and L v. R presidents about 2:1. I hate the party system and wish it would die; I always vote for, or against, the person. I worked for 2 1/2 years after I retired at a very busy indoor shooting range. I don’t think I could begin to classify the kinds of people that came through. As some have said, there were more conservatives than liberals but beyond that, I wouldn’t know what to say, it was just a huge mix of everything you could imagine. About 1/4 of the people that came in were women. Also about 1/3 of the people that came in, on a weekly basis, were first time shooters (flagged on their electronic waivers).

Edited December 19, 2019 by Cynic

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 hour ago, Cynic said:

I’m not only a gun owner, I’m an NRA certified Range Safety Officer and Instructor, NRA Distinguished Expert in 4 position smallbore and one time Virginia state champ 4 position smallbore, sharpshooter class.

 

First time I ever shot a (real) gun was at a scout camp shooting range in Virginia, Camp Rock Enon, in 1970.

Very memorable trip with the First Niagara Scout Troop. (Canada)

 

 

 

[MigL]

1st NIAGARA Scout Troop, JC ?
Were you living in the Niagara region in 1970 ?
I would have been in Gr.7 and attending St Alfred's Catholic School in St Catharines.

Ahh, the 70s !

[J.C.MacSwell]

3 hours ago, MigL said:

1st NIAGARA Scout Troop, JC ?
Were you living in the Niagara region in 1970 ?
I would have been in Gr.7 and attending St Alfred's Catholic School in St Catharines.

Ahh, the 70s !

I lived in Niagara Falls from Fall 1868 until Early 1971, before moving back to New Brunswick. So Summer 1970 I was just coming out of grade 6 at Diamond Jubilee (on Dorchester near Lundy's Lane) and heading into grade 7 at Princess Margaret.  I also was lived in Niagara-on-the-Lake for a bit in 66/67 and did grade 3 in Parliament Oak . I've only been back to that area a couple of times when doing some work for the Shipyard (Port Weller). I knew we were around the same age.

So to pretend that's all on topic...that's where we learned we didn't fit comfortably at any one point on the political spectrum...

 

[John Cuthber]

9 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I lived in Niagara Falls from Fall 1868 until Early 1971

I congratulate you on your longevity.

Have you seen many definitions of political Left vs Right in all those years?

[J.C.MacSwell]

No doubt some dementia setting in...I can't remember whether I voted for John A. MacDonald, and his Liberal-Conservative Party, or against them...

[MigL]

17 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I knew we were around the same age

No way.
You're about a hundred years older than me.

[iNow]

Lol

[J.C.MacSwell]

29 minutes ago, MigL said:

No way.
You're about a hundred years older than me.

LOL Sorry. I don't know where I got the idea...but I thought you were 160 or so...

I blame my hundred years of elementary school education spent in Ontario schools...

Finally graduated "highest" in my class...

[John Cuthber]

Meanwhile, back at the topic...

17 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

 

Have you seen many definitions of political Left vs Right in all those years?

 

[John Cuthber]

Oh, and while I remember, this...

 

Not sure where that picture's from.
Here's the link to the video which opened the thread.
 

 

[MigL]

Sooo...

Creationism vs. Evolution defines your political ideology ?
I always thought that defined ignorance ( and possibly a little stupidity )

[iNow]

2 minutes ago, MigL said:

Creationism vs. Evolution defines your political ideology ?

Not necessarily, but it is an indicator of piety and the more pious among us tend to vote far more often with the right than the left. 

[LaurieAG]

One thing that hasn't come up in this thread yet is the individual factions within the left and right political spectrum and how they play ball with each other.

From an Australian perspective we have a left wing that has a right wing that is stronger than the right wing faction of the right wing itself. This left wing right wing faction also seems to prefer attacking its own left wing faction much more than it attacks the whole of the other right wing party. It seems that if you take the right wing and the minority interests out of the left wing parties these days you don't have that much left.

Admittedly Australia, and particularly my home state, is effectively ground zero for the news empire of Rupert Murdoch and both left and right wing governments have benefited from this over the years while no tax is paid to the public coffers.

This severe problem with left wing parties is quite apparent when you consider the election of Donald Trump in the US, Boris Johnson in the UK and Scott Morrison in Australia. Basically the right wing of the left wing parties have disenfranchised their traditional left wings (bigots and racists) and have replaced them with LGBT etc and Greens so the traditional left wing left factions have no choice but to support the lesser of 2 evils, i.e. the right wing parties who are less right wing than the right wingers of the left.

As this degradation of the left continues world wide I don't see that voting patterns will change either.

 

[zapatos]

Are Left/Right attributes similar across countries? For example in the US the Right tends to believe individuals should for the most part be responsible for their own health care (or at least they feel that way to a greater extent than the Left). Is the situation similar in Canada, Australia and Western Democracies in Europe?

[MigL]

I think that is a strictly American  attribute, Zap.
In Canada, and I believe in Europe also, every party from Conservatives to Socialists ( and all the people ) put our trust in universal medical care.
The parties are still working out the details/feasibility, but in a few years we might even have dental care and prescription drugs included.

[John Cuthber]

17 hours ago, MigL said:

Sooo...

Creationism vs. Evolution defines your political ideology ?
I always thought that defined ignorance ( and possibly a little stupidity )

No, the point raised consistently throughout that thread is that, while barking mad Republicans are ten a a penny, it seems relatively difficult to find their Democrat counterpart.

You might remember this exchange of posts in that thread

"Are you saying that this guy is not the best the republicans can come up with for this election?"
"Well, the Dems have Biden, don't they?"
"Ok, what has Biden said that was completely batshit crazy?"
"Nothing as far as I know. I"

I asked, repeatedly, in that thread for any evidence of any mainstream Lefty saying anything as profoundly dumb as the bloke who believes in dragons.
That was in 2012.

I am still waiting.

So, I have a hypothesis.

Only the political Right vote for people who are obviously clueless.

[MigL]

Stuck in the house because of COVID-19; mostly watching movies.

Just watched The Hunt.
A low budget movie, which spoofs the Political divide in the US, and takes it to extremes to make its point.
Some of these 'extremes' make the movie actually funny.
And combined with the action ( girl fight at the end ) and gore, make it quite entertaining.

If you happen to watch it, tell us whether you find it funny, sad, or embarrassing ( if you're American ).