Another Twist in the Issue of Sexual Predators

[beautyundone]

now, if we were talking about serial killers, who are pretty much already assumed to be repeat offenders, i'm sure there would be quite a different reaction.

 

so what's the difference between those and sex offenders? serial sex offenders are just as likely to repeat the crime as serial killers are.

[john5746]

No frontal attack on a problem like this will work short of total effective control of the entire human population. If they achieve this' date=' I hope that it is after I am dead. Even torturing me until I die of a heart attack is preferable to this state of affairs.

 

There has been a tremendous fight against knowing the causes of this kind of problem and dealing with it correctly. This fight has been pretty successful. No one dares talk about the frustration of the sexual impulse and the negative results of this frustration in the current atmosphere, especially anyone who has the credibility of a Ph.D. and wants to maintain any funding. This part of science has been cauterized.

 

No legislation aimed directly at this problem will work.[/quote']

 

Huh? Pangloss's example was a REPEAT OFFENDER. A good frontal attack of shooting the a-hole would have been very effective - don't you think?

[john5746]

No frontal attack on a problem like this will work short of total effective control of the entire human population. If they achieve this' date=' I hope that it is after I am dead. Even torturing me until I die of a heart attack is preferable to this state of affairs.

 

There has been a tremendous fight against knowing the causes of this kind of problem and dealing with it correctly. This fight has been pretty successful. No one dares talk about the frustration of the sexual impulse and the negative results of this frustration in the current atmosphere, especially anyone who has the credibility of a Ph.D. and wants to maintain any funding. This part of science has been cauterized.

 

No legislation aimed directly at this problem will work.[/quote']

 

Huh? Pangloss's example was a REPEAT OFFENDER. A good frontal attack of shooting the a-hole the first time would have been very effective in preventing the subsequent attacks - don't you think?

 

Edit: Sorry, my escape on the prior post didn't work.

[beautyundone]

YES

 

then WHY are you so AGAINST prosecuting them?

 

 

haha, i agree with john.

[Thomas Kirby]

now' date=' if we were talking about serial killers, who are pretty much already assumed to be repeat offenders, i'm sure there would be quite a different reaction.

 

so what's the difference between those and sex offenders? serial sex offenders are just as likely to repeat the crime as serial killers are.[/quote']

 

If we are talking about either one, exactly what are we talking about? Did it ever occur to you that these people may be living out the sick fantasies of other people? Did you ever think that, even without believing in psychic powers, that a group of humans could project so much of their own anger and self-hatred onto one person that they could make that person over in the image of their own worst nightmares?

[Thomas Kirby]

then WHY are you so AGAINST prosecuting them?

 

 

haha' date=' i agree with john.[/quote']

 

What makes you think that I am so against prosecuting serial killers or serial rapists? For that matter, what makes you think that I am against prosecuting those who I would consider rapists?

 

Prosecution does fail to solve the problem and it breeds more of them. For those who are sickened in this manner, death is not a deterrent. It is often a blessing. Extreme behavior by human beings is often a form of suicide. Sometimes it's a combination of revenge and suicide. Their view is that if people are going to continue to torture them, they might as well do something to earn that torture and at the same time maybe be killed. I'm glad I don't have to do something like that to earn my torture. All I have to do is show up at work and do my level best to do my job.

 

You know what you call two people who fight all the time and do the most personally vicious things to each other? You call them "married." Prosecutors and offenders are a typical marriage made in Hell. They need each other.

[beautyundone]

If we are talking about either one, exactly what[/i'] are we talking about? Did it ever occur to you that these people may be living out the sick fantasies of other people? Did you ever think that, even without believing in psychic powers, that a group of humans could project so much of their own anger and self-hatred onto one person that they could make that person over in the image of their own worst nightmares?

 

 

that's pretty farfetched. no one is projecting anything onto these people. and even if they were, it is still that person's choice as to whether or not they are going to act upon their thoughts. if you are trying to say "it's not their fault", you are very mistaken, my friend.

[Thomas Kirby]

that's pretty farfetched. no one is projecting anything onto these people. and even if they were, it is still that person's choice as to whether or not they are going to act upon their thoughts. if you are trying to say "it's not their fault", you are very mistaken, my friend.

 

I entirely disbelieve that contention. Too much of the energy of human society is devoted to twisting human lives to force them to do things against their will. These things are often violent, degrading, and destructive of the world as a whole. It may even be that some of the "offenders" are people who resisted until their spirits were mangled beyond recognition, until whatever might have passed for their soul is dead, their volition is in several unrecognizable pieces, and their thought processes are thoroughly screwed. They were made that way by other people. They were tormented to death by other people, then they became the worst nightmares of those people, then they became hunted and further tormented and killed. Then the people who did this to them blamed their victim. The cycle of violence was closed.

[beautyundone]

so we should just let them run freely doing whatever they please because they have been hurt by society? because they couldn't take the real world? because it's 'not their fault'?

[Thomas Kirby]

so we should just let them run freely doing whatever they please because they have been hurt by society? because they couldn't take the real world? because it's 'not their fault'?

 

We should grow up. I'm tired of trying to work with emotional five-year-olds.

[john5746]

What makes you think that I am so against prosecuting serial killers or serial rapists? For that matter' date=' what makes you think that I am against prosecuting those who I would consider rapists?

[/quote']

 

The rest of your post...

 

Prosecution does fail to solve the problem and it breeds more of them.

 

How does it breed more of them?

 

For those who are sickened in this manner' date=' death is not a deterrent. [/quote']

 

 

I agree. It prevents another attack by that one specific person.

[Thomas Kirby]

It feeds the system that makes more of them.

[Pangloss]

Well I don't agree with those who say "shoot the bastards" or whatnot.

 

But I also think it goes too far in the other way to say that nothing can be done. How do you know? Have you tried everything there is to try? I know I haven't.

 

There was a time in this country where nobody thought federal laws would ever work, either. Now we know how necessary they are, protecting us from when the law fails at the state level, and handling situations where crime extends beyond state boundaries. But plenty of ideologues refused to believe that it could ever work, and it took the deaths of half a million Americans to convince them.

 

How many children have to die to convince you that there are other possibilities, Thomas? Or will you just continue to write off anybody who tries as a "conservative"?

[john5746]

I entirely disbelieve that contention. Too much of the energy of human society is devoted to twisting human lives to force them to do things against their will. These things are often violent, degrading, and destructive of the world as a whole. It may even be that some of the "offenders" are people who resisted until their spirits were mangled beyond recognition, until whatever might have passed for their soul is dead, their volition is in several unrecognizable pieces, and their thought processes are thoroughly screwed. They were made that way by other people. They were tormented to death by other people, then they became the worst nightmares of those people, then they became hunted and further tormented and killed. Then the people who did this to them blamed their victim. The cycle of violence was closed.

 

My work sucks, I am underpaid and my dog pissed on my shoe - I think I'll go rape a child. Wrong Answer.

 

Really doesn't matter how they came to be, what matters is that they are prevented from harming others.

[john5746]

Well I don't agree with those who say "shoot the bastards" or whatnot.

 

It makes a hell of a lot more sense than invading a country to overthrow one person! I know, you don't necessarily agree with the invasion, off-topic, etc....

Hey, they can be put in a nice cell with cable TV, etc for the rest of their lives and find God - whatever, just get them away from society.

 

 

It feeds the system that makes more of them.

 

The two prevalent ideas I have heard for these 'monsters' is genetic or abuse as children. I don't see where prosecutors fit in either of those scenarios.

[Douglas]

Ignorance makes it possible to not see what is threatening to children, to see threats where there are none, and to greatly exaggerate the impact of threats that actually exist.

Kirby, I'll agree with you on this........just recently there was a thread on this forum concerning an innocent man restraining a child (innocently), resulting in him having to register as a sex offender.

 

Yes, unfortunately there *is* hysteria, which at times result in ill conceived laws and ridiculous notions like zero tolerance.

[Thomas Kirby]

My work sucks' date=' I am underpaid and my dog pissed on my shoe - I think I'll go rape a child. Wrong Answer.

 

Really doesn't matter how they came to be, what matters is that they are prevented from harming others.[/quote']

 

Wrong answer, John? You don't know the right answer, but you know which answers are wrong?

 

Pangloss: I just got through, a few messages back, saying what could be done. Neurotic fear of sex, and you might just as well say neurotic fear of life creates the problem. We have to grow up and put aside childish fears.

 

Yes, unfortunately there *is* hysteria, which at times result in ill conceived laws and ridiculous notions like zero tolerance.

 

Not only does hysteria disable any sort of real thinking, people defend it as if it were real thinking.

[Thomas Kirby]

Well I don't agree with those who say "shoot the bastards" or whatnot.

 

But I also think it goes too far in the other way to say that nothing can be done. How do you know? Have you tried everything there is to try? I know I haven't.

 

There was a time in this country where nobody thought federal laws would ever work' date=' either. Now we know how necessary they are, protecting us from when the law fails at the state level, and handling situations where crime extends beyond state boundaries. But plenty of ideologues refused to believe that it could ever work, and it took the deaths of half a million Americans to convince them.

 

How many children have to die to convince you that there are other possibilities, Thomas? Or will you just continue to write off anybody who tries as a "conservative"?[/quote']

 

How many children will have to die to convince YOU that there are other possibilities?

[beautyundone]

We should grow up. I'm tired of trying to work with emotional five-year-olds.

 

if you were calling me an emotional five-year-old, i'll have you know that i'm an only-slightly-emotional sixteen-year-old that happens to want a career prosecuting criminals such as those mentioned here.

 

and how are we supposed to have non-emotional five-year-olds if we continue to say "it's okay, it's not your fault, it's society's fault. stealing the cookie was not of your own will. it was because so many people were casting their cookie-stealing thoughts upon you. shame on society... they should know better. now you eat that cookie and enjoy it." that just breeds wimps and idiots, not people with brains.

 

criminals should be prosecuted. they did something that THEY know was against the law. it doesn't matter how many people "influenced" them, they did it on their own. are you prepared to say that it was society's fault that jessica lunsford (sp?) was kidnapped and raped by a convicted sex offender who had been released onto the streets to continue to offend? or that it was society's fault that ted bundy killed and raped over a dozen women (around 18, i believe) while being a prestigious law school student and someone everybody liked and treated with respect? the poor thing just couldn't handle being liked, i suppose. think about what you're saying, and realize how ridiculous it is.

[beautyundone]

How many children will have to die to convince YOU that there are other possibilities?

 

other possibilities such as... not prosecuting sex offenders anymore? grand idea.

[Pangloss]

Pangloss: I just got through' date=' a few messages back, saying what could be done. Neurotic fear of sex, and you might just as well say neurotic fear of life creates the problem. We have to grow up and put aside childish fears.

[/quote']

 

But as we just discussed and you agreed, the danger to children exists even if you eliminate the issue of sexual preferences and definitions, and focus solely on violence.

 

So I ask you again, how do you know nothing further can be done? Are you so convinced that every law is so perfect in its execution, so unflawed and pristine in its manner of preventing and dealing with violence, that no further laws will ever be necessary?

 

Is there nothing further that can be done to protect children from violent acts? Must we ignore thousands of cases exactly like Jessica Lunsford's, solely because of your two stated reasons:

 

1) It's not as big as other problems.

2) It's really a hidden agenda to legislate morality from the far right.

 

Really? Are you sure?

[beautyundone]

Reported sexual assault statistics give a small insight into how problematic assault is in the United States, but only 16 percent of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police, according to the 1992 study “Rape in America: a Report to the Nation.” Using this figure, it means that of the 97,460 reported 1995 sexual assault statistics of rape, at a 16 percent reporting rate, in actuality 649,733 rapes occurred in the U.S. An FBI Uniform Crime Report in 1990 found reported sexual assault statistics to be just one tenth the number of rapes that actually occur, estimating up to 10 times more go unreported, and even higher for acquaintance sexual assaults.

 

Though some people question sexual assault statistics for including false reports of rape, there is approximately just a two to three percent rate of false rape reports, which is consistent with other crimes. In eight percent of reports, investigators or prosecutors deemed the case not prosecutable for some reason, which is different than a false report.

 

source: http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/criminal_law/sexual_assault/statistics.html

 

 

in my opinion, 2-3% is a small price to pay for the other 97%

[Thomas Kirby]

if you were calling me an emotional five-year-old, i'll have you know that i'm an only-slightly-emotional sixteen-year-old that happens to want a career prosecuting criminals such as those mentioned here.

 

I didn't insult you personally, just most of the population of this planet.

[beautyundone]

I didn't insult you personally, just most of the population of this planet.

 

i could say similar things about men in general. but i'm sure there are SOME respectable ones on this board, so i won't offend them by doing so.

 

all generalizations are bad =)

[MetaFrizzics]

Part of the strategy of the rich and powerful is to keep people's time and energy tied up with petty crime and sexual hangups, while they actually rape the planet and enslave whole nations on a grand scale.

 

The three largest industries are Guns (the military-industrial complex), Drugs (Clandestine govt involvement in mafias to engage in racial warfare), and Prostitution (a giant male dominated conspiracy to degrade and dominate others as a cultural choice).

 

Until people stop buying the b.s. from these monsters who run everything, we're all just going round in circles.