Is this war with Iran?

[J.C.MacSwell]

7 minutes ago, rangerx said:

Indeed they should and of course, imminent threats command special attention.

 

That said, though we know Soleimani is a bad guy, imminence is yet to be disclosed.

Good governance provides for that, if not arranged prior to the undertaking but near immediate after execution to follow up.

I want to see hard evidence of imminence. You'd think if they had it, they be blowing their horns at a deafening db.

And I'm talking about a tangible conspiracy and paper trail against the USA, not some amateur appointee's opinion.

The argument, which if true is a solid one, is that doing so would put their intelligence sources at risk, and expose their methods of collecting it.

[iNow]

37 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Unless they are responding to imminent threats...and even then the "gang of eight" should be notified, should they not?

They should, yes. And do you know what Trump said about why he didn’t notify them? He said democrats couldn’t be trusted not to tell the enemy about the plans... that he had to keep it hidden from them due, in essence, to their predilection for treason. .

[J.C.MacSwell]

Just now, iNow said:

They should, yes. And do you know what Trump said about why he didn’t notify them? He said democrats couldn’t be trusted not to tell the enemy about the plans... that he had to keep it hidden from them due, in essence, to their predilection for treason. .

Trump gotta Trump...

[MigL]

FAA has already issued no fly orders to US flagged carriers in the area.
I suspect the area will be under full flight suspension by tomorrow.

Reports of F-35 strike fighters departing al-Dhafra AFB in the UAE not too long ago.
Could just be air cover, not necessarily strike missions.

[zapatos]

I feel this was a pretty smart move by Iran. We made a direct, in-your-face, significant attack which they would have felt required a significant response.

At the same time, they seem to be saying "now let's let it go and get back to our normal way of doing things".

Ball is in our court.

Can Trump accept the proposal and possibly see this crisis end? Will he not accept because it would be bad for his base? Will he not accept because he is a megalomaniac?

Personally I hope we don't respond in kind, but I don't know if that is something Trump will be able to do. He already drew a red line by saying he'd hit 52 sites in Iran if they hit us, which they clearly did, and he ripped Obama previously for drawing a red line and not enforcing it.

[Moontanman]

7 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I feel this was a pretty smart move by Iran. We made a direct, in-your-face, significant attack which they would have felt required a significant response.

At the same time, they seem to be saying "now let's let it go and get back to our normal way of doing things".

Ball is in our court.

Can Trump accept the proposal and possibly see this crisis end? Will he not accept because it would be bad for his base? Will he not accept because he is a megalomaniac?

Personally I hope we don't respond in kind, but I don't know if that is something Trump will be able to do. He already drew a red line by saying he'd hit 52 sites in Iran if they hit us, which they clearly did, and he ripped Obama previously for drawing a red line and not enforcing it.

How is a second attack "now lets go back to normal"? 

[zapatos]

6 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

How is a second attack "now lets go back to normal"? 

What was the "second" attack?

Edit: Or rather, what are you saying was the first attack.

Edited January 8, 2020 by zapatos

[iNow]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

The president is scheduled to address the nation sometime tonight.

For whatever reason(s), he cancelled it.

[Moontanman]

2 minutes ago, zapatos said:

What was the "second" attack?

Edit: Or rather, what are you saying was the first attack.

A second flight of Missiles was launched about an hour ago to the US air bases...  

[MigL]

You may be right Zap.

I haven't read any reports of American casualties.
After all the bluster of the Iranians threatening American targets ( and D Trump properties ), and D Trump threatening Iranian civil and cultural sites, this seems a very limited response ( most likely ).
Or maybe they haven't assessed/reported casualties yet.
Or maybe the Iranian military is that incompetent ( second most likely ).

Could be they are trying to 'save face' by issuing a response, but at the same time, limiting it so that the US can ignore it, and they can both retire to their neutral corners.

[zapatos]

Just now, Moontanman said:

A second flight of Missiles was launched about an hour ago to the US air bases...  

What did I miss? They launched missiles at two bases. Anything else?

[Moontanman]

1 minute ago, zapatos said:

What did I miss? They launched missiles at two bases. Anything else?

So far they have launched two flights of missiles according to MSNBC. The fist one was launched earlier today and in the middle of talking about that attack they said another flight has been launched. Should have hit by now.. 

I think I'll go watch some TV before the EMP knocks out the power grid... 

[zapatos]

3 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

So far they have launched two flights of missiles according to MSNBC. The fist one was launched earlier today and in the middle of talking about that attack they said another flight has been launched. Should have hit by now.. 

As-Asad and Erbil are all I know about. I get the feeling the attack on those two sites was their "proportional" response to our killing of Soleimani.

[Moontanman]

Just now, zapatos said:

As-Asad and Erbil are all I know about. I get the feeling the attack on those two sites was their "proportional" response to our killing of Soleimani.

MSNBC was talking about how those two bases had been attacked when they cut away to announce yet another wave of missiles had been launched... 

[zapatos]

8 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

MSNBC was talking about how those two bases had been attacked when they cut away to announce yet another wave of missiles had been launched... 

Let us know when they announce what the result was.

[Raider5678]

40 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

MSNBC was talking about how those two bases had been attacked when they cut away to announce yet another wave of missiles had been launched... 

I saw about that third wave of missiles on at least 3 different news sites as well, yet I cannot find a single instance of it now.

[MigL]

Reports of a Ukrainian Airlines 737 crash in Tehran.
180 passengers on board.

Statements released uncharacteristically quick say it was due to technical issues.

given the timing this raises questions.
Or is it simply more bad news for Boeing ?
( not trying to be callous about the loss of lives )

Edited January 8, 2020 by MigL

[iNow]

10 minutes ago, MigL said:

given the timing this raises questions.

Probably best to assume unfortunate coincidence at this point. 

[MigL]

On a related note, one of the other forums I belong to, had a thread going about the missile strikes, and there were several screen shots of all commercial flights in the Iraq/Iran area along with satellite photos of the airbases.
That thread was suspended for a bit, and has now disappeared altogether.

Am I becoming a conspiracy theorist ?

[iNow]

Being sensitive and attentive to global oddities... curious when things change seemingly without good reason or explanation... is not itself suggestive of conspiracy thinking, but in this world where truth itself is under attack... where “leaders” regularly ask “who ya gonna believe... me, or your own lying eyes?” it’s unsurprising that even the most rational minds and critical thinkers begin to speculate and take marginal thoughts more seriously. 

Tbe world ain’t flat. Trump ain’t controlled by lizard people from the planet Gramouke. The rest, however, is apparently up for debate and question. 

[CharonY]

I haven't seen reports of a third wave at this point, but Iranians claim that their attacks were a proportionate response and further aggression will only be initiated if the US attacks  first.

[rangerx]

6 hours ago, MigL said:

Reports of a Ukrainian Airlines 737 crash in Tehran.
180 passengers on board.

63 from Canada

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-ukraine-air-crash-canadians-tehran-1.5418610?fbclid=IwAR0tbaUXV0Ge3mWP2zYPbeZ7ZFkjRGR1qKzpEFxn00Ci_uuA7ISO2Im-Yk0

 

[Moontanman]

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

Let us know when they announce what the result was.

I think they must have misreported, they never did talk about a second attack again but kept referring to waves of missiles... 

[J.C.MacSwell]

10 hours ago, zapatos said:

I feel this was a pretty smart move by Iran. We made a direct, in-your-face, significant attack which they would have felt required a significant response.

At the same time, they seem to be saying "now let's let it go and get back to our normal way of doing things".

Ball is in our court.

Can Trump accept the proposal and possibly see this crisis end? Will he not accept because it would be bad for his base? Will he not accept because he is a megalomaniac?

Personally I hope we don't respond in kind, but I don't know if that is something Trump will be able to do. He already drew a red line by saying he'd hit 52 sites in Iran if they hit us, which they clearly did, and he ripped Obama previously for drawing a red line and not enforcing it.

I hope you are right, what you hope for happens.

Trump does seem to be more affected by casualties...and having taken out Soleimani and being generally unpredictable...who knows, maybe he can revert to economic pressure tactics for now.

Sad about the plane crash. I hope it was a mechanical failure as originally suggested, and not related to some military error.

[iNow]

Following MigLs conspiracy thinking comment, my brain started wondering if the plane was taken down by Russian using cybertech... The rabbit hole goes deep. Let's all work together not to let these unsupported speculations overwhelm our reason and rationality. And remember... the lizard men did it!