Is this war with Iran?

[MigL]

Do you fly, Rangerx ?
I'm more into the military hardware than the commercial side.
But you seem quite knowledgeable regarding commercial instrument flying.

[rangerx]

2 minutes ago, MigL said:

Do you fly, Rangerx ?
I'm more into the military hardware than the commercial side.
But you seem quite knowledgeable regarding commercial instrument flying.

Yes, since 1995. Only endorsed for VFR single engine, no tail draggers (yet), low hours.

I fly a lot of VOR/IFR/ILS in the sim though and do a lot of 3D model/reskin and advanced simulations.

I'm just doing the flight plan for the Ukraine flight as we speak. I grabbed the texture too and tweaked the ID's to the scenario.

Just getting clearance from ground to push from Stand 118 as Flight 752 for taxi to Runway 29R. Six and a half hours late.

BRB...

[MigL]

Neat !

[rangerx]

Okay, this is interesting.

Near straight out departure. Everything set according to the plan for departure except one thing. I set the autopilot 8000 instead of the assigned flight level.

That way both engines drop to idle at the last known point of flight. In a steep climb out shortly after takeoff,  it will stall quickly. (so long as you don't disengage and put the nose down like a good pilot would)

Ok, takeoff roll normal, vr, rotate, climb, gear, atc transition (listening), flaps, request flight following, got squawk 0167, (6200ft) acknowledged radar contact (6800 ft) Engines idled, wings stalled under 2 seconds. Crashed 10 miles from the airport.

I was set to 1200, so I expect ATC saw me.

I will try it again on takeoff, with the transponder set at something else.

BRB

Ran the scenario a couple of times. A little quicker on the draw with ATC, managed the squawk from 5400 to 5900ft.  It's a simulator, it didn't mind the transponder in the off position. ATC carried on as usual. I turned it on and entered the code. Acknowledged ATC.

Requested post takeoff checklist from second officer, but didn't get to start. I'm not sure, but expect transition would be shortly thereafter... around 8500, so they didn't get that far. You never (or at least not supposed to) respond to ATC without doing checklists first. The black box and CVR, if serviceable will have that data.

This was a "Sully" moment for the pilots, except with parts of the plane missing and who knows what else. Seems they tried none the less. Heroic, really.

In the hypothetical, if it were a transponder issue, it probably occurred or was already failed to TX, on the ground and missed in the pre-flight checks. Entry error or no signal would be borne out after take off when they ID the new squawk code. If the SAM was expecting 1200 someone got an itchy finger?

Scary thought.


 

[John Cuthber]

8 hours ago, rangerx said:

A misreported squawk code would make them 50% at fault.

If 50% of aircraft with the wrong codes get shot down.

[MigL]

Using that logic...
Since missiles don't have 100% kill ratio, it wasn't just the missile that brought the plane down.
 

[John Cuthber]

20 hours ago, MigL said:

Using that logic...
Since missiles don't have 100% kill ratio, it wasn't just the missile that brought the plane down.
 

The logic is that you can't say it's 50% without further data.
It doesn't say much else.

 

 

If a hunter mistakenly shoots a man because he thinks he's a bear, is it the bear's fault, the victim's fault or the man who didn't make sure before he pulled the trigger's fault?

 

On 1/15/2020 at 12:32 AM, MigL said:

 

If the Iranian missile radar interrogates only on mode 2, and receives no reply; what is the operator to do ?
Further, he tries to contact his superior, but unreliable Iranian comm. systems make it impossible; what is the operator to do ?
He only has 5 -8 seconds to make up his mind; what is he to do ?

Let's be clear about this; before you do something that may kill a lot of innocent civilians, you should put a lot of care into verifying ID.

If you don't have the data on which to make that decision, you don't shoot.

Shooting "blind" is not acceptable.

[MigL]

There shouldn't.
But there is, including a large amount of 'friendly fire' incidents.
Obviously neither you, nor I, have ever been to war.

[John Cuthber]

If the proximate cause is "the fog of war"- and I accept that's plausible, then the root cause is "some bastard started a war".

There are essentially two suspects for that.
Both are saying how wonderful it is.