Ghideon Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) The new picture above contains current, I and magnetic field, B. The wire is not attached to anything. So I guess that the wire will be pushed away from the source of magnetic fields B. The picture does not apply to the lifter in earlier drawings. 42 minutes ago, DandelionTheory said: *Bong toke* I do not know what that is, does it affect one's ability to make sense or learn physics? Edited January 25, 2020 by Ghideon 1
DandelionTheory Posted January 25, 2020 Author Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ghideon said: I do not know what that is, does it affect one's ability to make sense or learn physics? It means you don't have to uphold an image to be correct. I do not have to be a certain way to find truth or play with physics. The current is the hinge. You don't think it applies why? Because you don't want it to? Hinge has attached parts to a fulcrum, the magnetic fields are attached. In the updated version of the machine design I make the internal angles smaller thereby making it a concave parallelogram. -DandelionTheory Edited January 25, 2020 by DandelionTheory
Ghideon Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, DandelionTheory said: The current is the hinge. You don't think it applies why? A hinge, to me, implies a foldable structure. Applying a force will affect the shape of the structure. Your triangular design is geometrically stable. 2 hours ago, Ghideon said: We look at the big picture. You have your lifter in the box and it is able to propel itself up, OK? Then replace the lifter with a person. The person pushes his hands against the top of the box, from the inside. From the outside there is no difference, so the internal forces on the box will make it lift and accelerate. Does this sound plausible? Then apply that reasoning (iteratively if you wish) layer by layer through the internals of the system, applying physical laws and formulas as you go, mechanics, electrics, magnetics, down to quantum level if necessary. Always there will be a force and a counter force similar to the person in the box, but applied to smaller and smaller parts of the structure. There will never be a level where the total forces don't add. If there is a net force on some level, that means that there are forces (vectors) that were neglected. It looks like you missed the above. Can you provide a detailed analysis why and how you agree or disagree?
DandelionTheory Posted January 25, 2020 Author Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ghideon said: A hinge, to me, implies a foldable structure. Applying a force will affect the shape of the structure. I agree, but you only need to push off a surface not hold it. Once it's been pushed off of the action is done. 2 hours ago, Ghideon said: It looks like you missed the above. Can you provide a detailed analysis why and how you agree or disagree? I agree, but what's a rail gun? If you don't know, the rails fly away from each other while propelling the armature in one direction. The recoil isn't the opposite of the force on the armature. If a wire with a 90° bend in it has current running through it, the current, not the wire, will experience force... From itself. So it depends on how you "push" on the box. If you are current and you run along 3 edges of the box, your magnetic field you generate will do work on you as you make a 90° turn. Your magnetic field pushes on you. Edited January 25, 2020 by DandelionTheory
Ghideon Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DandelionTheory said: I agree, but what's a rail gun? If you don't know, the rails fly away from each other while propelling the armature in one direction. The recoil isn't the opposite of the force on the armature. Wrong 1 hour ago, DandelionTheory said: If a wire with a 90° bend in it has current running through it, the current, not the wire, will experience force... From itself. Incorrect in this context. If the "current" (electrons) experience a force and not held back by a force from the wire then the electrons will accelerate while the wire remains stationary. 1 hour ago, DandelionTheory said: So it depends on how you "push" on the box. If you are current and you run along 3 edges of the box, your magnetic field you generate will do work on you as you make a 90° turn. Your magnetic field pushes on you. You are effetely saying that if three persons are in the box instead of the lifter, and the persons push at correct angles, then the box will lift off the ground. Where did you learn this stuff? Do you have a reference I may look at? Edited January 25, 2020 by Ghideon
DandelionTheory Posted January 25, 2020 Author Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Ghideon said: Do you have a reference I may look at? http://web.mit.edu/mouser/www/railgun/physics.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampère's_force_law https://isaacphysics.org/concepts/cp_lorentz_force Good enough yet? Current experiences force at right angles to the perpendicular magnetic field it's in. Edited January 25, 2020 by DandelionTheory
Ghideon Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, DandelionTheory said: Good enough yet? Current experiences force at right angles to the perpendicular magnetic field it's in. Sources are pretty good. Unfortunately they do not support your claims. Nowhere is it stated that Newtons laws are optional. You need to apply the concepts in the sources together with other laws to be able to make a prediction. For instance, first source states that: Quote Intuitively, if the slug were just a piece of straight wire, no amount of current through that wire would cause it to move anywhere in the absence of external fields. In the actual system, where the slug is under the influence of large magnetic fields, it can still be shown that the slug current won't move the slug. It's a simple matter of momentum conservation. If the slug moves itself, then momentum has been created from nothing. http://web.mit.edu/mouser/www/railgun/physics.html That is another way to state what you are attempting. And if you weld this unmoving slug into the barrel of the railgun, the railgun will not be able to propel itself. Edited January 25, 2020 by Ghideon
DandelionTheory Posted January 25, 2020 Author Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Ghideon said: That is another way to state what you are attempting. Lol. The rails bro. Add the rails and they press on each other direcly away from each other and the slug because of the angle of interaction(you know, because of sin theta in the lorentz force). The magnetic field only points it, the current moving does the work. You still don't get it's a 3 body solve with rotation to a 2 body problem. 53 minutes ago, Ghideon said: Intuitively, if the slug were just a piece of straight wire, no amount of current through that wire would cause it to move anywhere in the absence of external fields External fields means it's not one person. If 2 equal masses are attached by a long non-rigid wire on equally opposite sides of an explosive, and I was holding the middle of the wire as far from them as possible without pulling. When the explosive goes off both masses will fly away at equal magnitudes while pulling me towards the explosion. If more energy is in the momentum of the masses after propelling me forward they would pull the wire to it's tensile limit and either brake or return with spring force, maybe even collide if conditions are right. I guess it depends on if I can let go of the wire. So would a Delta t variable be viable? "The result is a magnetic field between the two rails (B = 2x(u0/2pi)x(I/r)) and an intercepting field by the armature. The rails repel one another (F = u0I1I2L/2piR) and they both repel the armature (F = ILB). Since rails are both fixed the net result is a propulsive force on the armature, which will be accelerated forward by electromagnetic means (A=ILB/M)." From http://www.powerlabs.org/railgun.htm If a positive particle came into contact with 2 magnetic fields intersecting, the particle would be forced to sin theta and the magnetic fields would spin in place. Edited January 25, 2020 by DandelionTheory
DandelionTheory Posted January 25, 2020 Author Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) I simply state you can have the magnetic fields "hit each others tips" so they don't spin all the way around. It's because the B fields rotate about their axis to point toward the opposite sign and currents have a round magnetic field that make straight magnetic fields turn towards the opposite sign first before the center of gravity of the magnetic fields are affected. Edited January 25, 2020 by DandelionTheory
Strange Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, DandelionTheory said: Lol. The rails bro. Add the rails and they press on each other direcly away from each other and the slug because of the angle of interaction(you know, because of sin theta in the lorentz force). The magnetic field only points it, the current moving does the work. You still don't get it's a 3 body solve with rotation to a 2 body problem. ! Moderator Note That is not how a rail gun works (the rails form a cold and generate a force along the barrel, which propels the projectile; and there is obviously an equal and opposite reaction force back along the length of the barrel). With this and your other comments, you appear to have gone from asking for help to asserting a number of things that are not supported by the mathematics or physics. This thread is closed. Feel free to ask questions in the appropriate section. But keep any claims that contradict physics to the Speculations forum.
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