Lorentz force at right angles.

[DandelionTheory]

I need some help with the calculus involved with current at right angles from itself. The picture shows a basic scenario where the calculation would apply, and a wire setup (fig5) to attempt to convey the next step.

-DandelionTheory

Edited January 23, 2020 by DandelionTheory

[Ghideon]

There is an E-field (vector), 45 kV, in the picture. Is that to be taken into account?

[DandelionTheory]

On 1/25/2020 at 12:03 PM, Ghideon said:

There is an E-field (vector), 45 kV, in the picture. Is that to be taken into account?

I'm attempting to show the E field is towards the positive pole, which would depend on where the cycle is. If some parts are closed off while some opened up this would show how to move charged air from one place to another with low power. Sort of like a "charged air turbine". If you've seen the eye of horas the lash bit is usually lower to provide a Venturi effect to the left and be compressed out the right. Do you need a diagram?

Edited January 31, 2020 by DandelionTheory

[Ghideon]

I also not that there is no B vector in image 5. Is that intended?

3 hours ago, DandelionTheory said:

Do you need a diagram?

Yes that would be good.

 

[DandelionTheory]

[Ghideon]

Thanks. In principle an acceleration of charged particles would generate some small amount of thrust. So if the device would work as in the picture, accelerating charged particles down the device would be pushed upwards by some force. But I suspect the force will be very small. 

14 hours ago, DandelionTheory said:

charged air

How is the air charged? 

[DandelionTheory]

8 hours ago, Ghideon said:

How is the air charged? 

Dielectric breakdown in the 30kv/in range, it's in the math. I did not mention the math involved for dielectric breakdown, but at a potential difference of 30kv with an air gap of 1in the wiki says that's about as far as you need to get a spark in air at 1 atm and no turbulence. Assuming the term "range" I just used satisfies the idea more potential would need to be compensated for turbulence in the air gap. So I set it to 45kv.

How fast could it charge the air would be a more appropriate question, and the speed of rotation in the cycle depends on the strength of the uniform B field into or out of the paper.

Edited February 1, 2020 by DandelionTheory

[Ghideon]

5 hours ago, DandelionTheory said:

Dielectric breakdown in the 30kv/in range, it's in the math. I did not mention the math involved for dielectric breakdown, but at a potential difference of 30kv with an air gap of 1in the wiki says that's about as far as you need to get a spark in air at 1 atm and no turbulence. Assuming the term "range" I just used satisfies the idea more potential would need to be compensated for turbulence in the air gap. So I set it to 45kv.

How fast could it charge the air would be a more appropriate question, and the speed of rotation in the cycle depends on the strength of the uniform B field into or out of the paper.

Thanks. I found some interesting info* about the Biefeld-Brown Effect and Corona Wind Phenomena that I'll try to read later. Probably not connected to the idea above, but interesting. I've seen videoclips of small levitating devices** but not bothered to check the basic principles behind it. 

Back to the original problem

On 1/23/2020 at 12:49 PM, DandelionTheory said:

need some help with the calculus involved with current at right angles from itself.

Can we get a simplified view of just the parameters involved in the calculation you need help with? The original sketch give an idea but I have trouble seeing which current(s) you want to take into account. 

 

*) Referenced paper(s) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion-propelled_aircraft and a list of different propulsion concepts
**) One was an Myth Busters episode