Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 12, 2020 Author Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) I am sorry but you lost me, you stated before it was not possible in our current QM. Now it seems your stating it is possible. from my understanding this value is changing and bringing us closer to a true vacuum state under 1 Edited February 13, 2020 by Bmpbmp1975
Mordred Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 Ok fair enough this is actually where the English lanquage gets confusing with certain models. An absolute true vacuum is one devoid of all particles including those due to quantum fluctuations. The zero point energy states that this state is impossible as quantum fluctuations always occur. Now with False vacuum inflation or the Higgs field the true vacuum is the lowest possible state which will always be of a positive energy density. It's not a true vacuum but rather the lowest possible vacuum state depending on what fields are used to describe that particular vacuum.
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) Again I am confused so basically we are currently sitting in a true vacuum this states we are on the verge of vacuum collapse Edited February 13, 2020 by Bmpbmp1975
Mordred Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 Well the Higgs field as far as we know is in a true vacuum state for the Higgs field. However where you are sitting wouldn't be a true vacuum. Let's assume your at 1 atmosphere of pressure is there a vacuum ? The vacuum is subject to how you define it. Under classical definition you and I are not in a true vacuum. Under certain QFT treatments how one defines a true vacuum depends on the fields being examined.
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Mordred said: Well the Higgs field as far as we know is in a true vacuum state for the Higgs field. However where you are sitting wouldn't be a true vacuum. Let's assume your at 1 atmosphere of pressure is there a vacuum ? The vacuum is subject to how you define it. Under classical definition you and I are not in a true vacuum. Under certain QFT treatments how one defines a true vacuum depends on the fields being examined. So we are currently looking at a possible vacuum collapse happening at any time Edited February 13, 2020 by Bmpbmp1975
Mordred Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) No it is viable for the Higgs field to be in a lower state however there is no supportive evidence that it is going to occur now or in the future. That would be where new physics research comes into play in something as of yet undiscovered such as another symmetry breaking leading to a new family of particles I don't think your grasping one essential detail there is more than one type of vacuum. You need to be more specific as to which vacuum your discussing. Edited February 13, 2020 by Mordred
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) i am talking vacuum collapse that will destroy the universe I am still confused with the science, this state has recently changed of the Higgs a true vacuum. So clearly something caused it to change recently. Edited February 13, 2020 by Bmpbmp1975
Mordred Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 I wouldn't call 18.75 billion years ago roughly as recent were talking a change that occurred roughly [math]10^{-32}[/math] after the BB for electroweak symmetry breaking.
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) Yes but at our current state now we are sitting at a vacuum collapse happening at any time now in our lifetime Edited February 13, 2020 by Bmpbmp1975
Mordred Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 Nope the universe wouldn't cool down enough in either of our lifetimes.
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Mordred said: Nope the universe wouldn't cool down enough in either of our lifetimes. I don’t understand exactly , can you please explain why it won’t happen in our lifetimes according to Katie Mack it can? what do you mean cool down enough? The cooling has nothing to do with vacuum collapse it is all due to the state of Higgs bosin Edited February 13, 2020 by Bmpbmp1975
Mordred Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) The process is called thermal equilibrium when dealing as to the when particles symmetry break ie drop out of thermal equibrium. For example the Higgs boson could not drop out of equilibrium unless the universe black body temperature drops below a certain temperature. They decouple from equilibrium with the temperature in relation to the total energy/mass of the particle. ( Obviously the Boson family applies to when the fields decouple) Another Higgs decoupling would require different mass value Higgs bosons than the SM model Higgs bosons. Edited February 13, 2020 by Mordred
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 I see, the only thing is the works of katie Mack say otherwise and I am not sure where your thermal equilibrium has anything to do with the vacuum collapse or the universe falling into a true vacuum state below a constant
MigL Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 In modern Physics, the 'vacuum' has potential energy. This energy is responsible for virtual particles, and their many interactions. Think of this vacuum potential as a cliff, with one or more ledges down its face. The Big Bang event would have been the summit, or top, of the cliff. Dropping down the cliff drops you to a lower ledge, or energy state, of the vacuum. The last time this happened, as Mordred has explained, was 10^-32 secs after the Big Bang event. The universe dropped to a lower ledge ( and inflated exponentially ); this resulted in a symmetry break and the separation of the Electromagnetic force from the Weak force. Simultaneously, he Higgs interaction gave rise to invariant ( rest ) mass for certain fermions and bosons that interact with the Higgs field. Now, at the present time, we are not aware of any ledges further down the cliff. We may already be at the lowest possible ( ground ) level. But this level still has an energy value, and we know this because Quantum Mechanics works. If there are further lower ledges and another symmetry break causes a drop, you don't need to worry. You won't feel a thing.
Mordred Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 See Chronology of the universe in particular the Very early universe in particular " These phase transitions in the universe's fundamental forces are believed to be caused by a phenomenon of quantum fields called "symmetry breaking". In everyday terms, as the universe cools, it becomes possible for the quantum fields that create the forces and particles around us, to settle at lower energy levels and with higher levels of stability. In doing so, they completely shift how they interact. Forces and interactions arise due to these fields, so the universe can behave very differently above and below a phase transition. For example, in a later epoch, a side effect of one phase transition is that suddenly, many particles that had no mass at all acquire a mass (they begin to interact differently with the Higgs field), and a single force begins to manifest as two separate forces." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe I know you won't understand the related mathematics not unless your familiar with the Bose Einstein and Fermi Dirac statistics for Bosons and Fermions.
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 Not sure what the last 2 posts have to do with Katie Mack’s theory of vacuum collpaset
Mordred Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 Take too long to explain if you can't see the basic principles of symmetry breaking with regards to the Higgs field. 1
MigL Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 If you want to know what the above posts by Mordred and I, have to do with Katie Mack and vacuum collapse, I suggest you go to her Wiki page. Just Google 'Katie Mack, astrophycisist'. Scroll down to the heading 'Research ad Career', where you will find her fields of interest to be Dark Matter Vacuum Decay Cosmic Evolution/Re-ionization Epoch Primordial Black Holes Cosmic Microwave Background I assume you are interested in the second, 'Vacuum Decay' ( not collapse ), so if you click on the blue hypertab, it takes you to a new Wiki page 'False Vacuum', which aside from some speculative aspects, details the same things Mordred and I posted above. Read it, try to understand it, and if you have any questions, come back ad ask. ( or did you want me to do that for you also ? )
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, MigL said: If you want to know what the above posts by Mordred and I, have to do with Katie Mack and vacuum collapse, I suggest you go to her Wiki page. Just Google 'Katie Mack, astrophycisist'. Scroll down to the heading 'Research ad Career', where you will find her fields of interest to be Dark Matter Vacuum Decay Cosmic Evolution/Re-ionization Epoch Primordial Black Holes Cosmic Microwave Background I assume you are interested in the second, 'Vacuum Decay' ( not collapse ), so if you click on the blue hypertab, it takes you to a new Wiki page 'False Vacuum', which aside from some speculative aspects, details the same things Mordred and I posted above. Read it, try to understand it, and if you have any questions, come back ad ask. ( or did you want me to do that for you also ? ) I have read it and it is happening soon from what I read?
MigL Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) The fact that something has a very slim possibility, but current observations/theories dictate against it, does not mean 'happening soon'. IOW only IF we are in a false vacuum state is there a remote possibility. Forget Cosmology for now; work on your reading comprehension. Edited February 13, 2020 by MigL
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, MigL said: The fact that something has a very slim possibility, but current observations/theories dictate against it, does not mean 'happening soon'. IOW only IF we are in a false vacuum state is there a remote possibility. Forget Cosmology for now; work on your reading comprehension. Not sure what you mean by slim possibility and are we not in a false vacuum state now? Edited February 13, 2020 by Bmpbmp1975
MigL Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) Slim possibility = NOT happening soon. What makes you think we are in a false vacuum state ? I think you lied and you haven't read the Wiki page on 'false vacuum'. Come back when you have... Edited February 13, 2020 by MigL 1
Strange Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Bmpbmp1975 said: I have read it and it is happening soon from what I read? There is no reason to think it will happen soon. There is very little reason to think it will ever happen. So clearly you have not understood what you have read.
Bmpbmp1975 Posted February 13, 2020 Author Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) I apologize there are so many answers and all seem to be different so having trouble grasping it all also this article implies the actual cosmo constant has changed also which confuses some of the answers here 73.8 ± 1.1 km/s/Mpc according to this new measurement. How much does that increase Lambda (cosmo-constant) looks like it was by 5 http://www.physics.org/article-questions.asp?id=103 then this article below talks about the universe colder a very low levels which what was said above will not happen anytime soon https://physicsworld.com/a/the-enduring-enigma-of-the-cosmic-cold-spot/ Edited February 13, 2020 by Bmpbmp1975
Dagl1 Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 @Bmpbmp1975 I think an important thing for you to realise is that A. Scientists, even experts in their respective fields, can be wrong. Don't take their word for gospel. Even if they had brilliant insights at other times. B. Science functions by repeated measurements, improving measurements and verifying measurements in different ways. The methodology will be different or we have looked at a different part of space, or there are flawed assumptions. We have several hypotheses for most things but new evidence will change our way of looking at each individual 'problem'. We continuously find new things and discard old things. There MAY be changes of the constants, but since this would be quite unusual, we should also look at other explanations. And one always need a lot of evidence. I think you will find this video interesting (below), specifically 9:50 -15:00. C. Science-explanations and the actual science can be different and difficult to interpret (not always good to just believe whichever metaphor or analogy people use). D. Some articles are flawed. Maybe they made mistakes or lied. -Dagl Edit:
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