Help Me To Find The ''Cure'' For Hair Loss

[sonictemples]

Hello, sorry if this isn't the appropriate place to post this but I need help.

First of all, I am not a biochemist, but I need one. You guys are superheroes, I hope we can make this work!

I've been into researching male pattern hair loss for nearly a decade now,, I have a good enough understanding of the steps of it, the most major one being the overproduction of the DHT on the scalp tissue and the prostaglandin respond it creates.

There's a very promising in-vitro study with zinc, b6 and azelaic acid. This has been formulated into a DIY topical called Zix 20 years ago and it works fairly well as a natural product. That being said, the in-vitro studies has shown that these substances blocked 80 to 100 per cent of the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme (the enzyme which transforms testosterone into DHT).

I think, if we can get all the contents into the cells in the roncentrations can help us to achieve a possibly very potent antiandrogen, with minimal side effects since it will break down into natural substances systematically in very small blood concentrations.

This is the study I am mentioning: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3207614

Can anybody help me to reformulate the topical with an effective way to deliver these content into the cells?

I have a fair understanding of hair loss mechanism but I lack the information to apply these findings into practicality since I am not a biochemist. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not going to sell this, I will make the formula accessible for free, so hopefully we have a strong weapon to halt hair loss naturally, free and practically dirt-cheap.

I need all the help I can get, please help me out. You guys are awesome!

[Phi for All]

What if this is an evolutionary advantage? We don't need the hair for warmth much anymore. It takes up resources to maintain. It can be a hygiene issue. Some studies show men who're completely bald are seen as stronger, bigger, more confident, and more intelligent, so a lack is not necessarily a selection issue. 

I'm curious why you don't think any of this is being done already, other than the fact that there's no viable product. Curing male pattern baldness would be the greatest discovery since instant erections. Maybe even more popular, since the results are more visible. 

[sonictemples]

Balding men aren't necessarily strronger, bigger etc. We as balding men have androgen receptors that work in a different manner, that might be just on our scalp or other parts as well. What I am trying to do is to inhibit the conversion of testosterone to DHT on the scalp without making it systemic.

Zinc Sulfate-B6's active form-Azelaic acid seems to do it completely in vitro studies, but here's the catch. They don't do it when they are alone, all three together is needed. So if we can make them delievered through a carrier that is enough to get them in cell (pyrithione seems to be one), it is very possible that they can inhibit all the scalp DHT, preventing apoptosis while not letting estrogen dominate when free testosterone is higher in tissue because zinc depletes copper therefore aromatase.

Also these 3 ingredients won't cause side effects due to them not being together anymore, I just need to find a way to deliver them in target cells without much distruptiın.

 

I also want to add that I am just 20 and have a very good understanding of the process despite my age, if I live for an average 50-80 years more (hopefully) I am a hundred percent confident that I can find a ''cure'' in my lifetime. No people started as young as me and was as ambitious as me. All I need is  helping hand for me to make these get inside of the cells. 

People either block systemic DHT or even attempt suicide just becuase of hair loss, I want to change it. Please help this young person out.

[iNow]

To be frank, recommend you focus less on biology and more on psychology here. Acceptance is the only “cure”

[sonictemples]

So you are saying to me that I should put away 7 years of hard work? I don't care if I go bald or not, however, if people attemp suicide because of that, it's my enemy. 

I worked hard until this day and I WILL continue to work hard for the rest of my life, if you don't want to help me, thanks okay, just don't say anything.

Edited March 28, 2020 by sonictemples

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, sonictemples said:

Balding men aren't necessarily strronger, bigger etc.

I didn't say anything about balding men. I said some studies show men who were completely bald were perceived as bigger, stronger, smarter, and more confident. Personally, I think the perception of confidence is an amalgam of the other three attributes anyway. Otherwise, how does a person with less of anything seem bigger?

2 hours ago, sonictemples said:

Zinc Sulfate-B6's active form-Azelaic acid seems to do it completely in vitro studies, but here's the catch. They don't do it when they are alone, all three together is needed. So if we can make them delievered through a carrier that is enough to get them in cell (pyrithione seems to be one), it is very possible that they can inhibit all the scalp DHT, preventing apoptosis while not letting estrogen dominate when free testosterone is higher in tissue because zinc depletes copper therefore aromatase.

Also these 3 ingredients won't cause side effects due to them not being together anymore, I just need to find a way to deliver them in target cells without much distruptiın.

What are the closest studies you've found? 

3 hours ago, sonictemples said:

I also want to add that I am just 20 and have a very good understanding of the process despite my age, if I live for an average 50-80 years more (hopefully) I am a hundred percent confident that I can find a ''cure'' in my lifetime. No people started as young as me and was as ambitious as me. All I need is  helping hand for me to make these get inside of the cells. 

I too feel an urge to put the word "cure" in quotes, mostly because I don't consider MPB a disease. I also realize how easy it is for hair-headed me to downplay the importance of having it. 

Why aren't you studying biochemistry formally if it's this important to you? Even if you want to make this available to everyone free of charge, and don't want to study biochem, you should be studying business or law to ensure your wishes are carried out. 

Being young and ambitious makes you seem bigger, stronger, and smarter to me. 

2 hours ago, sonictemples said:

So you are saying to me that I should put away 7 years of hard work?

You've been working on a cure for male pattern baldness since you were 13?

2 hours ago, sonictemples said:

I don't care if I go bald or not, however, if people attemp suicide because of that, it's my enemy. 

It's a good reason to want to help. Have you contacted a university or private lab to see if there might be a place for you on their research team? They might have the carrier method you're looking for.

[Endy0816]

If you search for bald monkeys and apes you'll see plenty of evidence for it being part of normal development.

Not to say you can't want to change it based on cultural beliefs, but the fact that you are fighting your own biology is something to keep in mind.

 

[sonictemples]

59 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I didn't say anything about balding men. I said some studies show men who were completely bald were perceived as bigger, stronger, smarter, and more confident. Personally, I think the perception of confidence is an amalgam of the other three attributes anyway. Otherwise, how does a person with less of anything seem bigger?

What are the closest studies you've found? 

I too feel an urge to put the word "cure" in quotes, mostly because I don't consider MPB a disease. I also realize how easy it is for hair-headed me to downplay the importance of having it. 

Why aren't you studying biochemistry formally if it's this important to you? Even if you want to make this available to everyone free of charge, and don't want to study biochem, you should be studying business or law to ensure your wishes are carried out. 

Being young and ambitious makes you seem bigger, stronger, and smarter to me. 

You've been working on a cure for male pattern baldness since you were 13?

It's a good reason to want to help. Have you contacted a university or private lab to see if there might be a place for you on their research team? They might have the carrier method you're looking for.

Thanks for your kind words, yes I have been into the mechanism of balding and its treatments since the age of 13, I don't know how but at worst I can formulate something, patent it so companies can't overprice it, launch a company, produce it and sell it will little to no-profit so I don't go bankrupt.

AaI am always fascinated by biologists and biochemists, so maybe why I took the hair thing a little too far. I have an already good-enough going career as a 20 year-old too. 

 

And I do understand that there are way important things going on such as COVID-19 and cancer. Most of the companies don't even fund already-existing compounds because they are unpatentable.

 

Again, thanks for your kind words, hopefully I can help humanity in a slightest bit, and if I do, it's worth my entire life. Have a good day.

33 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

If you search for bald monkeys and apes you'll see plenty of evidence for it being part of normal development.

Not to say you can't want to change it based on cultural beliefs, but the fact that you are fighting your own biology is something to keep in mind.

 

Yes, it's a natural process but is very dependent on the immune system and it's basically fighting with your own body as you stated.

However it makes a huge part of a man's (or woman's) confidence, hence my passion to fix it as in the healthiest way as I can possibly can. People take prostate drugs to keep their hair, if I can benefit them in the slightest, I am fully in.

You guys are very kind by the way, thanks for taking your time to reply to me. 

[Phi for All]

4 minutes ago, sonictemples said:

And I do understand that there are way important things going on such as COVID-19 and cancer. Most of the companies don't even fund already-existing compounds because they are unpatentable.

I don't think it's a very strong argument to claim other things are more important. There are always enough of us and enough resources to do many things at once, and you never know where important discoveries will come from, but it's a good bet they'll come from those with the fullest understanding of the subject.

The government funds a great deal of research that isn't profitable, but becomes the cornerstone for other research that is. Perhaps a .gov search would help.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, sonictemples said:

it makes a huge part of a man's (or woman's) confidence

Then I recommend they’re deriving their confidence from the wrong source.

You’re not Samson, after all. 

[StringJunky]

13 hours ago, iNow said:

Then I recommend they’re deriving their confidence from the wrong source.

You’re not Samson, after all. 

I think it's human nature to blame something about oneself that can't be changed for ones lack of progress in some aspect. I gave my deafness more weight than it deserved, in hindsight.

Edited March 29, 2020 by StringJunky

[Dagl1]

So you want a way to get stuff into cells, which cells? Also since you have a good understanding of how hair growth works, mind explaining it in detail (I don't have the faintest clue but I am quite curious)? Could you link the (some) studies that provide support for your working hypothesis as well, those may be nice to read as well?

Thanks!

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

I think it's human nature to blame something about oneself that can't be changed for ones lack of progress in some aspect. I gave my deafness more weight than it deserved, in hindsight.

I think it's easier to be happy when we realize who we are is not about how we look, or how our bodies work, or the things we possess. It's also easier to say that than to stop blaming a perceived lack for our unhappiness. This modern society places too much emphasis on competition, where it's easy to judge others based on their bodies, when our real strengths lie in cooperation, where none of that really matters. 

[sonictemples]

5 hours ago, Dagl1 said:

So you want a way to get stuff into cells, which cells? Also since you have a good understanding of how hair growth works, mind explaining it in detail (I don't have the faintest clue but I am quite curious)? Could you link the (some) studies that provide support for your working hypothesis as well, those may be nice to read as well?

Thanks!

I would personally target the derma papilla cells since it's where it all starts. Maybe on the sebaceous glands as well. 

https://cdn2.shopify.com/s/files/1/0028/2935/3030/files/Fer-_Inhibition_of_5a-reductase_activity_in_human_skin_by_zinc_and_azelaic_acid.pdf

This is the study, what part of the hair growth interests you? I would like to explain as best as I can.

5 hours ago, StringJunky said:

I think it's human nature to blame something about oneself that can't be changed for ones lack of progress in some aspect. I gave my deafness more weight than it deserved, in hindsight.

I agree but nevertheless it's a problem and should be fixed. Thanks for your input

Just now, sonictemples said:

I would personally target the derma papilla cells since it's where it all starts. Maybe on the sebaceous glands as well. 

https://cdn2.shopify.com/s/files/1/0028/2935/3030/files/Fer-_Inhibition_of_5a-reductase_activity_in_human_skin_by_zinc_and_azelaic_acid.pdf

This is the study, what part of the hair growth interests you? I would like to explain as best as I can.

 

2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

I think it's easier to be happy when we realize who we are is not about how we look, or how our bodies work, or the things we possess. It's also easier to say that than to stop blaming a perceived lack for our unhappiness. This modern society places too much emphasis on competition, where it's easy to judge others based on their bodies, when our real strengths lie in cooperation, where none of that really matters. 

I totally agree, thank you. You are a nice person.

[Dagl1]

1 hour ago, sonictemples said:

I would personally target the derma papilla cells since it's where it all starts. Maybe on the sebaceous glands as well. 

I study/have studies biology, so just interested in the general mechanisms and links you might know of, it is also a question to test your knowledge. Is inhibition of 5a-reductase the only thing needed to initiate hair growth again? Aren't there many underlying epigenetic changes that will also be involved? How will you change those. 
For getting stuff into the cells, you probably need to get through the dead epidermis layer, then find a non-toxic way of delivering substances through the lipid layers, maybe you can look into topical drug delivery? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6637104/ Things like this?

[sonictemples]

1 hour ago, Dagl1 said:

I study/have studies biology, so just interested in the general mechanisms and links you might know of, it is also a question to test your knowledge. Is inhibition of 5a-reductase the only thing needed to initiate hair growth again? Aren't there many underlying epigenetic changes that will also be involved? How will you change those. 
For getting stuff into the cells, you probably need to get through the dead epidermis layer, then find a non-toxic way of delivering substances through the lipid layers, maybe you can look into topical drug delivery? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6637104/ Things like this?

I believe that having a good prostaglandin balance (low pgd2, high pge2) is necessary, also a way to activate the wnt/beta catenin pathway would be a good start (via stimulators and dkk-1). that's what samumed is doing right now. I am going to give DMSO  a shot, that being said I've heard that pyrithione carries zinc inside of the cell, is it possible to utilize that with zinc sulfate which is the one       has androgen inhibiting effects.

And, again when I say ''cure'' I claim it to be maintenance and not full regrowth. That might be possible but dangerous for any random person to do due to the risk of cancer. We are really trying to stop apoptosis which keeps cancer cells in check, I am sure you are more informed on that than I do.

[Voorhis]

On 3/28/2020 at 12:32 PM, sonictemples said:

Also these 3 ingredients won't cause side effects due to them not being together anymore, I just need to find a way to deliver them in target cells without much distruptiın.

 

 

Have you considered trying a liposomal vehicle? Those are the fad the pharma companies are going through right now for a lot of their topical treatments. I'd imagine it would be difficult to do at home, but maybe you could get your local pharmacy to compound something like that for you. I think you probably will have to use the azelaic acid separately, however.

[aba]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:06 PM, iNow said:

To be frank, recommend you focus less on biology and more on psychology here. Acceptance is the only “cure”

 

Use 1000 mg of vitamin C daily Prevents hair loss. I found it effective on myself.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, aba said:

Use 1000 mg of vitamin C daily Prevents hair loss. I found it effective on myself.

Nonsense. you may as well pour honey into your socks to grow more hair on your head

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, aba said:

 

Use 1000 mg of vitamin C daily Prevents hair loss. I found it effective on myself.

!

Moderator Note

Please do not post unsubstantiated claims of such nature. While high dosages of Vitamin C are not necessarily harmful (due to high water solubility), such high dosages are associated with a number of potential side effects, such as nausea.

 

[MigL]

Male pttern baldness is related to testosterone levels

https://skinkraft.com/blogs/articles/testosterone-hair-loss

Maybe that's your problem with confidence and women.

Incidentally, I have a full head of hair, and I'm fighting off women as we speak.
( Ha, I wish, but I do have nice hair, a little gray, but nice  )