Hydroalcoholic disinfectant from refineries

[Enthalpy]

Hello you all,

The World Health Organization published a recipe for a disinfecting hydroalcoholic mixture
who.int (I saw it in English too)
and refineries could produce it the big way. It's not exactly a gel, but the function is the same.

• Ethanol can be obtained without delay from water and from ethylene, abundant in refineries.
• Glycerine is a by-product of palm oil processing, especially to make biodiesel. Some refineries or companies do both.
• I understand pasteurization can replace hydrogen peroxide. If not, produce it.
• Water is available in many countries.

Equipment existing at refineries must be too dirty, so new one must be added on the fly. It needs no new engineering, and specialized companies can produce it quickly.

Governments must address the risk of transformation into drinks with unusual flexibility and reactivity.

Marc Schaefer, aka Enthalpy

[PhilGeis]

Not that simple.  In US, FDA policy is controlling https://www.fda.gov/media/136118/download

among other challenges, pasteurization can NOT replace hydrogen peroxide.  H2O2 is intended to address contamination  by heat-resistant, spore-forming bacteria.  Ethanol and glycerine have to be of quality  and please note WHO and FDA specify water quality - not a trivial consideration for water or for manufacturing system hygiene - https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/infection-control-and-hospital-epidemiology/article/outbreak-of-burkholderia-cepacia-bacteremia-traced-to-contaminated-hospital-water-used-for-dilution-of-an-alcohol-skin-antiseptic/15AAB.3A9306E02D9DE9B2434EDDEA5CD

Edited April 4, 2020 by PhilGeis

[John Cuthber]

If your drinking water does not meet the specification of being "pretty much devoid of pathogens" the coronavirus is not actually your big problem.

 

[CharonY]

20 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

"pretty much devoid of pathogens"

I guess it depends on how many bacteria we count as pretty devoid (and probably also types of bacteria).

[PhilGeis]

tap water always includes pseudomonads - burden being a function of residual chlorine.

[John Cuthber]

On 4/5/2020 at 9:43 PM, CharonY said:

I guess it depends on how many bacteria we count as pretty devoid (and probably also types of bacteria).

I used the word "pathogens" for a reason.

On 4/6/2020 at 12:56 AM, PhilGeis said:

tap water always includes pseudomonads - burden being a function of residual chlorine.

So, what you are saying is that if there are significant (i.e. pathogenic) numbers of them, it's because the chlorination process is inadequate and you have a problem.

I can spend my day indoors with very little exposure to coronavirus.
I can't avoid drinking water.

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

I used the word "pathogens" for a reason.

I was more thinking in terms of infectious doses. In most water supplies you will be able to count and sometimes cultivate microbes. Typically the standards are set high enough that infections are unlikely, but to my mind it is not the same as pretty much devoid. I will concede that it is a matter of semantics. However, there is ongoing discussions regarding standards (and lack thereof) as well as limitation of detection methods of pathogens in drinking water. As a whole while it is assumed that the water treatment processes yield safe water but studies continue to find pathogens especially protozoa which can cause occasional infections. Cysts are resistant to chlorination and require physical treatment to be removed. Connected to that, the source water is also important and how it is treated prior to disinfection, and there are some claims by environmental engineer that pathogen testing is not exhaustive enough.

[druS]

On Australia there have been some interesting initiatives to help fill the hand sanitiser gell. One boutique  distiller (Archie Rose) has swappedx to ethanol and geared up to produce sanitiser. Similar scenario in some of the grape/wine areas where grapes have been tainted by smoke form the fires and are not usable for producing wine.

They are interesting feel good stories,  ut to be frank, I still cant obtain any hand sanitiser when I shop.

[PhilGeis]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:19 PM, John Cuthber said:

I used the word "pathogens" for a reason.

So, what you are saying is that if there are significant (i.e. pathogenic) numbers of them, it's because the chlorination process is inadequate and you have a problem.

I can spend my day indoors with very little exposure to coronavirus.
I can't avoid drinking water.

No John.  Although treated water is not sterile, bacteria in drinking water are large from the distribution system.

[CharonY]

From what I read, parasites are also a bit of a problem. There was the famous case where someone infected themselves with Naegleria fowleri by nasal irrigation with tap water. Normally the low concentrations are fine when consumed, but the nose allowed penetration via the nasal mucosa and they entered the brain via the olfactory nerves.

[PhilGeis]

Charon's cite - https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/60/8/e36/2462908

 

Water quality is critical in any context - even 70% alcohol.  https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/infection-control-and-hospital-epidemiology/article/outbreak-of-burkholderia-cepacia-bacteremia-traced-to-contaminated-hospital-water-used-for-dilution-of-an-alcohol-skin-antiseptic/15AAB3A9306E02D9DE9B2434EDDEA5CD

[Enthalpy]

Meanwhile, such mixtures are available in German supermarkets in litre quantity. They avoid all expressions like "hydroalcoholic gel" and sell like "hand sanitizer" or similar. The added perfume may prevent the misuse for drinks, propanol too.

The ones I saw contain mainly ethanol, about a fourth propanol, some water. That would be obtained naturally from the C₂+C₃ flux at a refinery.

[PhilGeis]

btw - Pasteurization does not replace hydrogen peroxide in WHO recipe and isopropanol not propanol is the alternative sanitizing agent.  

FDA and WHO recommend against additions irrelevant to sanitizer objective - perfume, aloe, essential oils etc..