dimreepr Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 41 minutes ago, Kartazion said: Why do you want to wait for God's intervention? Isn't it men who do? and badly? Depends who you ask: 1
teroko Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Kartazion said: I do not understand. Why do you want to wait for God's intervention? Isn't it men who do? and badly? No, diseases, calamities and catastrofes ever existed in the planet even before the existence of humans.
Strange Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, teroko said: No, diseases, calamities and catastrofes ever existed in the planet even before the existence of humans. Tell that to the dinosaurs.
Casio Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, teroko said: No, diseases, calamities and catastrofes ever existed in the planet even before the existence of humans. They would have been there but not imbalanced to the extent they are now. Humans were not the first life on the planet.
Kartazion Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, teroko said: No, diseases, calamities and catastrofes ever existed in the planet even before the existence of humans. Okay. You therefore wish divine intervention to stop disasters and illnesses.
dimreepr Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Casio said: They would have been there but not imbalanced to the extent they are now. Humans were not the first life on the planet. First life that mattered...
teroko Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Kartazion said: Okay. You therefore wish divine intervention to stop disasters and illnesses. Right. That's the point.
iNow Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 This quick 4-minute video speaks well to the idea of god intervening....
Strange Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 37 minutes ago, teroko said: Right. That's the point. She, he, they have never bothered before. It is almost as if they don't exist. No, hang on, that's not right. It is exactly as if they don't exist.
teroko Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Strange said: She, he, they have never bothered before. It is almost as if they don't exist. No, hang on, that's not right. It is exactly as if they don't exist. The first step to solve a problem is to recognize it exists. This is the purpose of this thread. To point out a problem. Consider the following: All kind of deseaes, calamities and catastrophes existed over the planet ever, even before the existence of humans. Assuming God exists, my reflection is that God must be in troubles because if not he would have already solved everything and long time ago. Then I conclude, the problem is God in troubles and I ask, could we humans, do something about? The answer returns us to the first post: "One thing is true, if there is a God with a creation he must have a way to perceive it, may be through our own eyes and ears. So God could observe us and may be someone could imagine something useful for God to solve the things. Every thing we could solve here could help God solve something there. May be God could guide our intuition to something..." It would be up to each one to try to find out the specific problem and point out a solution. If that would be the right one, it would be just a matter of time for everything be finally solved. If wrong, it would at least be useful to inspire someone else to find the right one what would be also just a matter of time... Edited April 8, 2020 by teroko
Strange Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 1 minute ago, teroko said: "One thing is true, if there is a God with a creation he must have a way to perceive it, may be through our own eyes and ears. So God could observe us and may be someone could imagine something useful for God to solve the things. Every thing we could solve here could help God solve something there. May be God could guide our intuition to something..." Why would you think, or even hope, that a god or gods are going to solve these problems now if they have never bothered in the past. Quote Assuming God exists Why? Why not take the rational approach: assuming gods don't exist (or, equivalently, don't care about what happens) then it is up to us the solve the problems. No one is going to do it for us.
teroko Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Strange said: Why would you think, or even hope, that a god or gods are going to solve these problems now if they have never bothered in the past. Is not He/They not bothered in the past, they are in troubles and can't do what must be done. That's my approach. 8 minutes ago, Strange said: Why not take the rational approach: assuming gods don't exist (or, equivalently, don't care about what happens) then it is up to us the solve the problems. No one is going to do it for us. We are not able to solve those problems. All the deseases, calamities and catastrophes ever existing. Is up to God solve them. And if He/They would be in troubles may be could give a help on this. May be we could do this. That's my hope... Edited April 8, 2020 by teroko
Strange Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 30 minutes ago, teroko said: We are not able to solve those problems. All the deseases, calamities and catastrophes ever existing. Is up to God solve them. And if He/They would be in troubles may be could give a help on this. May be we could do this. That's my hope... You can hope for that. But it is a waste of time.
Casio Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 42 minutes ago, teroko said: Is not He/They not bothered in the past, they are in troubles and can't do what must be done. That's my approach. We are not able to solve those problems. All the deseases, calamities and catastrophes ever existing. Is up to God solve them. And if He/They would be in troubles may be could give a help on this. May be we could do this. That's my hope... My understanding from past research completed over the years understood that God is not ignorant to what is going on, at the beginning of human life Satan was to have supposedly said to God that mankind will only ever turn to you when they want something, like a type of selfish desire. Does that not sum up the human race? However there are some areas I don't profess to understand. Job from the bible was supposed to be the best imperfect model of a man we had and every test Satan put upon him he past. It is said that Jesus was sent to "balance" the scales of life that we lost. I'm to understand that imperfect man cannot balance the scales so that God will not communicate with mankind except through his written word the bible. It is also said that God has set a time for putting things right, but that time is not recorded so we don't actually know when it is. it is also said that it does not matter that much what man thinks because he is imperfect, but that what he holds true in his heart that God can read without your permission.
Phi for All Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, teroko said: All the deseases, calamities and catastrophes ever existing. Is up to God solve them. Maybe the real problem is that you're looking to "solve" these things when your god really wants you to figure out the best ways to "adapt" to them, figure out how to deal with them. If we all thought like you, nobody would be working on curing today's diseases. They'd be waiting for their gods to do it.
Sensei Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) "diseases" are yet other life forms... Human beings think about themselves as superior to any other life forms.. While in the reality majority of life are single cell microorganisms.. If somebody would like to spread life to the entire Universe, should eject billions of billions of bacteria into cosmic space.. After millions or billions of years, one or a few lucky one survivors, would reach extraterrestrial appropriate environment and after a few next billions of years would evolve to millions of higher level multicellular life forms, perhaps intelligent one.. and repeat cycle once again.. Why God cannot get rid of "diseases"? Because the all higher level microorganisms, including human beings, relies on existence of single cellular life forms! Edited April 8, 2020 by Sensei
teroko Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Phi for All said: Maybe the real problem is that you're looking to "solve" these things when your god really wants you to figure out the best ways to "adapt" to them, figure out how to deal with them. If we all thought like you, nobody would be working on curing today's diseases. They'd be waiting for their gods to do it. It could be done in the free time as I did all my life while working in a health company. If more think like me more would be the chances to get the right result on the aproach. 3 minutes ago, Sensei said: "diseases" are yet other life forms… God would make the things in the way all kind of life would live together without damaging other ones. Edited April 8, 2020 by teroko
Phi for All Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 1 minute ago, teroko said: It could be done in the free time as I did all my life while working in a health company. If more think like me more would be the chances to get the right result on the aproach. I thought you wanted your god to fix diseases and calamities and catastrophes. You have confused me.
teroko Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Phi for All said: I thought you wanted your god to fix diseases and calamities and catastrophes. You have confused me. I work in both directions. Where is the confusión?
Sensei Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, teroko said: God would make the things in the way all kind of life would live together without damaging other ones. You know it is not true. One life form relies on other life form. There is fixed *) quantity of Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen and Hydrogen atoms, which are building blocks of the all organic molecules. And they are transferred one way or another from one life form to another. *) new one created in fusion, fission, radioactive decay etc. Edited April 8, 2020 by Sensei
teroko Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Sensei said: You know it is not true. One life form relies on other life form. There is fixed quantity of Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen and Hydrogen atoms, which are building blocks of the all organic molecules. And they are transferred one way or another from one life form to another. One thing is how things are, other thing is how they should be. I don't want to go beyond the scope of the thread but just to figure out how a God could change everything is may be altering slightly some physics parameters' values. Everything would be different. Nature would be different. But to intervent in the Physics of the Universe is something that only a God could do. Current parametrs' values could be not the ideal ones for an ideal kind of life… That points out a possible problem in the Physics of the Universe of course... Edited April 8, 2020 by teroko
Strange Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 56 minutes ago, teroko said: One thing is how things are, other thing is how they should be. Correction: There is how things are and how you want them to be. 57 minutes ago, teroko said: That points out a possible problem in the Physics of the Universe of course... Or that you are looking for excuses for the things people do. 5 hours ago, teroko said: No, diseases, calamities and catastrofes ever existed in the planet even before the existence of humans. You still haven't acknowledged this is very obviously wrong. There were diseases of animals and plants before humans existed. There were natural calamities and catastrophes (are these different things?) such massive volcanoes that destroyed life over large areas, meteors hitting the Earth, etc., before humans existed. There were calamities and catastrophes caused by other living things before humans arrived (such as the oxygen catastrophe). So it would be nice if you acknowledged that this stamens of your was not just wrong but nonsensical.
MigL Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 When I was younger, I used to read Conan the Barbarian. A fictional character created by R E Howard, whose deity was the God, Crom. I will never forget Conan's one belief... "Crom helps those who help themselves." and I wish more people would insert their God in the above saying. 1
teroko Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 55 minutes ago, Strange said: You still haven't acknowledged this is very obviously wrong. There were diseases of animals and plants before humans existed. There were natural calamities and catastrophes (are these different things?) such massive volcanoes that destroyed life over large areas, meteors hitting the Earth, etc., before humans existed. There were calamities and catastrophes caused by other living things before humans arrived (such as the oxygen catastrophe). So it would be nice if you acknowledged that this stamens of your was not just wrong but nonsensical. I totally agree with this! Is you that didn't see the comma after the "No" I posted!
Strange Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 1 minute ago, teroko said: I totally agree with this! Is you that didn't see the comma after the "No" I posted! I apologise. Maybe a language problem? When you said "ever existed" did you mean "always existed"?
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