Trump Connection to Hydroxychloroquine (split from Corona virus general questions mega thread)

[iNow]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Don't listen to Trump. She still goes by that...

<rimshot> I'm in town all week, folks 

[MigL]

Even French President E Macron is calling for expedited trials of Hydroxychloroquine ( in combination with antibiotic Azythromycin ) after discussions with a French scientist who champions its use, D Raoult, as a 'cure'.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/macron-calls-for-clinical-trials-of-controversial-coronavirus-cure/ar-BB12HAEi?ocid=msedgntp

Apparently the treatment/cure is also being pushed by J Bolsonaro.

Yet D Trump ( however ignorant/misguided ) is the only one being accused of trying to profit, and having monetary interests, in the treatment.
Do all three have large amounts invested in this product, or, is it a case of only seeing ( vilifying ) what we want to see ?

[John Cuthber]

3 minutes ago, MigL said:

Even French President E Macron is calling for expedited trials of Hydroxychloroquine

But Trump thinks he already knows the answer.

That's why he's getting roasted (along with his financial interest)

[MigL]

34 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

But Trump thinks he already knows the answer.

So does D Raoult, the French scientist that President E Macron has placed his faith in.

[CharonY]

7 minutes ago, MigL said:

So does D Raoult, the French scientist that President E Macron has placed his faith in.

There is a difference between let's conduct a trial to see if it works vs. "just ask your doctor to take it. I think it works." One is following procedure and creating scientific evidence. The other one is pushing gut feeling.

[MigL]

D Raoult has conducted trials...

"After two studies involving 24 and 80 patients, Raoult presented Macron with a third study carried out on 1,061 patients, but with no control group, of whom he claimed 973 were cured in 10 days. Experts said the lack of a control group meant the results were meaningless."

And D Raoult is convinced he has a 'cure'...

“I don’t care what others think,” he told his local newspaper La Provence. “I’m not an outsider, I’m the one who is the furthest ahead.”

[iNow]

I've never heard of D Raoult. I have heard of D Trump... in fact, can't seem to get away from him...

[J.C.MacSwell]

19 minutes ago, iNow said:

I've never heard of D Raoult. I have heard of D Trump... in fact, can't seem to get away from him...

You spelled "enough of" wrong...(I kid, I kid) 

Edited April 16, 2020 by J.C.MacSwell

[StringJunky]

4 hours ago, MigL said:

D Raoult has conducted trials...

"After two studies involving 24 and 80 patients, Raoult presented Macron with a third study carried out on 1,061 patients, but with no control group, of whom he claimed 973 were cured in 10 days. Experts said the lack of a control group meant the results were meaningless."

And D Raoult is convinced he has a 'cure'...

“I don’t care what others think,” he told his local newspaper La Provence. “I’m not an outsider, I’m the one who is the furthest ahead.”

From what I've just read about him on an organic chemist's blog, he would appear be what Trump would be like if he was a microbiologist i.e no different.

[iNow]

27 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

You spelled "enough of" wrong...(I kid, I kid)

If he gets any closer, he’ll need an NDA or at least to send me a hush money payment (or both!)

[J.C.MacSwell]

24 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

From what I've just read about him on an organic chemist's blog, he would appear be what Trump would be like if he was a microbiologist i.e no different.

Sounds like an individual who just might come up with something that could benefit society. Never underestimate these people.

Also don't hire them to positions of authority...

[CharonY]

8 hours ago, MigL said:

D Raoult has conducted trials...

"After two studies involving 24 and 80 patients, Raoult presented Macron with a third study carried out on 1,061 patients, but with no control group, of whom he claimed 973 were cured in 10 days. Experts said the lack of a control group meant the results were meaningless."

And D Raoult is convinced he has a 'cure'...

“I don’t care what others think,” he told his local newspaper La Provence. “I’m not an outsider, I’m the one who is the furthest ahead.”

Oh yeah, I think that is the follow-up to a follow-up (the second by Molina study showed no beneficial effects). But critically, the study was more set up like a case or observational study rather than a efficacy test. At this point the data looks inconclusive to me. 

[hypervalent_iodine]

52 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Oh yeah, I think that is the follow-up to a follow-up (the second by Molina study showed no beneficial effects). But critically, the study was more set up like a case or observational study rather than a efficacy test. At this point the data looks inconclusive to me. 

Inconclusive is one way of putting it. Their first paper with was highly suspect and contained a lot of concerning ethical elements. Their follow ups don't seem to add very much, and is at odds with a lot of the other data that has been published regarding HCQ. Derek Lowe's coverage on it has been quite informative: 

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/16/more-small-molecule-clinical-data-against-covid-19-as-of-april-16

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/11/the-latest-hydroxychloroquine-data-as-of-april-11

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/29/more-on-cloroquine-azithromycin-and-on-dr-raoult 

[CharonY]

Oh sure, the studies do not really support the claims. What I meant is that it is not strong enough to outright dismiss it, either. I.e. I think it is to early to scrap it, but I suspect better data will come form some of trials with other therapeutics which are randomized and have actual controls.

[John Cuthber]

19 hours ago, MigL said:

D Raoult has conducted trials...

"After two studies involving 24 and 80 patients, Raoult presented Macron with a third study carried out on 1,061 patients, but with no control group, of whom he claimed 973 were cured in 10 days. Experts said the lack of a control group meant the results were meaningless."

The experts are right.
But the anecdotal  evidence is interesting.

The cost (in whatever terms) of doing the trial isn't high.
The potential benefits are large.

So it's worth doing the test.

The costs of what Trump is suggesting are much higher.

The benefits (if there are any) are similar.

That's the difference between the two approaches.

One is reasonable, the other reckless.
 

[MigL]

23 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

But Trump thinks he already knows the answer.

That's why he's getting roasted (along with his financial interest)

And he should be, as the current trials ( including Raoult's ) are inconclusive.

But why aren't E Macron and J Bolsonaro ?
( other than the fact that D Trump is everyone's favorite whipping boy )

[CharonY]

Macron is getting some flak from it, but at least he is referring to a scientist whose data may not be great but has otherwise a good reputation. If Fauci was pushing it and Trump being in support, it would probably also look different. Folks outside of Brazil have pretty much given up on Bolsonaro. He has not the same impact on the Western world so they do not bother roasting him, I suppose.

[John Cuthber]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

And he should be, as the current trials ( including Raoult's ) are inconclusive.

But why aren't E Macron and J Bolsonaro ?

Why would someone get roasted for asking if we can check if something is true as Macorn is doing?

[MigL]

Because he 'appears' to be supporting the on-line petitioners who want wider distribution of the treatment.

"Macron’s closed-door visit to Raoult’s hospital on Thursday came after an online petition calling for wider distribution of the treatment appeared to be drawing support across France."

from

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/macron-calls-for-clinical-trials-of-controversial-coronavirus-cure/ar-BB12HAEi?ocid=msedgntp

[PhilGeis]

On 4/8/2020 at 9:04 AM, koti said:

Heres some more „bias” for you to read:

https://www.google.pl/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/not-for-sale-anger-in-germany-at-report-trump-seeking-exclusive-coronavirus-vaccine-deal

As with all the biased claims of Trump and therapy/vaccine.  This too is BS.  Who cares what allegedly angers Germans?

[Strange]

35 minutes ago, PhilGeis said:

As with all the biased claims of Trump and therapy/vaccine.  This too is BS.  Who cares what allegedly angers Germans?

The story was confirmed by the German government. Maybe you need to get your "BS meter" checked.

The issues was not "what angers Germans". That is just an attempt to deflect the argument.

It is almost as if you are biased.

[koti]

1 hour ago, PhilGeis said:

As with all the biased claims of Trump and therapy/vaccine.  This too is BS.  Who cares what allegedly angers Germans?

I know its hard to believe, I was sceptical too but this is true:

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-confirms-that-donald-trump-tried-to-buy-firm-working-on-coronavirus-vaccine/

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-germany-covid-19-vaccine-not-for-sale-donald-trump-2020-3?IR=T

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/16/donald-trump-tried-buy-exclusive-rights-coronavirus-vaccine-research-12403129/

I bet the US, the Germans and the German companies will deny any of this in a few weeks time.

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by koti

[iNow]

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coronavirus-updates-us-death-toll-tops-40000-stay/story?id=70237290&cid=social_twitter_abcn
 

Quote

10:38 p.m.: Trump to temporarily suspend U.S. immigration

Citing "the attack from the Invisible Enemy" of the coronavirus, President Donald Trump said he will temporarily suspend immigration to the U.S.

The president said he would carry out the directive trough an executive order.

“In light of the attack from the Invisible Enemy, as well as the need to protect the jobs of our GREAT American Citizens, I will be signing an Executive Order to temporarily suspend immigration into the United States!”

And displacement of blame and scapegoating of the “other” shifts into a higher gear. 

Dear Mr President: The virus is already here and doesn’t care a whit about your xenophobia and nationalism. 

[zapatos]

Quote

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-deaths-no-benefit-malaria-160619592.html

[CharonY]

23 hours ago, iNow said:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coronavirus-updates-us-death-toll-tops-40000-stay/story?id=70237290&cid=social_twitter_abcn
 

And displacement of blame and scapegoating of the “other” shifts into a higher gear. 

Dear Mr President: The virus is already here and doesn’t care a whit about your xenophobia and nationalism. 

I do not think they care. It is painfully obvious that xenophobia and nationalism was part of the agenda all along (in fact, aside from dismantling protective agencies, it is one of the few obviously consistent policies) to make America great white again.