Trump Connection to Hydroxychloroquine (split from Corona virus general questions mega thread)

[J.C.MacSwell]

12 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Ehem: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/30/21243117/trump-blames-obama-coronavirus-broken-tests-jim-acosta

Makes sense. Obama really should have been thinking ahead. Only question is: "why didn't Trump think of this sooner?" Must be Covid anxiety...he's not on his game...or perhaps overly focused on Covid 23...(that one's on him)

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by J.C.MacSwell

[StringJunky]

12 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Makes sense. Obama really should have been thinking ahead. Only question is: "why didn't Trump think of this sooner?" Must be Covid anxiety...he's not on his game...or perhaps overly focused on Covid 23...(that one's on him)

 

Funnily enough, Obama was foresighted:

Quote

While it wasn’t possible for Obama to leave coronavirus tests for Trump, his administration did leave behind a detailed pandemic response playbook put together by Obama’s National Security Council in 2016. But instead of using it, Trump fired the government’s pandemic preparedness team in 2018, and later spent six weeks after the coronavirus arrived in the US downplaying it at every turn.

 

[MigL]

If you want to blame D Trump for the stupid advice he gives ( Hydroxychloroquine, UV light and disinfectants, etc. ), fine.
If you want to blame D Trump for squabbling with medical professionals, instead of listening to their advice, fine.
If you want to blame D Trump for worrying about his re-election more than mitigating the pandemic, and associated death toll, that's fine too.

But in 2009, during the H1N1 epidemic, the CDC estimate for the death toll is between 9000 and 18000.

"During the pandemic, CDC provided estimates of the numbers of 2009 H1N1 cases, hospitalizations and deaths on seven different occasions. Final estimates were published in 2011. These final estimates were that from April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010 approximately 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (8868-18,306) occurred in the United States due to pH1N1. These final estimates are available at: Estimating the burden of 2009 pandemic influenza A (H1N1) in the United States (April 2009-April 2010), "

From       https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/estimates_2009_h1n1.htm

Who do we blame for those deaths ?
Seems B Obama prepared his pandemic response playbook a little late ?

( hey, it's my duty to stir up controversy  )

PS: ( and generate discussion )

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by MigL

[iNow]

11 minutes ago, MigL said:

Seems B Obama prepared his pandemic response playbook a little late ?

Perhaps, and perhaps his administration should’ve done better. I can get on board with that. 

However, Trump is claiming the current problems with testing right now during the current covid pandemic are Obama’s fault... the pandemic which began 5 months ago due to a virus which didn’t exist while Obama was President. 

Surely we can agree that’s horseshit. 

[MigL]

Definitely.
I can certainly agree that D Trump is dancing as fast as he can to try and divert blame for the many failures, from himself, in an attempt to secure re-election.
That's been his MO for the last 3 1/2 years.

[iNow]

Obama isn’t going to be the blame talking point. You watch.

These next weeks and months... ANY time ANY republican gets challenged on the pandemic response... the IMMEDIATE pivot will be China. They will be the scapegoat du jour now through the election... with a sprinkle of immigration hate and talk of border walls. 

China, not Obama. 

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Trump is dancing as fast as he can to try and divert blame for the many failures, from himself, in an attempt to secure re-election.
That's been his MO for the last 3 1/2 years.

Ask not what you can do for your country, ask who you can blame for grifting so hard and failing it so miserably. 

[Strange]

7 hours ago, iNow said:

Obama isn’t going to be the blame talking point. You watch.

These next weeks and months... ANY time ANY republican gets challenged on the pandemic response... the IMMEDIATE pivot will be China. They will be the scapegoat du jour now through the election... with a sprinkle of immigration hate and talk of border walls. 

China, not Obama. 

And we have a winner.

"US President Donald Trump has appeared to undercut his own intelligence agencies by suggesting he has seen evidence coronavirus originated in a Chinese laboratory."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52496098

[StringJunky]

8 hours ago, iNow said:

Obama isn’t going to be the blame talking point. You watch.

These next weeks and months... ANY time ANY republican gets challenged on the pandemic response... the IMMEDIATE pivot will be China. They will be the scapegoat du jour now through the election... with a sprinkle of immigration hate and talk of border walls. 

China, not Obama. 

Ask not what you can do for your country, ask who you can blame for grifting so hard and failing it so miserably. 

The WH is looking how it can retaliate, I read yesterday in Reuters.

[CharonY]

31 minutes ago, MigL said:

Seems B Obama prepared his pandemic response playbook a little late ?

There is an interesting background to that, though. Throughout the years, certainly at least since Bush the response to outbreaks (I am talking about the US here, but one could exchange dates and it would somewhat also apply to many other countries) the common reaction is to have an outbreak, build up response capacities, then forget about them and slowly defund them up until the next one occurs. The playbook was one (possibly the most comprehensive) attempt to solidify these measures. But it is also true that when Obama came into office he initially  disbanded an office for global health security (which was first disbanded by Bush but re-instated sometime after 9/11). So in a way Trump is doing the same mistakes as his predecessors (there is more nuance to it, but leave it a that). What seems to be massively different is that in this case there is no indication that there will be any lessons this time around. 

So basically the classic way is that we forget the lessons learned, get surprised by it blowing up, learn something from it and then over time forget again. This time we forget things, refuse to learn and double-down on ignorance. Can't wait to see what happens after that (ideally from the inside of my locked lab). 

[MigL]

That's a problem with all democratic political systems.
Political leaders only govern four years down the road, and can't see past the next election.

But I'll take that over a dictatorship, or one-party system, any day.

[dimreepr]

20 hours ago, MigL said:

That's a problem with all democratic political systems.
Political leaders only govern four years down the road, and can't see past the next election.

But I'll take that over a dictatorship, or one-party system, any day.

The definition is not, always, that stark; imagine a system where, not only everyone gets to eat and sleep comfortably, but the those who want more, gets a little more comfort.

Would you really throw that back? Because you disagree with the premise?

For example, the NHS...

Edited May 3, 2020 by dimreepr

[Area54]

On 4/26/2020 at 12:36 AM, MigL said:

Proud to report I haven't seen a single one of his press briefings.

You should watch them. The rise they cause in blood pressure and vigorous exercise, thumping the wall with ones fists and kicking the furniture to pieces, obviate the need for regular exercise.

[iNow]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/us/politics/rick-bright-coronavirus-whistleblower.html
 

Quote

Rick Bright: The Coronavirus Whistle-Blower Who Said The Trump Administration Steered Contracts to Cronies

Rick Bright, the ousted chief of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Agency, said he was pressured to steer millions of dollars to the clients of a well-connected consultant.

 

[StringJunky]

13 minutes ago, iNow said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/us/politics/rick-bright-coronavirus-whistleblower.html
 

 

I read the AP account earlier. It's a damning indictment. The present administration is as bad as the Russian one.

Edited May 6, 2020 by StringJunky

[iNow]

1 minute ago, StringJunky said:

I read the AP account earlier. It's a damning indictment.

And his base support won’t shake or recede one bit. His floor is 40-45% support among the voting populace. For them, his grift and lies and corruption is a feature, not a bug. 

[CharonY]

It is hard to watch that so many folks approve of Trump's flailing response. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/coronavirus-polls/

Considering that much of what worked out was more despite the interference of the WH rather than because of it.

 

And with regard to the consultant:

Quote

To justify extending funding to a pharmaceutical company, Mr Clerici said the CEO was "a friend of Jared Kushner,

 

[iNow]

Whether he actually is or he’s actually lying, neither possibility strikes me as a good message to be sent out to the world from the POTUS

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/5/18/21262889/trump-taking-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus

Quote

Trump says he’s taking hydroxychloroquine

Either Trump is taking the drug, which can cause hallucinations and heart failure, or he’s irresponsibly lying about it.

On Monday afternoon, President Trump told the press that he’s taking a drug called hydroxychloroquine as a preventative to ward off the coronavirus — a practice for which there is no evidence and that could, in theory, have negative side effects as serious as hallucinations and heart failure.

“I take it,” Trump said. “So far, I seem to be okay.”

Every day, for about a week and a half now, he says he’s been taking it.

I mean... What harm could come from hallucinations in the man controlling the nuclear stockpile and who can move markets with a tweet or errant comment?

This brief 15 minute CBS podcast called Debriefing the Briefing lays it out fairly clearly

[StringJunky]

3 minutes ago, iNow said:

Whether he actually is or he’s actually lying, neither possibility strikes me as a good message to be sent out to the world from the POTUS

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/5/18/21262889/trump-taking-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus

Every day, for about a week and a half now, he says he’s been taking it.

I mean... What harm could come from hallucinations in the man controlling the nuclear stockpile and who can move markets with a tweet or errant comment?

I think the message is aimed at his base.

[iNow]

Just now, StringJunky said:

I think the message is aimed at his base.

I think he’s trying to move press attention away from his failed response to the pandemic. From the link above:

Quote

On the other hand, Trump may be trying to goad the media into getting bogged down in an issue that’s less important than the actual outbreak and Trump’s failed response to it. At the press conference, he told reporters, “I was just waiting for your eyes to light up when I said this, when I announced this,” indicating he’s perfectly aware that he’s starting a controversy.

 

[StringJunky]

4 minutes ago, iNow said:

I think he’s trying to move press attention away from his failed response to the pandemic. From the link above:

 

Right. I thought he was trying to say to his base: "I'm leading by example".

[CharonY]

4 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Right. I thought he was trying to say to his base: "I'm leading by example".

Ha yeah. Poisoning ones voter base would seem like a bold move.

[StringJunky]

5 hours ago, CharonY said:

Ha yeah. Poisoning ones voter base would seem like a bold move.

But he doesn't think that, does he?

E2A: This is even too much for a Fox anchor:

Quote

Fox's Cavuto urges viewers not to take drug like Trump

“This is a leap that that should not be taken casually by those watching at home or assuming, well, the president of the United States says it’s okay,” Cavuto said.

He said he was saying it “not to make a political point here, but a life and death point. Be very, very careful.”

Trump responded on Twitter late Monday by reposting a series of tweets in which his supporters called Cavuto “irresponsible,” “foolish” and “gullible.” The president added that Fox News “is no longer the same” and said he was “Looking for a new outlet!”

Cavuto’s words carry weight because Fox News is the network of choice for many of the president’s supporters. Earlier this spring, the network was initially reluctant to criticize Trump following a news conference where he suggested injections of disinfectant could potentially help coronavirus victims. 

https://apnews.com/62f42496f56de058ce0b293c063ca439

 

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by StringJunky

[J.C.MacSwell]

...and after all he's done for Fox News....ingrates!

[dimreepr]

3 hours ago, StringJunky said:

But he doesn't think that, does he?

Of course not, he just thinks he could shoot them...

[iNow]

5 hours ago, StringJunky said:

The president added that Fox News “is no longer the same” and said he was “Looking for a new outlet!”

Before the 2016 election... before we fell into this bizarro world parallel universe when everyone thought Hillary Clinton would win the election... all of the "informed" commentators said Trump would be building his own network to present material farther to the right than Fox News. That was his plan... get attention and notoriety in the election campaign, then use that to refocus attention on to their new propaganda network and drive ratings.

Throughout his presidency, small media outlets have been building up to compete with Fox and he regularly interacts with them to bolster their visibility and reach. My guess is he will still proceed this way and create the network when his presidency is over, whenever that may be, and that what he's doing now is laying the ground work to by badmouthing Fox so they can enter the market as a legitimate competitor and steal their viewers.