Trump Connection to Hydroxychloroquine (split from Corona virus general questions mega thread)

[StringJunky]

Quote

CDC removes unusual guidance to doctors about drug favored by Trump

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has removed from its website highly unusual guidance informing doctors on how to prescribe hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, drugs recommended by President Donald Trump to treat the coronavirus.

The move comes three days after Reuters reported that the CDC published key dosing information involving the two antimalarial drugs based on unattributed anecdotes rather than peer-reviewed science.

Reuters also reported that the original guidance was crafted by the CDC after President Trump personally pressed federal regulatory and health officials to make the malaria drugs more widely available to treat the novel coronavirus, though the drugs in question had been untested for COVID-19.

Initially, the CDC webpage, titled Information for Clinicians on Therapeutic Options for Patients with COVID-19, had said: “Although optimal dosing and duration of hydroxychloroquine for treatment of COVID-19 are unknown, some U.S. clinicians have reported anecdotally” on several ways to prescribe the medication of COVID-19.

Medical specialists had told Reuters they were surprised by that language.

<snip>

Doctors and other health experts had further criticized the guidance as suggesting that doctors might prescribe the medications when it isn’t established whether or not they are effective or harmful.

Now the CDC website no longer includes that information. Instead, its first sentence says: “There are no drugs or other therapeutics approved by the US Food and Drug Administration to prevent or treat COVID-19.”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-usa-cdcguidance/cdc-removes-unusual-guidance-to-doctors-about-drug-favored-by-trump-idUKKBN21P3A0?il=0

 

[koti]

Never let a crisis go to waste seems to be the theme behind the scenes all over.

Edit: Arent there any laws that could force Trump to sell all his and his family assets and only then let him keep the presidency? 

Edited April 7, 2020 by koti

[CharonY]

SJ, thanks for the link. I was not aware of that and it is very worrying. I generally hold the CDC in high regard, but that has dampened quite a bit.

[StringJunky]

15 minutes ago, CharonY said:

SJ, thanks for the link. I was not aware of that and it is very worrying. I generally hold the CDC in high regard, but that has dampened quite a bit.

I don't think it's an inherent problem with the CDC, it's been ok until now, it's a problem of White House administration overreach. It's just one more symptom of this administration's apparent desire to to corrupt the machinery of governance and oversight to their own ends.

Edited April 7, 2020 by StringJunky

[swansont]

31 minutes ago, koti said:

 Edit: Arent there any laws that could force Trump to sell all his and his family assets and only then let him keep the presidency? 

No. I expect that will change in the future.

[iNow]

32 minutes ago, koti said:

Arent there any laws that could force Trump to sell all his and his family assets and only then let him keep the presidency? 

Who would enforce them? Trump is the chief executive and the executive branch controls law enforcement. He and his justice department can simply ignore them. Then, the only recourse is for congress to impeach, and well... they already have and look at us now. 

[StringJunky]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

Who would enforce them? Trump is the chief executive and the executive branch controls law enforcement. He and his justice department can simply ignore them. Then, the only recourse is for congress to impeach, and well... they already have and look at us now. 

I think the main problem is the Supreme Court, as a part of checks and balances, has a partisan foundation. It needs to be, in principle, apolitical in its composition and, therefore,  judgements.

[J.C.MacSwell]

56 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Not sure whether you are aware of this info guys, but he today threatened the Indian government for banning the export of this drug:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52180660

This link contains, I think, a pretty good statement of a reasonable judgement on hydroxychloroquine's potential at this point in the game:

"If it truly has a dramatic effect on the clinical course of Covid-19 we would already have evidence for that. We don't, which tells us that hydroxychloroquine, if it even works at all, will likely be shown to have modest effects at best," Dr Joyeeta Basu, a senior consultant physician, told the BBC.

Hopefully it, or something better, will prove to be an effective part of our health systems' toolbag.

 

47 minutes ago, koti said:

Never let a crisis go to waste seems to be the theme behind the scenes all over.

Edit: Arent there any laws that could force Trump to sell all his and his family assets and only then let him keep the presidency? 

They should be in a blind trust (good luck with that in Trump's case), but a requirement for every President to sell all assets, and all those of his family?

They're already struggling to come up with anyone clearly better than Trump...

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

I don't think it's an inherent problem with the CDC, it's been ok until now, it's a problem of White House administration overreach. It's just one more symptom of this administration's apparent desire to to corrupt the machinery of governance and oversight to their own ends.

No, I get that. I was just hoping naively that such essential agencies would be left to do their work, especially during emergencies. But similar to FEMA, it does not seem to be the case.

 

2 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

This link contains, I think, a pretty good statement of a reasonable judgement on hydroxychloroquine's potential at this point in the game:

"If it truly has a dramatic effect on the clinical course of Covid-19 we would already have evidence for that. We don't, which tells us that hydroxychloroquine, if it even works at all, will likely be shown to have modest effects at best," Dr Joyeeta Basu, a senior consultant physician, told the BBC.

Hopefully it, or something better, will prove to be an effective part of our health systems' toolbag.

Yes and some countries (Swededen, I think for example) have stopped as in addition to low or lack of efficacy, there are also more reports on side effects. 

[Scarlett zou]

As per the CDC, hydroxychloroquine is currently under investigation in clinical trials for the pre-exposure or post-exposure treatment of patients with mild, moderate and severe COVID-19.

The trail is indeed promising, but still a lot more research and approval are needed before using the shot of drugs on masses.

[iNow]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett zou said:

The trail is indeed promising

It’s actually not, but we already have a different thread for that discussion (which you also just posted in)

[PhilGeis]

Good grief - as ill informed on science and policy as many of you are - you sure are experts re. your bias.

Edited April 8, 2020 by PhilGeis

[Dagl1]

30 minutes ago, PhilGeis said:

Good grief - as ill informed on science and policy as many of you are - you sure are experts re. your bias.

You called it bias, but now there are links showing potential ties. Do you deny the validity of those claims or? 

Sure, iNow (I think) said this before evidence had accumulated, based on previous behaviour of the US president, is that bias?

Or are you agreeing with everything, but just pointing out that people are biased (because bias doesn't mean people can't be right)?

8 hours ago, iNow said:

It’s actually not, but we already have a different thread for that discussion (which you also just posted in)

Could you elaborate? In my country (Netherlands), we have added it onto our recommended treatment options, I personally thought some trials were promising, and others weren't. There is no conclusive evidence so far, is there? (I think you are referring to the article Charon posted: No Evidence of Rapid Antiviral Clearance or Clinical Benefit with the Combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin in Patients with Severe COVID-19 Infection)?

Edited April 8, 2020 by Dagl1

[koti]

1 hour ago, PhilGeis said:

Good grief - as ill informed on science and policy as many of you are - you sure are experts re. your bias.

Heres some more „bias” for you to read:

https://www.google.pl/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/not-for-sale-anger-in-germany-at-report-trump-seeking-exclusive-coronavirus-vaccine-deal

[iNow]

2 hours ago, Dagl1 said:

Could you elaborate?

I'd prefer if we could keep the medical side of this discussion and whether or not individual treatment options are effective in that other thread, but here's one summary for convenience: https://www.sciencealert.com/small-trial-found-antimalarial-is-not-effective-for-treating-coronavirus

[Dagl1]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

I'd prefer if we could keep the medical side of this discussion and whether or not individual treatment options are effective in that other thread, but here's one summary for convenience: https://www.sciencealert.com/small-trial-found-antimalarial-is-not-effective-for-treating-coronavirus

Ah ye, fair point, thanks for the link!

[MigL]

I don't see that as damning evidence, Koti.
The US has provided start-up seed money to a lot of companies involved in the manufacture of vaccines.
And it is the largest contributor to the WHO.

How much money could D Trump personally make by 'pushing' this treatment option ?
The patent on it has expired and it can be manufactured by any company, and while the original company to introduce it, is one of the largest pharmaceuticals in the world, Hydroxychloroquine is a very small part of their business. When you couple that, with costs under a dollar per pill for the generic, how big a boost will Sanofi actually see in its stock ?
Also D Trump doesn't actually own stock in the company, but Sanofi is a component of a lot of Mutual funds, which he probably has in his portfolio.

I think you guys are overplaying his greed, and underplaying his stupidity.

[iNow]

Just now, MigL said:

I think you guys are overplaying his greed, and underplaying his stupidity.

I think you're underplaying how power and influence works. Even if Trump owns zero dollars in that stock, he does get contributions, donations, and support from major players in the economy who do own controlling shares. Those people who will contribute via SuperPAC to his re-election... they can spend tens/hundreds of millions of dollars as a "thanks" to his talking up this one pharmaceutical... and that's a huge potential motivator whether he owns a million shares or zero in his own personal stock accounts. 

[Strange]

35 minutes ago, MigL said:

I think you guys are overplaying his greed, and underplaying his stupidity.

Just wait till Fox News has a "documentary" on how 5G is causing Covid-19 and he will be promising to bring down all the cell towers.

[taeto]

2 hours ago, MigL said:

underplaying his stupidity.

To promote hydroxychloroquine as a remedy against coVid-19 does not seem stupid at all, provided you own a lot of stocks in hydroxychloroquine manufacturing companies. 

Same if you replace "hydroxychloroquine" by "magic beans" in the previous sentence.

Edited April 8, 2020 by taeto

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, MigL said:

I think you guys are overplaying his greed, and underplaying his stupidity.

Why not both?

[Phi for All]

37 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Why not both?

In this case, I believe it IS both. This is sounding more and more like Trump talking up something one of his sycophants mentioned. He often gushes about a topic he's heard from someone who speaks well of him, as part of his blatant flattery pro quo policy. 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/opinions/in-trump-world-flattery-will-get-you-everywhere-and-nowhere-parker/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/21/frenzy-flattery-around-trump-is-reaching-new-extremes/

https://apnews.com/f9fb8c41b7f8acc215e3ec78ca32210a

[iNow]

There you go again with that hateful bias. Lol

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

There you go again with that hateful bias. Lol

You're so negative! Why can't you say, "It's amazing how consistent you've been in defending your perspective"? Why can't you say it like that?

I've been right a lot. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

[John Cuthber]

23 hours ago, Sensei said:

Not sure whether you are aware of this info guys, but he today threatened the Indian government for banning the export of this drug:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52180660

Very sensible of them.
If  ill-informed rich Americans start trying to buy the stuff then there won't be any left for poor Indians who need it to treat malaria (for which it actually works).

No great shock that Trump's being a bully about it.