MicroBiologist and Bio tech engineers thoughts needed

[Ismail]

Hello 

If you're seeing this right now, I need to you take a look of this idea I conceived and give me your thoughts.

Thank you.

 

Quote

Corona Virus Device & Why We Need You

About the IWCD

Structure of device: The IWC device is a small self-testing device which has a tip that is shaped like the tip of cotton wool while the rest of the body is shaped like a "token". The tip allows the user to swab the throat and the nose while the " token" displays three results in colors "High risk (Red)", " Inconclusive (Orange)" and "Low risk (Green)".

To avoid panic, only the colors will be shown to the patient.

However, the device is connected to a central system that tracks all the results from each device as well as the location of each device so they can follow up and ascertain suspect areas and also collect the device for molecular testing for more in-depth investigation.

The results determines the next step of the agency.

If the device is unable to process result, the agency can directly collect from the persons that got the device for mass testing in the labs.

Before anyone gets device, they must meet the following criteria.

1.) Feel basic corona-related symptoms
2.) Must have travelled or in contact with a person from an area reported to be infected 3.) Register on a website and take a basic assessment
4.) Results of the test determines the delivery of the device

For a patient who tests positive, he only sees the red color and the agency in charge will call based on the details submitted during registration for delivery of the device.

Once device is switched on tracking is also switched on and once the swab is done, the central system of where the location is used and the results gotten from the swab.

However, the device still needs to be collected for more in-depth investigation.

Other Features of this device

• The device would be reusable after sterilization

• Has a cover and replaceable swab head

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Strange

[Strange]

!

Moderator Note

I have taken the liberty of replacing the file with its contents as it just contains text. It is much easier to discuss (and quite) something posted on the forum, than the contents of a file.

 

33 minutes ago, Ismail said:

The tip allows the user to swab the throat and the nose while the " token" displays three results in colors "High risk (Red)", " Inconclusive (Orange)" and "Low risk (Green)".

You seem to have skipped over the hard part of the test: how are these colours displayed. 

You have just described how such a device could be used if it existed. The big challenge is making such a test. Many companies are working on making such a test work. These would probably be similar to pregnancy tests with a colour displayed to indicate a positive test. Interpreting this would need to take into account the accuracy of the test.

[Dagl1]

39 minutes ago, Ismail said:

1.) Feel basic corona-related symptoms
2.) Must have travelled or in contact with a person from an area reported to be infected 

Seeing as asymptomatic spread and general asymptomatic infection is quite a thing, the idea to only give such as device when they corona-related symptoms, or know that they have been in contact with a person that is infected/comes from an area (how large do you define area) to be infected, will lead to missing the mark quite a lot.

How will you this machine test for corona infection?

 

[Strange]

42 minutes ago, Ismail said:

MicroBiologist and Bio tech engineers thoughts needed

You haven't posted anything that requires comment from biologists or engineers. (Unless you want someone else to invent this device for you. But, as I say, there are lots of people working on that already.)

[Ismail]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

!

Moderator Note

I have taken the liberty of replacing the file with its contents as it just contains text. It is much easier to discuss (and quite) something posted on the forum, than the contents of a file.

 

You seem to have skipped over the hard part of the test: how are these colours displayed. 

You have just described how such a device could be used if it existed. The big challenge is making such a test. Many companies are working on making such a test work. These would probably be similar to pregnancy tests with a colour displayed to indicate a positive test. Interpreting this would need to take into account the accuracy of the test.

A strip would be added to the swab head so when the fluid touches the strip, it gives a color and like you said, it’s like a pregnancy test result. The accuracy of the result from the device cannot be ascertained immediately through the colors that is why the swab head is designed to hold the fluid from the person’s nose and throat and that swab head is taken to the lab by the agency in charge to investigate further and deliver the result.

1 hour ago, Dagl1 said:

Seeing as asymptomatic spread and general asymptomatic infection is quite a thing, the idea to only give such as device when they corona-related symptoms, or know that they have been in contact with a person that is infected/comes from an area (how large do you define area) to be infected, will lead to missing the mark quite a lot.

How will you this machine test for corona infection?

 

Thank you that’s a valid point but we would like to start with the clear symptom cases first. As regards area we start with the epicenter of the virus.

Note: I want this device to be very simple and affordable like a toothbrush so everyone in that area could get one.

From the information gotten from infected cases, we can identify potential areas that could have been infected before their discovery.

So the registration in this case might be invalid, we would share the devices based on the information gotten from the infected cases.

The device would test for Corona virus by collecting fluids from infected people and the fluids are taken to the lab for molecular testing which is the best form of investigation of the virus.

So, the device is just a collecting device and a tracking device not necessarily testing.

But it saves the trouble of drive in, and the lack of testing.

Submitting the device for testing will be like the way the thrash collectors collect thrash

 

 

1 hour ago, Strange said:

You haven't posted anything that requires comment from biologists or engineers. (Unless you want someone else to invent this device for you. But, as I say, there are lots of people working on that already.)

I need someone to develop the device because the current solutions are not getting around a lot.

 

This one is simple and it’s not necessarily a testing and tracking device but a collecting device to enable testing at the labs 

[Dagl1]

Wait wait... you have no idea how to make the colour change based on there being virus or not...? And you want help with that part, yet you still call simple, just because sensitivity and specificity don't have to be super high? Do you have any ideas where to start. Just as a brainstorm (not to be taken too seriously, or at least it's not as simple, but) what about having ACE-2 receptors fused to an enzyme, which then changes the colour upon viral contact? Something akin to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCaMP. Not that that will be easy to just develop, but it came up in my head.

[Ismail]

2 minutes ago, Dagl1 said:

Wait wait... you have no idea how to make the colour change based on there being virus or not...? And you want help with that part, yet you still call simple, just because sensitivity and specificity don't have to be super high? Do you have any ideas where to start. Just as a brainstorm (not to be taken too seriously, or at least it's not as simple, but) what about having ACE-2 receptors fused to an enzyme, which then changes the colour upon viral contact? Something akin to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCaMP. Not that that will be easy to just develop, but it came up in my head.

Great idea

Thank you that’s why I said I need a microbiologist/biotech on the project.

However in case of the color being too much of a complication, we can remove that feature and allow it to allow collect fluid and track the contact.

That part is simple 

[Strange]

16 minutes ago, Ismail said:

However in case of the color being too much of a complication, we can remove that feature and allow it to allow collect fluid and track the contact.

That part is simple 

That is the easy part of the problem. Health systems are very good at collecting samples, labelling them, transporting them to a lab, reporting the results the doctor & patient, and coating the data centrally.

The challenges are things you have completely failed to address:

- Creating a reliable test for the presence of the virus (or, even more difficult, for the antibodies)

- Getting enough people and reagents to perform the necessary tests.

[Ismail]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

That is the easy part of the problem. Health systems are very good at collecting samples, labelling them, transporting them to a lab, reporting the results the doctor & patient, and coating the data centrally.

The challenges are things you have completely failed to address:

- Creating a reliable test for the presence of the virus (or, even more difficult, for the antibodies)

- Getting enough people and reagents to perform the necessary tests.

Thank you for response.

Challenge 1: It’s believed that molecular testing is one of the best methods to test the presence of the virus, and that can be done.

That’s not the function of the device. The device helps to collect mass samples and help the efforts on testing. Not 100% plus close.

2. Obviously that’s an issue but there are labs that have devices that allow for mass sample testing because drive in testing is effective but difficult to cover 100,000 people. If there is no lab or device that can do the mass testing then there might be a problem. There will be collection centers or drop spot marked for people to just drop their samples. For instance, traditional mail is gotten and sent through mail box. So something like that.

[Strange]

Your ideas seem to be more about infrastructure and policy, than actual testing.

[Ismail]

17 minutes ago, Strange said:

Your ideas seem to be more about infrastructure and policy, than actual testing.

I agree to an extent but That is if we are unable to get the immediate testing indicator feature added. Even at that, we can agree it help with mass testing

[Ghideon]

 

1 hour ago, Ismail said:

For instance, traditional mail is gotten and sent through mail box.

Relying on traditional mail to gain more information about infections could work. Maybe you wish to compare your ideas against current scientific initiatives? Here is an example, an article about a test running this week. Some short extracts:

Quote

Corona virus self-test kits are being mailed to 1,000 residents of Stockholm over the Easter weekend by two professors at KTH Royal Institute of Technology.

“With the research study we want to test the possibility of sampling at home, of being able to easily measure if you have been infected by the virus that leads to COVID-19,” 

The test would require a drop of blood. Results will not be made available to participants.

The type of test card is one that Roxhed and Professor Olof Beck at Karolinska Institutet developed together over the last eight years. Instead of a blotter, the technology uses a special microchannel, which autonomously stores a precise amount of the blood as a dried spot inside the card.

Source:  https://www.kth.se/en/aktuellt/nyheter/1-000-stockholmare-testas-for-corona-i-pask-1.973722. Note that in this case the goal is not to have the result delivered immediately to the individual. 

Here is a link to a 2016 article about the research that the above test is based on. I did not find an english version, hopefully google translate can help if required.

https://www.kth.se/aktuellt/nyheter/snabbare-blodprov-ger-effektivare-och-billigare-sjukvard-1.668762

 

 

[Ismail]

2 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

 

Relying on traditional mail to gain more information about infections could work. Maybe you wish to compare your ideas against current scientific initiatives? Here is an example, an article about a test running this week. Some short extracts:

Source:  https://www.kth.se/en/aktuellt/nyheter/1-000-stockholmare-testas-for-corona-i-pask-1.973722. Note that in this case the goal is not to have the result delivered immediately to the individual. 

Here is a link to a 2016 article about the research that the above test is based on. I did not find an english version, hopefully google translate can help if required.

https://www.kth.se/aktuellt/nyheter/snabbare-blodprov-ger-effektivare-och-billigare-sjukvard-1.668762

 

 

Thank you for the help but I just used traditional mail as analogy

Edited April 11, 2020 by Ismail

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, Dagl1 said:

Wait wait... you have no idea how to make the colour change based on there being virus or not...? And you want help with that part, yet you still call simple, just because sensitivity and specificity don't have to be super high? Do you have any ideas where to start. Just as a brainstorm (not to be taken too seriously, or at least it's not as simple, but) what about having ACE-2 receptors fused to an enzyme, which then changes the colour upon viral contact? Something akin to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GCaMP. Not that that will be easy to just develop, but it came up in my head.

How would you prevent a signal from binding of substrate or other viruses that you are not interested in?

[Ismail]

44 minutes ago, Ismail said:

Thank you for the help but I just used traditional mail as analogy

This is a good idea. Would definitely look into it. Are you a scientist?

11 minutes ago, CharonY said:

How would you prevent a signal from binding of substrate or other viruses that you are not interested in?

The Corona virus has identifiers and that’s what is going to be looked at during the molecular investigation.

[Dagl1]

1 hour ago, CharonY said:

How would you prevent a signal from binding of substrate or other viruses that you are not interested in?

I thought of it a little later as well;/ not really sure about it, but as a I mentioned, I didn't really think of it too much. I suppose each virus still utilises a specific mechanism, so maybe it would be possible to change the protein slightly so that it is only specific to Covid-19 binding, but to be honest, it sounds like A, a lot of hassle to go this route, B I am not even sure if that would work at all (and one would have to start testing other viruses that normally don't bind to this ACE-2 receptor either). The idea was interesting as long as it lasted hahaha

[Ismail]

31 minutes ago, Dagl1 said:

I thought of it a little later as well;/ not really sure about it, but as a I mentioned, I didn't really think of it too much. I suppose each virus still utilises a specific mechanism, so maybe it would be possible to change the protein slightly so that it is only specific to Covid-19 binding, but to be honest, it sounds like A, a lot of hassle to go this route, B I am not even sure if that would work at all (and one would have to start testing other viruses that normally don't bind to this ACE-2 receptor either). The idea was interesting as long as it lasted hahaha

😊 it was. Please if you know anyone that could help, please recommend

[CharonY]

On 4/11/2020 at 11:30 AM, Dagl1 said:

I thought of it a little later as well;/ not really sure about it, but as a I mentioned, I didn't really think of it too much. I suppose each virus still utilises a specific mechanism, so maybe it would be possible to change the protein slightly so that it is only specific to Covid-19 binding, but to be honest, it sounds like A, a lot of hassle to go this route, B I am not even sure if that would work at all (and one would have to start testing other viruses that normally don't bind to this ACE-2 receptor either). The idea was interesting as long as it lasted hahaha

That is exactly the reason why such tests still usually rely either on genetic markers or antibodies to ensure specificity. It is far more likely to be able to find an antibody to have high specificity for viral elements compared to changing something that has already a high affinity to something else as its main function. Nonetheless, cross-reactivity always remains a hurdle that one needs to address.