NOOB Scientist Checking In.

[MANDREWS85]

Hey everybody,  I've been setting up my various labs lately and thought I should check in here.  I really have no clue what I'm doing but eventually my goal is to figure some of this stuff out.

Here's a pic of my electronics lab setup so far.   I'm going with a HP theme for the most part as it will go with my server room.  It's currently been commandeered to fight the corona with colloidal silver production.

 

I would like to upgrade the lab with a HP-IB card in my vintage HP vectra P-233 but I'm still researching that.   Anyway nice place here, looking forward to contributing.  Stay safe and healthy.

[Area54]

Welcome to the forum. Your labset up looked interesting, however your mention of colloidal silver called to mind your earlier comment.

30 minutes ago, MANDREWS85 said:

I really have no clue what I'm doing

I think that may well apply in that context; hopefully not in others. Again, welcome.

[Phi for All]

59 minutes ago, MANDREWS85 said:

Here's a pic of my electronics lab setup so far.   I'm going with a HP theme for the most part as it will go with my server room.  It's currently been commandeered to fight the corona with colloidal silver production.

Even in the Lounge we require evidence to support a scientific stance, so if you're going to discuss this part any further, please start with evidence that silver has any positive effect on the human body, at least enough to counteract the documented negative effects. And NO, we don't want to hear subjective anecdotes about individuals. 

Virtually everybody here is highly skeptical of unproven coronavirus remedies, and we take science very seriously. Just know that you're stumbling into misinformation territory, and trespassers will be shot down on site.

[MANDREWS85]

Appreciate the replies.  Yeah, I was being facetious with the corona thing.  Regarding the Colloidal Silver (should i be calling it Electrically Isolated Silver, EIS ?)  I just started experimentation with that.  Unfortunately I can only offer anecdotal evidence from my own personal experience.  I've been using a 37 ppm solution( made 30v @ .5a )as a mouth rinse and toothpaste adjunct.  So far my gums seem to feel better and cavities don't really hurt as much.  My goal is to get the "nano particles."

I  would definitely be careful with full on internal applications of CS / EIS as well. I know this is less then scientific. So i do have several house mice that have volunteered to be test subjects.  Not sure about the ethical implications of that?   Or how i would even document something like that?  So I may just let them go in the back yard.

[Ghideon]

1 hour ago, MANDREWS85 said:

It's currently been commandeered to fight the corona with colloidal silver production.

I would like to see a reliable scientific source supporting that claim.

There are plenty of counter examples:

Quote

There's clear advice from the US health authorities that there's no evidence this type of silver solution is effective for any health condition. More importantly, it could cause serious side effects including kidney damage, seizures and argyria - a condition that makes your skin turn blue. 

They say that, unlike iron or zinc, silver is not a metal that has any function in the human body.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51735367

Quote

 is now facing a lawsuit in the state of Missouri, and New York officials have ordered him to stop promoting his colloidal silver products, which have since been removed from his website. 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-22/coronavirus-fraudsters-claim-to-have-cures

 

For more references check the wikipedia page* regarding fraudulent marketing of silver. Or visit some of the references, starting from no 12: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver#cite_note-12

 

 

That said, Im unable to read the label on the device to the left. I have some vague memory of using a similar one in the 90s. What's the model?

 

 

*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver#Fraudulent_products_marketed_during_the_COVID-19_outbreak

Edited May 4, 2020 by Ghideon
device note

[MANDREWS85]

Its a HP 1652B logic analyzer.  I'm making my own 8 bit computer to learn memory addressing and what not.   I should have introed with that instead of this hot button issue lol.

 

That said, Im unable to read the label on the device to the left. I have some vague memory of using a similar one in the 90s. What's the model?

Edited May 4, 2020 by MANDREWS85
quote

[StringJunky]

Quote

Pathophysiology
In humans and other animals chronic intake of silver products commonly leads to gradual accumulation of silver compounds in various parts of the body.[4] As in photography (where silver is useful because of its sensitivity to light), exposure of pale or colourless silver compounds to sunlight decomposes them to silver metal or silver sulfides. Commonly these products deposit as microscopic particles in the skin, in effect a dark pigment. This condition is known as argyria or argyrosis.

Chronic intake also may lead to silver pigments depositing in other organs exposed to light, particularly the eyes.[5] In the conjunctiva this is not generally harmful, but it also may affect the lens, leading to serious effects.

Localised argyria often results from topical use of substances containing silver, such as some kinds of eye drops. Generalized argyria results from chronically swallowing or inhaling silver compounds, either for home medicinal purposes, or as a result of working with silver or silver compounds.[6]

While silver is potentially toxic to humans at high doses, the risk of serious harm from low doses, given over a short term, is small. Silver is used in some medical appliances because of its anti-microbial nature, which stems from the oligodynamic effect. Chronic ingestion or inhalation of silver preparations (especially colloidal silver) can lead to argyria in the skin and other organs. This is not life-threatening, but is considered by most to be cosmetically undesirable.[4][5][7][8]

The reference dose, published by the United States Environmental Protection Agency in 1991, which represents the estimated daily exposure that is unlikely to incur an appreciable risk of deleterious effects during a lifetime, is 5 µg/(kg·d).[4]

Argyria worsens and builds up as exposure to silver continues, and does not resolve once exposure stops.

Pathophysiology
In humans and other animals chronic intake of silver products commonly leads to gradual accumulation of silver compounds in various parts of the body.[4] As in photography (where silver is useful because of its sensitivity to light), exposure of pale or colourless silver compounds to sunlight decomposes them to silver metal or silver sulfides. Commonly these products deposit as microscopic particles in the skin, in effect a dark pigment. This condition is known as argyria or argyrosis.

Chronic intake also may lead to silver pigments depositing in other organs exposed to light, particularly the eyes.[5] In the conjunctiva this is not generally harmful, but it also may affect the lens, leading to serious effects.

Localised argyria often results from topical use of substances containing silver, such as some kinds of eye drops. Generalized argyria results from chronically swallowing or inhaling silver compounds, either for home medicinal purposes, or as a result of working with silver or silver compounds.[6]

While silver is potentially toxic to humans at high doses, the risk of serious harm from low doses, given over a short term, is small. Silver is used in some medical appliances because of its anti-microbial nature, which stems from the oligodynamic effect. Chronic ingestion or inhalation of silver preparations (especially colloidal silver) can lead to argyria in the skin and other organs. This is not life-threatening, but is considered by most to be cosmetically undesirable.[4][5][7][8]

The reference dose, published by the United States Environmental Protection Agency in 1991, which represents the estimated daily exposure that is unlikely to incur an appreciable risk of deleterious effects during a lifetime, is 5 µg/(kg·d).[4]

Argyria worsens and builds up as exposure to silver continues, and does not resolve once exposure stops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria

 

[John Cuthber]

2 hours ago, MANDREWS85 said:

It's currently been commandeered to fight the corona with colloidal silver production.

That's not a good start, but... whatever. If you  ant to look like a smurf, that's your problem. You have been warned.
The kit you have is nice enough, you might also need stuff like a soldering iron.
And a word of warning HP made good kit, but it's rumoured that they dropped the HP name because everyone said it stood for "Higher Prices".
Probably less of an issue buying second hand.

 

We live in a weird world. It's possible that getting a newer computer will let you use new er equipment which is paradoxically cheaper- think abouyt teh stuff made for arduino etc.

[MANDREWS85]

Thanks for all the reads guys.  If i may though. I never advocated for the internal intake of colloidal silver. My intentions in making it were as a "natural organic" antimicrobial agent for topical applications.   That's secondary though.

21 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

That's not a good start, but... whatever. If you  ant to look like a smurf, that's your problem. You have been warned.
The kit you have is nice enough, you might also need stuff like a soldering iron.
And a word of warning HP made good kit, but it's rumoured that they dropped the HP name because everyone said it stood for "Higher Prices".
Probably less of an issue buying second hand.

 

We live in a weird world. It's possible that getting a newer computer will let you use new er equipment which is paradoxically cheaper- think abouyt teh stuff made for arduino etc.

 

I have a thing for the old American made stuff(or Japan/German).  Every things bigger inside in case you have to fix anything. Most importantly though I cant afford any new Agilent/ Keysite stuff lol.

Not sure if I want to pull the trigger on one of these things( OoOo  Buttons).

 

[John Cuthber]

15 hours ago, MANDREWS85 said:

My intentions in making it were as a "natural organic" antimicrobial

It isn't natural.

It isn't organic.

[MANDREWS85]

4 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

It isn't natural.

It isn't organic.

That's why I put that in quotes I didn't know.

From Google.

What is a natural substance?

a substance is a material which cannot be divided into other material. example: iron; if you cut iron you will get iron by any method. similarly natural substances are the substances which are extracted from nature. example: wood, glass, fibre, iron, cotton, water, etc.

What is meaning of organic compound?

An organic compound is any member of a large class of gaseous, liquid, or solid chemical compounds whose molecules contain carbon. Carbonates, simple oxides of carbon, and cyanide molecules do have carbon, but they are not regarded as organic.Oct 30, 2013

[Strange]

2 hours ago, MANDREWS85 said:

From Google.

That is not "from Google". Google is a search engine. It returns information from various sources. 

You might as well say "from a book". Or, more realistically, "from a library somewhere in the world". Not very useful as a reference. 🙂

[MANDREWS85]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

That is not "from Google". Google is a search engine. It returns information from various sources. 

You might as well say "from a book". Or, more realistically, "from a library somewhere in the world". Not very useful as a reference. 🙂

 My bad.  I meant I imputed the keys, "natural substance" and "organic compound" in Googles hashtable and the top values returned were in the previous post(think that's right(?):)).
 

[Strange]

25 minutes ago, MANDREWS85 said:

 My bad.  I meant I imputed the keys, "natural substance" and "organic compound" in Googles hashtable and the top values returned were in the previous post(think that's right(?):)).
 

And I meant that if you are going to quote something, particularly as a reference, you should say where it is from.

[MANDREWS85]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

And I meant that if you are going to quote something, particularly as a reference, you should say where it is from.

Good points, cause Google could shuffle results around?

Yeah, I concur Top Level Domain(TLD) Linking is best .  Yet, they could shuffle those around but that's beyond the scope of this thread At this time I think?

[Strange]

23 minutes ago, MANDREWS85 said:

Good points, cause Google could shuffle results around?

Yeah, I concur Top Level Domain(TLD) Linking is best .  Yet, they could shuffle those around but that's beyond the scope of this thread At this time I think?

You could just provide a link to the page where the quoted text came from. That is the normal procedure (it allows others to see more context for the material, it gives credit to the creator, and avoids problems of copyright or plagiarism).

[John Cuthber]

As far as I can tell, it's from some person on Quora
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-natural-substances
described as 

"Mohammad Hasnain, studied at Colleges and Universities"

I don't see that as particularly authoritative.
To be blunt, if one of the resident experts here says something categorical like "It isn't natural", you should probably  check damned hard before trying to rebut it.

Edited May 6, 2020 by John Cuthber

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

As far as I can tell, it's from some person on Quora

Probably one of the least authoritative sources available. It is like an Anti-Wikipedia - there may be the odd bit of truth in there but it is lost among all the nonsense. 

[MANDREWS85]

This is fun.  please don't ban me.  Just got my cheapo USB microscope to document my EIS / Colloidal silver exp's. Want to see the "vaporization" in the liquid reagent.  I put 50 volts at 5 amps and it gets cloudy quick.   I would like to make a documentation thread if i'm not attacked lol.

[Strange]

1 minute ago, MANDREWS85 said:

This is fun.  please don't ban me. 

Don't break the rules, and you will be OK.

[MANDREWS85]

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