The Killing of George Floyd: The Last Straw?

[zapatos]

9 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

More likely he might find a forum that, regrettably, would agree with some of his base assumptions and not challenge him on them.

Being challenged seems to have no impact on him. Perhaps he'd be better off where the truth is less valued.

If he had started this thread those types of comments would have resulted in the thread being closed.

[J.C.MacSwell]

8 minutes ago, iNow said:

We’ll never know the motives of others. All we have is their actions and words to interpret their intent 

Yet often a bad motive, or intent, is assumed, simply because the conclusions don't match one's own.

[iNow]

17 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

often a bad motive, or intent, is assumed, simply because the conclusions don't match one's own.

 Correct. That often happens. Couldn’t agree more. That, however, is not what’s happening here.

[zapatos]

19 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Yet often a bad motive, or intent, is assumed, simply because the conclusions don't match one's own.

And often people choose to ignore or defend the bigoted comments/actions of others because they are of a like mind.

[Dagl1]

@CharonY Thanks for the explanation! That adds quite a few things to the way I see it. 

Now back to the topic at hand (as I am also partly to blame for derailing it), do you all think that if this eventually dies down, and things do not change (in the system), these types of protests and riots will become more frequent, or will this be (at this scale) more a one-off thing?

[dimreepr]

47 minutes ago, Dagl1 said:

@CharonY Thanks for the explanation! That adds quite a few things to the way I see it. 

Now back to the topic at hand (as I am also partly to blame for derailing it), do you all think that if this eventually dies down, and things do not change (in the system), these types of protests and riots will become more frequent, or will this be (at this scale) more a one-off thing?

There is so many sections of society that are utterly pissed off with the status quo; and so many potential straws to add to the burden, if this one isn't the final straw, there will be another one along any time soon.

It really depends on how smart the government is. 🤒

[lightout]

Hello, people. So, what do you think about these protests and riots? Is it possible to create a survey in this topic? I am interested in the percentage of different opinions.

[lightout]

25 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

suggest you start a new topic

I think it's not a good idea(

26 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

alternatively you could read this one.

it takes a lot of time, and I'm a little lazy

sorry for my English, I'm not good at it

[iNow]

4 minutes ago, lightout said:

it takes a lot of time, and I'm a little lazy

That’s your problem, not ours

[Moreno]

32 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

You should watch the video's myself and INow posted, it explains the difference between systemic racism and simple bigotry/hatred.

Is the case with George Floyd a proved sign of systemic racism?

It there a different motive behind systemic racism and simple bigotry/hatred?

I think systemic racism can exist only if significant % of a total population is involved. I whish to know what % of whites in US are involved in systemic racism? Majority?

Edited June 5, 2020 by Moreno

[iNow]

2 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Is the case with George Floyd a proved sign of systemic racism?

This is a bit like asking if a single rain storm or a single hot day is due to climate change. The system is complex, and of course it contributes, but the problem is there’s no simple yes/no answer in the way you’re trying to force there to be.

2 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Is there a different motive behind systemic racism and simple bigotry/hatred?

What do you think?

Edited June 5, 2020 by iNow

[swansont]

9 hours ago, MigL said:

Here is the 'strawman' INow..

I don't particularly like it when 'labelling' takes the place of reasoning.
Calling people racists, or ignorant ( especially when the criteria used also applies to the user ) is counterproductive to the discussion America ( and some other parts of the world ) needs to have in the wake of this eye-opening incident.

Has anyone called another racist here?

As far as "ignorant" goes, it means "lacking knowledge or awareness in general" and it's true. Moreno is ignorant of the situation. But instead of learning the history, they are spouting falsehoods. 

 

 

!

Moderator Note

Recent posts about systemic racism (as a general topic) have been split

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/122264-systemic-racism-split-from-the-killing-of-george-floyd-the-last-straw/

 

 

[dimreepr]

12 hours ago, MigL said:

I find it funny that a bunch of Brits have labelled him ignorant because he has never lived in the US for more than 6 months.
How long have Dimreepr and Strange lived in the US ??
Surely you can make a better argument than that !

How many times are you going to contribute to a thread, then after you've been shown to be wrong; try to distance yourself from said thread, by trying to appear aloof with a strawman and/or passive aggressive humour; it's perfectly possible to not be ignorant of a country without having lived there, it's a by-product of education.

[Moreno]

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

Edited June 5, 2020 by Moreno

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Moreno said:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

Surprisingly 😣, it seems to lack the word cop/policeman/law enforcement officer. 🙄

[MigL]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Has anyone called another racist here?

When I mentioned that people are painting Moreano as a racist, Zap mentioned he already has two coats.
( there's that hidden meaning to words and phrases, on both our parts )

19 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

it's a by-product of education.

Exactly ! Whether Moreno is ignorant, or willfully ignorant, is a byproduct of education and/or life experience.
If you can't see that it has nothing to do with the fact that he hasn't lived in the US for more than 6 months, and you choose to blame his attitudes on that fact, when you also haven't lived in the US for any extended time, you have the problem, Dim. Not me.

And if you don't like my contributions, why do you always engage with me ?
I look forward to our next disagreement  .

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, MigL said:

Exactly ! Whether Moreno is ignorant, or willfully ignorant, is a byproduct of education and/or life experience.
If you can't see that it has nothing to do with the fact that he hasn't lived in the US for more than 6 months, and you choose to blame his attitudes on that fact

I didn't... You must have a big barn... 🙂

Systemic racism is not unique to America, for instance, in the UK the divide is much more insidious (the race is, poor people).

15 minutes ago, MigL said:

And if you don't like my contributions, why do you always engage with me ?

I didn't say I don't like them

17 minutes ago, MigL said:

I look forward to our next disagreement  .

As do I...

 

[Moreno]

On 6/4/2020 at 5:35 AM, Strange said:

Even if prejudice is equally common across all groups, that is not the point. It misses the point by several light years.
White people are in positions of privilege, authority and power.

Not mandated by any official laws. Therefore it is a speculation. 

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Not mandated by any official laws. Therefore it is a speculation. 

-1 and with that, I give up trying to educate...

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, Moreno said:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

!

Moderator Note

Please make your posts relevant. No more distractions, no more red herrings, no more fallacious logic. 

 

[bryozoa]

As tragic as this may be, I'd like to hear the police officer's side of the story. Police officers don't use force without good reason but the background details seem to have been lost in the media frenzy surrounding this event. Of course communist thugs are hijacking this event and using it as a pretext for the wanton destruction of property and destabilizing of society. I hope force is used to crash down on communists. Communism has been responsible for more atrocity than any other ideology but because academia is so inflitrated with communists, its crimes against humanity have been exonerated. The only way to root communism out of society will be by collapsing academic institutions.

Edited June 5, 2020 by bryozoa

[iNow]

18 minutes ago, bryozoa said:

I'd like to hear the police officer's side of the story

You mean where a compliant suspect of using a fake $20 bill was handcuffed, forced to the ground, and had a knee stuck into his throat for almost 9 minutes, nearly 3 minutes of which the suspect was already unconscious? You mean that side of the story?

[zapatos]

35 minutes ago, bryozoa said:

Police officers don't use force without good reason

37 minutes ago, bryozoa said:

Of course communist thugs are hijacking this event and using it as pretext for the wanton destruction of property and destabilizing of society.

Citation please. On the other hand, never mind. I can't hardly stand this anymore...

[Phi for All]

6 hours ago, Moreno said:

I think systemic racism can exist only if significant % of a total population is involved. I whish to know what % of whites in US are involved in systemic racism? Majority?

!

Moderator Note

It's important to hear various perspectives, even the ugly and odious. Having a dissenting opinion isn't against our rules, but your tactics are unacceptable. As in the above, your incredulity sets a vague standard for what "significant" means, while you ask the membership for exact numbers before you'll concede the point. And even when evidence is provided, you ignore it and jump to your next vaguely presented argument. And nobody knows if you learned anything.

You aren't engaging in good faith arguments, Moreno. The membership has no problem showing you the errors on which you base your dissension, but your lack of acknowledgement when someone takes the time to correct a bit of ignorance is soapboxing, and against the rules. We need to know there may be some meaningfulness to be had from these conversations, and you show no signs of learning anything, and you certainly don't present anything anyone here wants to be taught. 

This isn't your thread, so we won't close it because of your arguments, but you'll be suspended for rules violations. If you want to participate, step up the rigor, and stop using fallacious logic to make your point. 

 

[DrmDoc]

2 hours ago, bryozoa said:

As tragic as this may be, I'd like to hear the police officer's side of the story. Police officers don't use force without good reason but the background details seem to have been lost in the media frenzy surrounding this event. Of course communist thugs are hijacking this event and using it as a pretext for the wanton destruction of property and destabilizing of society. I hope force is used to crash down on communists. Communism has been responsible for more atrocity than any other ideology but because academia is so inflitrated with communists, its crimes against humanity have been exonerated. The only way to root communism out of society will be by collapsing academic institutions.

Didn't Chauvin, the offending officer, provide a very clear and concise statement by holding his knee to the neck of a handcuffed and deceased black man for nearly 3 minutes? What more can he possibly say to clarify or justify something so abhorrent.