The Killing of George Floyd: The Last Straw?

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Is that a pertinent question?

I didn't know what it meant.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I didn't know what it meant.

I usually google it.

[iNow]

29 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

His death will change things in America, that much is inevitable; the only real question is, how long it takes.

There’s also the important question of how much changes... what is the magnitude of the improvement

[J.C.MacSwell]

15 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I usually google it.

I did, but still wasn't sure that was what was being reffered to. I thought it might refer to something already discussed in the thread.

[iNow]

Just drop it, dim. Your reply was an unnecessary needling and distraction from the topic. Can’t believe it’s continued this long 

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

There’s also the important question of how much changes... what is the magnitude of the improvement

That is important, and the main focus of my post... That's decided right now, America's future depends on it.

Just now, iNow said:

Just drop it, dim. Your reply was an unnecessary needling and distraction from the topic.

Your right, just frustrated.

8 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I did, but still wasn't sure that was what was being reffered to. I thought it might refer to something already discussed in the thread.

Apologies. 

[Moreno]

3 hours ago, Strange said:

I know you don't actually read any of the evidence provided, because you want to stay in your little bubble of xenophobic comfort, but here is some more background: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52904593

Do you assume police is killing them just for been black, primarily? This is a controversial topic, because I like when police acts fast and brutal and regardless the race of an offender FOR REASON. But when they do the same thing for no justful reason it turns absolutely terrible. 

[dimreepr]

19 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Do you assume police is killing them just for been black, primarily? This is a controversial topic, because I like when police acts fast and brutal and regardless the race of an offender FOR REASON. But when they do the same thing for no justful reason it turns absolutely terrible. 

Imagine if you're wrong, how terrible...

[MigL]

It is obvious any change is not going to be top-down; not with this current President.
Would this not be a good time for a contender for the Presidency, in November, to propose some policies or legislative changes, and take advantage of the 'mood' of the American population ?
( even D Trump could expand his base by getting on board; but he may lose some of his 'traditional' base )

I have heard a lot of condemnations of the riots, but not very much in terms of proposals for changes moving forward

[CharonY]

There are quite a few. Booker and Harris have prepared a bill for example. And a number of organizations have put in proposals as well. There is a lot to read up. Most measures aim to in increase police liability for their actions, some call for diversion of police funding and divert it to community benefits and meadures (I.e. reducing militarization of police).

Another thing is that seems to be lost on some. Black folks suffer from the lowest threshold when it comes to police brutality. If rules are in place guaranteeing their safety, then by default other groups will be protected as well.

[Strange]

1 hour ago, Moreno said:

Do you assume police is killing them just for been black, primarily?

In some cases, yes. More often, being black just makes things worse - more likely to stopped, more likely to be arrested, more likely to be killed.

Quote

I like when police acts fast and brutal 

Why doesn't that surprise me.

I prefer to live in a civilised country.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Moreno said:

Do you assume police is killing them just for been black, primarily? This is a controversial topic, because I like when police acts fast and brutal and regardless the race of an offender FOR REASON. But when they do the same thing for no justful reason it turns absolutely terrible. 

You like it when police are brutal? What circumstance justifies being brutal?

[iNow]

8 minutes ago, bryozoa said:

This event has been orchestrated to divert public attention away from the erosion of freedoms perpetuated by the Corvid-19 global scam. Globalists (like George Soros) engineer civil unrest by fostering an atmosphere of racial tension while they quietly usher in a communist one world government.

So, like Soros wrote a check to the cop telling him to put his knee on this random guys throat for 9 minutes, and then another check to the people with cell phone cameras to walk down the street and that exact moment recording it and then upload and share it, and then another check to get their social network to help it go viral, and then another check to all of the millions of protesters around the planet. 

And before that, they had a global cabal of doctors and nurses fake the reports of 40,000 deaths in Italy and Spain, and thousands of others across Europe and Asia, and a hundred thousand across the US, and now in Brazil... and put fake bodies into all the morgues and mass graves they dug. 

And they did all this because they like communism more than freedom.

You’re totally right. That’s the ONLY explanation that makes any sense to reasonable people. Thank you for your bravery in speaking up knowing the risks of personal harm to you for sharing the real truth. You’re a true hero. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by iNow

[Strange]

13 minutes ago, bryozoa said:

This event has been orchestrated to divert public attention away from the erosion of freedoms perpetuated by the Corvid-19 global scam. Globalists (such as George Soros) engineer civil unrest by fostering an atmosphere of racial tension while they quietly usher in a communist one world government.

Ah, bless. That's so sweeeeet.

[Moreno]

3 hours ago, swansont said:

You like it when police are brutal? What circumstance justifies being brutal?

"Alive or dead you will come with me..."

[iNow]

Just now, Moreno said:

"Alive or dead you will come with me..."

Cute. Now, as the for the actual question...?

[swansont]

2 minutes ago, Moreno said:

"Alive or dead you will come with me..."

Great, you’ve watched Robocop. Will you answer the question?

[Moreno]

4 hours ago, CharonY said:

Black folks suffer from the lowest threshold when it comes to police brutality. If rules are in place guaranteeing their safety, then by default other groups will be protected as well.

Not guarantied. Where it follows from? I think it is better to talk about human rights protection regardless the race from the very beginning.

[MigL]

27 minutes ago, Strange said:

42 minutes ago, bryozoa said:

This event has been orchestrated to divert public attention away from the erosion of freedoms perpetuated by the Corvid-19 global scam. Globalists (such as George Soros) engineer civil unrest by fostering an atmosphere of racial tension while they quietly usher in a communist one world government.

Ah, bless. That's so sweeeeet.

Is that the guy who was arguing for eugenics because he couldn't get a date ( or reproduce, thank God ).
Less conspiracy theory; more analysis, please.

Just for discussion, and not to shift blame for the events that have occurred...
Is the job of policeman, as it currently is, untenable in the US ?
Are we willing as a society, to accept reduced levels of policing ?
We obviously can't have 'variable' policing, by area or population density; the same groups who are currently disadvantaged would be even more affected.
So how do we modify policing, so that it is color blind, and not 'brutal' ?

The whole Emergency Response Team ( about 50 ) recently quit in Buffalo, when a video incident surfaced that showed team members pushing an old man while trying to clear a protest area, for which they were suspended. They were following their training/orders, and can't be expected to treat each individual accordingly, when several thousand are present and some are destroying/vandalizing property.
Obviously this was 'brutal' treatment of an old man, but what should be done instead.

All suggestions welcome.

[zapatos]

21 minutes ago, MigL said:

They were following their training/orders

Were they? If so, then training/orders is the problem.

21 minutes ago, MigL said:

showed team members pushing an old man...

Who fell to the ground and cracked his skull. The team then just kept walking past him.

I imagine if he had not fallen we wouldn't know anything about this incident, but if training/orders involves indiscriminate use of force then the problem is bigger than I thought.

27 minutes ago, MigL said:

Is the job of policeman, as it currently is, untenable in the US ?

I think we have a perfect storm of training police to aggressively take control, a heavily armed public, along with an underlying current of racism. Bad combination.

I believe until police are trained more like they are in other countries, where the goal seems to be to 'deescalate' rather than 'take control', and are HELD RESPONSIBLE for their actions, this will not end anytime soon.

The protests and riots we are experiencing now are another drop in the bucket of moving us toward a more tolerant society. It's a terribly slow process but I believe that is inevitable.

[MigL]

25 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I believe until police are trained more like they are in other countries, where the goal seems to be to 'deescalate' rather than 'take control', and are HELD RESPONSIBLE for their actions, this will not end anytime soon.

Police in other countries ( like mine ) don't have to worry about the large numbers of guns, compounded by open and concealed carry rules.
How do you train for that, other than by taking control of the situation.

Similarly, when the order comes down to clear the area of protesters, because Zapatos has just called and said his store is being vandalized/burglarized, d you ask all of the thousands of people if they've recently had a hip replacement before starting to push them away from the area ?
Or should we just let your store be burglarized, and it's your problem to deal with ?

A discussion of the issues needs analysis from all points of view.
It is very easy to say what should not be done; a lot harder to say what should be done instead.

Edited June 6, 2020 by MigL

[DrmDoc]

45 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Not guarantied. Where it follows from? I think it is better to talk about human rights protection regardless the race from the very beginning.

Your advocacy for police brutality suggest your statement here is unequivocally disingenuous.  You've touted your belief in police brutality and, thereby, confirm you do believe it exist.  It's hardly convincing that a person who holds such beliefs is in anyway sincerely or slightly interested in humans rights protection whatsoever.  

 

41 minutes ago, MigL said:

The whole Emergency Response Team ( about 50 ) recently quit in Buffalo, when a video incident surfaced that showed team members pushing an old man while trying to clear a protest area, for which they were suspended. They were following their training/orders, and can't be expected to treat each individual accordingly, when several thousand are present and some are destroying/vandalizing property.
Obviously this was 'brutal' treatment of an old man, but what should be done instead.

All suggestions welcome.

As decent human beings raised with a modicum of morals, they should have innately known to weigh "following training/orders" against the loss of common decency. "I was just following training/orders" is not an excuse for crimes committed while doing so.

[zapatos]

6 minutes ago, MigL said:

Police in other countries ( like mine ) don't have to worry about the large numbers of guns, compounded by open and concealed carry rules.
How do you train for that, other than by taking control of the situation.

Well, start by not having them kneel on the neck of a handcuffed suspect. Next, if they have a knife, don't approach them right away, keep a car between you, learn how to recognize mental illness. Finally, don't ASSUME they have a gun and want to shoot you.

8 minutes ago, MigL said:

Similarly, when the order comes down to clear the area of protesters, because Zapatos has just called and said his store is being vandalized/burglarized, d you ask all of the thousands of people if they've recently had a hip replacement before starting to push them away from the area ?

Yes, you ask them all if they have recently had a hip replacement. Because that would be the reasonable change to expect after seeing two officers pushing an unarmed, lone  septuagenarian to the ground.

[Strange]

25 minutes ago, MigL said:

Police in other countries ( like mine ) don't have to worry about the large numbers of guns, compounded by open and concealed carry rules.
How do you train for that, other than by taking control of the situation.

Similarly, when the order comes down to clear the area of protesters, because Zapatos has just called and said his store is being vandalized/burglarized, d you ask all of the thousands of people if they've recently had a hip replacement before starting to push them away from the area ?
Or should we just let your store be burglarized, and it's your problem to deal with ?

A discussion of the issues needs analysis from all points of view.
It is very easy to say what should not be done; a lot harder to say what should be done instead.

People do actually research and study these things. So there are people who know what should be done. De-escalation techniques work better than going in with more force. But politicians like to look "tough" so they tend to go for the solutions that don't work.

 

18 hours ago, Moreno said:

But in all the cases when killing a black guy by a police officer provokes wide scale riots and public actions it is always a white police officer who is suspected. 

Please provide the evidence that this claim is based on.

18 hours ago, Moreno said:

But there are a huge number of a Latino and Asian police officers who serve in US police. Is there really not a single such an incident involving one of them?

The racial mix of the police force is not as important as the dominant police culture of violence: https://daily.jstor.org/hiring-more-black-officers-key-reducing-police-violence/

[Curious layman]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Police in other countries ( like mine ) don't have to worry about the large numbers of guns, compounded by open and concealed carry rules.
How do you train for that, other than by taking control of the situation.

 

How about like this.

Nikolas Cruz, murdered 17 people

George Floyd, suspect in a forgery.

Notice the difference?

The argument about the amount of guns and open carry being a problem is a load of crap.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Curious layman