Aquatic technology?

[Xyph]

Assuming an aquatic species achieved some semblance of sentience, what would be the chances of their developing a technological society on a par with (or, at least, recognisable as industrialized by) our own? I can see they'd encounter some obvious difficulties (lack of fire, mainly) but could these perhaps be overcome?

[LucidDreamer]

One of the problems with an aquatic species achieving a technological society like ours is that they don't have hands and therefore it would be difficult for them to manipulate simple tools effectively.

[ydoaPs]

i have seen video of octopi manipulating objects with thier tenticles.

[calbiterol]

One of the problems with an aquatic species achieving a technological society like ours is that they don't have hands and therefore it would be difficult for them to manipulate simple tools effectively.

 

Not necessarily.

 

How much difficulty might we have manipulating a two-ton sledgehammer with no handle? Quite a lot. And yet, concievably, some organism out there in this wide universe could use something like this as a tool, and have absolutely no problem manipulating it. The whole point that I'm trying to make is that their tools would not necessarily have to be anything like our tools. Yes, they would have problems manipulating simple hand tools, such as the ones from our past, but if they developed their own, things could be quite different.

 

Plus what yourdad said.

[LucidDreamer]

I was thinking of a whale or a dolphin because they are the most likely contenders for sentience. Their flippers are useful for swimming, not using tools.

[ydoaPs]

octopi can be pretty smart as well.

 

 

edit: flippers are pretty close to hands, btw.

[calbiterol]

Lucid, I was referring to dolphins as well, with the exception of agreeing with yourdad. Again, I will say, their flippers are useful for swimming, not using our tools. Just because they develop on the same planet, does not mean that their tools have to be similar. Alternatively, couldn't they manipulate things with their mouth? I've seen plenty of dogs get along fine without any real digits, just using their mouths and legs in general.

[AzurePhoenix]

Actually, a small population of dolphins has been found to be "tool-users" in the very primitive sense of using sponges as protective snout gloves. I might add, it's only the she-dolphins that do this - in your face you primitive males !!

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050606/dolphin.html

 

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EDIT: Certain predatory prehistoric birds once re-evolved claws for hunting (unless that evidence has been refuted?), and dolphins still possess the skeletal remnants of digits. It's possible, not necessarily plausible, but possible that under the right circumstances they could evolve some dexterity (IMO, not that it counts for much).

[calbiterol]

In defense of "us primitive males,"

 

The researchers were able to rule out genetic inheritance because the documented spongers consist of 12 females and one male.

 

Mitochondrial DNA, for example, would pass down to both sons and daughters, but females mostly engage in sponging. The single male sponger, however, suggested that a female-only chromosome, even a recessive one, is not at work. Krützen believes mothers teaching their offspring is the only other possible explanation for the sponge glove usage.

 

Most male dolphins simply may not have a lot of time for sponging.

 

"If they are sexually mature, they spend a significant amount of time chasing females, in particular in breeding season," Krützen told Discovery News.

 

Now, aside from the comments about stereotypical males... There you have it.

 

[Kyrisch]

The scientists behind the special The Future is Wild!, a special that aired on The Discovery Channel not long ago, predicted that the next sentient beings would be of squid ancestory.

[AzurePhoenix]

I have that DVD set . The "squibbon" were very cool, but there was no real originality, they were basically apes in squid form.

 

In defense of "us primitive males' date='"....

 

Now, aside from the comments about stereotypical males... There you have it.

 

[/quote'] To maintian the superiority of my kind, I must snatch whatever I can get, no matter what technicalities get shunted aside. That's called rotten science

[Xyph]

That thing about the dolphins is pretty interesting - I'll have to try and watch that thing about the sentient squid as well.

 

I was thinking more about what sort of technology sentient aquatics could achieve assuming they had the dexterity for it, though - how would their technology be limited by their lack of fire? Could they build huge underwater cities? What sort of chance would they have of building vehicles to get them around faster? Would they ever be able to use electricity?

[calbiterol]

Undersea volcanic vents might supply a pseudo-fire concept.

[AzurePhoenix]

Or maybe massively complex cog systems powered by leashed whales. Sorry, I'm done.

[Rasori]

I'm sure that if they had the sentience, they'd be smart enough to make use of it.

 

After all, before we developed wires, we couldn't use electricity, could we? They'd just have to develop their own. As for lack of fires, that could lead to a completely different type of technology and industry, though I do think geothermal "fire" sources could work well (they're just short-lived before you have to take your torch and put it in a different part of the still-molten rock).