What exactly do these terms mean.

[jajrussel]

 I have read that Asymptomatic people are making others sick. The term seems simple enough, but the I apparently don’t have a clear understanding of what it means.
 

In specific, one no symptoms appear And the disease goes through its natural course. 

2nd the person is sick allowing the spread but symptoms are delayed. The disease goes through its natural course.

3rd the person is a constant carrier never showing any symptoms. This to me would seem to be an unnatural corse?

 The earned immunity person? A bus driver told me the other day he had had Corona already so he shouldn’t have to bother with a mask. His thinking being,  that because he has developed an immunity that he can not infect others through transference should he be around someone who is infected then comes in contact with someone who has not. 
Another driver told me he tested positive, but never got sick. Now that he is immune he shouldn’t have to worry about the mask. I suspect they were making conversation looking for a sympathetic ear from a patron with a similar view.  I don’t argue with bus drivers, but I don’t understand why someone would think that I would have nothing to fear simply because they are immune. Unless, their, or maybe my thinking is wrong. I’m just trying to figure out why it is so easy for apparently everyone to be so absolutely confused this late in the day?

 I’m also wondering how Corona Effects interactions Between electrical Devices, because my virtual Apple keyboard keeps capitalizing Seemingly every other word. Apparently, all that is required for capitalization is a pause to think.🤔😒😂😒

[fiveworlds]

Quote

Now that he is immune he shouldn’t have to worry about the mask

A test is necessary to determine if the person is immune.There is no reason to assume that he has immunity after getting the virus once.

Medicine likes to put prefixes on things. "A" in front of a word means logical negation of the following word so "Asymptomatic" means not symptomatic. The person is sick but a third party would never be able to tell they were sick by looking at them. They may also think that they aren't sick or that their symptoms are normal.

Take an imaginary person Jim. He has hayfever and is always sneezing. He acquires the coronavirus infection and sneezes but thinks nothing of it because it is normal for him to be sneezing in the summer. Other people living with Jim know he has hayfever and think nothing of his sneezing.

 

[Area54]

1 hour ago, jajrussel said:

Another driver told me he tested positive, but never got sick. Now that he is immune he shouldn’t have to worry about the mask. I suspect they were making conversation looking for a sympathetic ear from a patron with a similar view.  I don’t argue with bus drivers, but I don’t understand why someone would think that I would have nothing to fear simply because they are immune. Unless, their, or maybe my thinking is wrong. I’m just trying to figure out why it is so easy for apparently everyone to be so absolutely confused this late in the day?

I've emphasised your last point. The answer seems clear to me: the confusion arises because we, or more precisely the medical 'establishment', is still unclear about many characteristics of the virus:

• We do not know why there is a large difference in severity based upon:
  • Age
  • Sex
  • Ethnicity
• We do not know, with confidence, the full range of symptoms
• We do not know what proportion of the population with the virus are asymptomatic
• We do not know how effective masks may be in halting the spread
• We do not know what proportion of those who recover from the virus will carry antibodies
• We do not know to what extent those antibodies will provide immunity to reinfection
• We do not know how long any immunity will last
• Etc.

Given what we don't know, given the diveristy of views from experts, given the changing pattern of advice, given the different responses of different governments, I am not surprised that the public at large may be confused.

[jajrussel]

On 7/10/2020 at 1:48 PM, Area54 said:

I've emphasised your last point. The answer seems clear to me: the confusion arises because we, or more precisely the medical 'establishment', is still unclear about many characteristics of the virus:

• We do not know why there is a large difference in severity based upon:
  • Age
  • Sex
  • Ethnicity
• We do not know, with confidence, the full range of symptoms
• We do not know what proportion of the population with the virus are asymptomatic
• We do not know how effective masks may be in halting the spread
• We do not know what proportion of those who recover from the virus will carry antibodies
• We do not know to what extent those antibodies will provide immunity to reinfection
• We do not know how long any immunity will last
• Etc.

Given what we don't know, given the diveristy of views from experts, given the changing pattern of advice, given the different responses of different governments, I am not surprised that the public at large may be confused.

It would seem that what we do know is that if you are examined and have underlying conditions that the rate of recovery will be lower if they simply send you home. There are so many things said that can possibly be true that one might ask, “well yes, why wouldn’t someone who has no underlying conditions have a better chance of survival?”

 Underlying conditional Diseases have become the diagnosis of choice. Maybe?
 This disease might prompt Drs to check for a virus in the future instead of possibly sending people home after changing their meds, or worse performing surgery four an underlying condition on a person who does have an underlying condition, but their current problem is the virus. The results of the virus probably do increase the chance of death in a person who has a serious underlying condition, but a Dr might make a different decision on how to handle a patient if the Dr knows there is COVID on top of a serious underlying condition, as in they may decide not to add trauma to trauma, if they know the patient has COVID and a history of heart disease. 
You listed a lot of, we don’t knows, but they should been able to explain the normal method of viral transmission.

 I find it amazing that in the beginning they were saying only sick people should  be wearing a mask. I was scheduled for a doctor appointment. No one said wear a mask. I get there all medical personal are wearing mask. Okay, this is confusing? Hmm... Maybe since I used to work with insulation I should have known that the purpose of PPE is to protect the wearer. I’m guessing that no one should have ever said only sick people should be wearing mask. Now I hear; “oh yeah, that’s what we said, but we were afraid that the people who needed the mask the most might run out.”  I didn’t get COVID, but...

It’s kinda annoying. I really do understand ignorance. Sometimes, you just aren’t aware. If you don’t know you don’t know. One day they will know, and maybe they will even tell the truth about what they know. 
But because, they have been lying from the beginning I’ll probably be messed up for a long time. Because someone had a cough then they died. When I was in the hospital having surgery they were admitted had surgery was sent home and passed away. It all happen after I was admitted, and before I got out. Mom had a cough I had asked my sister to keep an eye in her. I was numb. How do they admit someone perform major surgery then send them home where she dies. That quick.  All while I’m in the hospital? It’s messed me up.

 The hospitals were even looking for Covid yet. Yet every time they tell their story in the news it changes they knew about it in January then they knew about it in November. They can’t get it straight they just keep lying all I know is it happened so damn quick and I have no choice but to accept what they have said. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by jajrussel

[Area54]

40 minutes ago, jajrussel said:

But because, they have been lying from the beginning I’ll probably be messed up for a long time.

I understand you have had a rough time and are understandably confused/frustrated/distraught. I don't know where you live, so I don't know which "they" you are referring to. My observation from the UK is that there has been very little lying**, but a lot of decisions revealed as poor as we learnt more about the virus, and a handful of decisions that were just plain incompetent, but not lies. Recall the saying, which I paraphrase, Never attribute to conspiracy what can be accounted for by incompetence.

**I've been especially impressed by the First Ministers of the devolved administrations of Scotland and Wales; Boris Johnson, not so much. Bluster, bombast and buffonery can only take you so far.

[jajrussel]

42 minutes ago, Area54 said:

I understand you have had a rough time and are understandably confused/frustrated/distraught. I don't know where you live, so I don't know which "they" you are referring to. My observation from the UK is that there has been very little lying**, but a lot of decisions revealed as poor as we learnt more about the virus, and a handful of decisions that were just plain incompetent, but not lies. Recall the saying, which I paraphrase, Never attribute to conspiracy what can be accounted for by incompetence.

**I've been especially impressed by the First Ministers of the devolved administrations of Scotland and Wales; Boris Johnson, not so much. Bluster, bombast and buffonery can only take you so far.

In the US.  Dates about what they knew when they new. Coincidental maybe. The original symptom a cough. I came out my surgery somewhat apathetic. I every time someone said anything my response was, okay. No emotion. Apparently I’m healing, but I’m not okay. Now I’m trying to understand.  I’m asking why do they keep changing dates about what they knew and when? Why did they tell people not to wear PPE mask? Am I going to read Next month that they have been studying this disease for some time and that China has been asking The Who to give them time to solve the problem? Have the hospitals been looking for symptoms of a cough with fever before November not knowing exactly why, but If someone has a cough even though there is a reasonable explanation the first thing they are to do is check for a fever, then keep checking for a fever until the person is well? Is it normal for any virus to sweep across a world in a matter of weeks? Is the world that busy that by simply coming within six feet of someone a virus can be spread worldwide that fast? Is the world really that busy?

 I get worked up I’m sorry. People started getting sick and were dying it was being written off as underlying conditions. I’m not even sure if I’m allowed to be tested yet. I’m not sick. I haven’t been sick since. Halloween day. That would be the day I received 3 stints or is it stents? Apple keeps using whatever spelling  it wants and I have no clue which is correct? The hospitals have been wonderful. I’m down 2 doctors now. One for sure. The other’s office will eventually give me a call, but until they do he is not going to be in the office.

 I’m worried that when I’m eventually tested they will say yes you have had it.
 

 I’ve been holding it in. My mom had a cough, they cut her open then sent her to the exact room I ended up in at my sisters house where she died. My response was, okay.

 Now I’m listening to people complain because wearing a mask makes them hot. Apparently, I lost it today, or maybe I’m just getting better. I don’t know. 

[CharonY]

On 7/10/2020 at 9:43 AM, jajrussel said:

In specific, one no symptoms appear And the disease goes through its natural course. 

I think you should divorce yourself from the idea that a disease goes a certain course. A disease is a harmful condition that is caused by some sort of agent. So you can infected by an agent e.g. bacterium or virus but depending on what happens, the disease may not manifest itself in you.

How do we classify a disease? By monitoring symptoms. So if someone is infected (i.e. tested positive for presence of an infectious agent) but shows no symptoms, the person is asymptomatic or potentially pre-symptomatic. The latter just means that a person is positive for the agent, negative for symptoms at time of testing but may develop symptoms later (i.e. we only know in retrospect whether the person was truly asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic).

However, obviously symptoms alone won't allow you to classify the infectious agent you have, as many may share similar symptoms. So if you have a cough and other symptoms that are associated with COVID-19, you should be tested. But there is no way to be sure what you have otherwise.

In addition, as others have mentioned, being sick does not automatically mean immunity. Regarding face masks, the reason originally predominantly sick people were asked to wear masks was because masks reduce droplet generation and makes it less likely that others get sick. However, there is increasing evidence that asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic folks may also spread the disease at which point it becomes prudent to wear a mask even if you do not have symptoms.

A big issue in the US is that they have politicized health. The severity of COVID-19 is now not judged based on data (as in most other countries) but based on party lines, which is just utterly ridiculous. In order to get info you will need to listen to medical experts. I will say that knowledge is changing for another simple reason. Since the outbreak there has been an unprecedented boost in research so we learn things at a very fast pace, which also means that some things we assumed to be true earlier may be changed rather quickly. Normally a consensus forms slowly over years of research. Now it is happening in weeks or even days and it is obvious that not all assumptions will be proven true.

[jajrussel]

2 hours ago, CharonY said:

A big issue in the US is that they have politicized health. The severity of COVID-19 is now not judged based on data (as in most other countries) but based on party lines, which is just utterly ridiculous.

Monetized health is more the way I see it. It seems political at the moment, but when the time is right they will all agree on the minimum  joint political move to help the economy which will be to accept as necessary whatever is needed to be done to shore up the economy.

It’s bad when people can’t pay their bills, but a large portion of The US economy is supported by health insurance. I’m guessing that the first thing they will do is agree that everyone has to go back to work which is where the majority income for health insurers comes from.

Then they will agree to either increase the rates withdrawn from paychecks or agree to lower the insurers responsibility of the bills forcing an even greater responsibility Of the bill on the worker.

Then they will agree to give those who go back to work within a timely manner low interest loans without any attached provisions, but direct lower courts to allow wage attachments pursued by providers.

Generally, when a person is afraid they are about to lose everything they will agree to anything, but to smooth the way, safety measures will be agreed to, but one of the agreements the workers will have to accept is an arbitration agreement that the US courts will accept as binding.

If the employer loses or is forced by court intervention To ceed some demand to the employee. The employer will respond by reiterating their desire for employee  health by implementing stricter safety rules and enforcing PPE requirements by firing anyone who doesn’t have his or her mask on.

Then once everyone is back working the partisan movement will be complete. Those who survive will once again agree to disagree.

 Thank you... I am wondering though where is the best place to get health information in the US, the media, or YouTube?🤔🧐😳

5 hours ago, Area54 said:

My observation from the UK is that there has been very little lying**, but a lot of decisions revealed as poor as we learnt more about the virus, and a handful of decisions that were just plain incompetent, but not lies. Recall the saying, which I paraphrase, Never attribute to conspiracy what can be accounted for by incompetence.

The only real difference between the UK and the US anymore is the letters of the Alphabet between K and S, and a lot of water.
I once wrote, not here sadly, that the main problem with the US Is that it is presented and governed by failed conspiracy theorist.

 I was wondering? Which political quality do you find more endearing lying, or incompetence, but judging from your paraphrase I’m guessing incompetence it is. 😊

5 hours ago, Area54 said:

**I've been especially impressed by the First Ministers of the devolved administrations of Scotland and Wales; Boris Johnson, not so much. Bluster, bombast and buffonery can only take you so far.

Just thought I’d note that according to my Grandfather my ancestors were from wales, according to my uncle they were from Scotland. Mom was a Johnson to the core. 😊

Edited July 14, 2020 by jajrussel

[Area54]

1 hour ago, jajrussel said:

Just thought I’d note that according to my Grandfather my ancestors were from wales, according to my uncle they were from Scotland. Mom was a Johnson to the core.

Then, if you follow tennis, you may wish to keep an eye on Cameron Norrie, No. 3 in the UK and, I suggest, a future world top 20 player. His father is Scottish, his mother Welsh.

 

1 hour ago, jajrussel said:

Which political quality do you find more endearing lying, or incompetence, but judging from your paraphrase I’m guessing incompetence it is.

I realise that's a lighthearted comment, but you are correct,  in the sense that incompetence is often accompanied by a sincere desire to do the right thing, lying - not so much.

[jajrussel]

14 minutes ago, Area54 said:

I realise that's a lighthearted comment, but you are correct,  in the sense that incompetence is often accompanied by a sincere desire to do the right thing, lying - not so much.

Agreed...

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, jajrussel said:

 Thank you... I am wondering though where is the best place to get health information in the US, the media, or YouTube?

Generally speaking the CDC would be a good place to start- there have been some indications that the administration might have hampered their ability to communicate data freely. Youtube is probably the worst place as you can find conspiracy theories side by side with folks who may or may not know what they are talking about. "Serious" Newspapers such as New York Times have good articles and I would focus on long articles where they do some explanatory work. But perhaps others have better suggestions- I tend to get my info from primary literature, but that may a bit difficult or even confusing for laypersons. 

[jajrussel]

3 minutes ago, CharonY said:

I tend to get my info from primary literature, but that may a bit difficult or even confusing for laypersons.

Gosh dang it you could tell... it was as soon as I suggested YouTube wasn’t it?😒😂

8 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Youtube is probably the worst place as you can find conspiracy theories side by side with folks who may or may not know what they are talking about.

Yep! It was YouTube alright...