Paul Singh Jr Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 Has anyone either tried to trace the point in space we’re all matter I.e planets asteroids etc came from.because I’m sure with are technology we could re trace the trajectory of all matter in space and find out the location the so called Big Bang happened.
Janus Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 The Big bang was not an explosion in space and time, it was an explosion of space and time. It happened everywhere in the universe, as it involved the entirety of all space. 1
Paul Singh Jr Posted July 13, 2020 Author Posted July 13, 2020 I do know that the Big Bang Happened practically everywhere but some ppl recently theorised that all matter came from one source
Endy0816 Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Paul Singh Jr said: I do know that the Big Bang Happened practically everywhere but some ppl recently theorised that all matter came from one source The space we and everything else is occupying today is where that 'source' was. Everything was at a single point(roughly speaking) before that became less dense. Edited July 14, 2020 by Endy0816 1
Strange Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 7 hours ago, Paul Singh Jr said: I do know that the Big Bang Happened practically everywhere but some ppl recently theorised that all matter came from one source Can you provide a more specific reference than “some people”? Pretty much all matter (in the form of hydrogen and some helium) was formed early in the Big Bang. That is the “one source” and why matter is evenly distributed throughout the universe 2
joigus Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 Totally concur with @Janus & @Endy0816. I'd like to know who said that too, @Strange. (+1)3 Let me offer you a complementary picture of why everything running away from one point doesn't work. If everything in the universe were running away from one point, we would look at the night sky and see something very special at that point. That would be the point we're running away from. Instead, what we see is a series of spherical layers older and older in every direction the farther away from us we look. Until we hit the very feeble, very dilute image of a primeval plasma state of the universe (this is called the surface of last scattering). A picture of the universe when it was opaque to radiation, because all the particles were ionized (plasma) so it didn't let radiation through. That's a picture of a pretty early universe. And it appears more or less the same in every direction. So, where is the original point? I hope that helps. 2
Sensei Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 On 7/13/2020 at 10:58 PM, Paul Singh Jr said: Has anyone either tried to trace the point in space we’re all matter I.e planets asteroids etc came from. [...] ..it would be a much more interesting discussion if you would stop a few words earlier.. It would be discussion about location of supernova explosion which gave birth to the all heavier elements in the Solar System.. 2
joigus Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Sensei said: ..it would be a much more interesting discussion if you would stop a few words earlier.. It would be discussion about location of supernova explosion which gave birth to the all heavier elements in the Solar System.. +1. This is a very interesting re-focusing of the question. Maybe the OP is interested in it? I don't think it can be done with our solar system because AFAIK remains of supernova explosions are seen as halos of dust (e.g., Crab Nebula). I surmise that our Solar System is much older than the Crab Nebula... 1
Sensei Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, joigus said: +1. This is a very interesting re-focusing of the question. Maybe the OP is interested in it? I don't think it can be done with our solar system because AFAIK remains of supernova explosions are seen as halos of dust (e.g., Crab Nebula). I surmise that our Solar System is much older than the Crab Nebula... ..what is minimum velocity of dust from a supernova explosion? (i.e. which won't get back to it due to gravity and being sucked by the newly forming black hole)... ..what is maximum velocity of dust from a supernova explosion? (can it exceed escape velocity of the entire galaxy? analyze per galaxy size and mass).. In the case of Crab Nebula velocity measurements x time, can give the moment in which supernova exploded. According to Wikipedia it might be 1054 year A.D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1054 Enjoy Betelgeuse until you have it! The same extrapolation can be done with any other supernova, or supernova-to-be. i.e. when (and in what quantity) remnants of Betelgeuse will reach Earth in the future (and any other close to the Solar System supernova-explosion-to-be) The same extrapolation can be done with the Solar System. I think the best is to write a computer simulation which calculates, estimates, predicts where and when it happened (or predicts where any other historical supernova was in the past billions of years ago). Where is remaining black hole after supernova explosion, which created the all heavier elements which you have here on the Earth, and in the Solar System? Edited July 16, 2020 by Sensei 2
joigus Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Sensei said: ..what is minimum velocity of dust from a supernova explosion? (i.e. which won't get back to it due to gravity and being sucked by the newly forming black hole)... ..what is maximum velocity of dust from a supernova explosion? (can it exceed escape velocity of the entire galaxy? analyze per galaxy size and mass).. In the case of Crab Nebula velocity measurements x time, can give the moment in which supernova exploded. According to Wikipedia it might be 1054 year A.D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1054 Enjoy Betelgeuse until you have it! The same extrapolation can be done with any other supernova, or supernova-to-be. i.e. when (and in what quantity) remnants of Betelgeuse will reach Earth in the future (and any other close to the Solar System supernova-explosion-to-be) The same extrapolation can be done with the Solar System. I think the best is to write a computer simulation which calculates, estimates, predicts where and when it happened (or predicts where any other historical supernova was in the past billions of years ago). Where is remaining black hole after supernova explosion, which created the all heavier elements which you have here on the Earth, and in the Solar System? Thanks, Sensei. Very interesting comments. +1. Yes, debris from supernova explosions that get ejected out of SN attraction "sphere". That makes a lot of sense. So do you suggest tracking BH as candidates for previously existing SN that gave rise to our solar system is (or could be) accomplished by some kind of signature method? If that's not what you're suggesting, can you think of ways that it could be done or is being done? Give you an example: Accretion disks of BH's having same isotopic signature than ours, therefore likely that we emerged from that particular BH? Also kinematics of "us" with respect with particular BH signaling more likely that we running away from them. Although if we came out with just escape velocity we would be considerably slowed down by now, so difficult to detect. Now that you mention Betelgeuse. I remember some 6 years ago going out late in the night to watch Orion in the small village where is was living. In the Summer in Spain it only comes out really very late (about 5AM). Once the police (the rural police is the "Guardia Civil") stopped me and asked me for ID. They asked what I was doing. I told them the truth: I was looking at the stars. But I didn't tell them that I was waiting for a supernova to go off, which is what I secretly was hoping for. They looked at me funny. But there were no more questions. 😌 PD: I have to read your wiki entry yet.
Area54 Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 There seems to be a presumtion in the last few posts that the solar system formed from the product of a single supernova explosion. This is not the case. Multiple supernovae would have contributed to the molecular cloud whose collapse led to the formation of the solar system. What is thought to be practical is to identify sister stars to the sun, from their spectroscopic signature. These would have formed as neigbours in the same cloud (compare with the Pleiades) then drifted apart. I don't recall whether such siblings have yet been idenitifed, but a literature search should turn up the answer. Here are a couple of papers on the subject: The evolution of the Sun's birth cluster and the search for the solar siblings with Gaia The authors "use self-consistent numerical simulations of the evolution and disruption of the Sun's birth cluster in the Milky Way potential to investigate the present-day phase-space distribution of the Sun's siblings." Searching for solar siblings among the HARPS data The authors note "At present, there are four plausible candidatesreported in the literature: HIP21158, HIP87382, HIP47399, and HIP92831. In this study weconduct a search for solar siblings amongthe HARPS high-resolution FGK dwarfs sample, which includes precise chemical abundances and kinematics for 1111 stars. Usinga new approach based on chemical abundance trends with condensation temperature, kinematics, and ages we found one (additional)potential solar sibling candidate: HIP97507." 3
Airbrush Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) On 7/13/2020 at 2:15 PM, Janus said: The Big bang was not an explosion in space and time, it was an explosion of space and time. It happened everywhere in the universe, as it involved the entirety of all space. That is only true if the big bang is infinite in size. That is the only way it can reach ALL SPACE. If eternal inflation and the multiverse theory is true, then each big bang, or "budding universe" has a finite size and therefore has a center point. Since your topic title is empty of any clue about it, I would suggest a more descriptive title, such as "Location of the Big Bang." Edited July 18, 2020 by Airbrush
Strange Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Airbrush said: That is only true if the big bang is infinite in size. That is the only way it can reach ALL SPACE. No, it would be true for a finite universe as well. 1
Airbrush Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Strange said: No, it would be true for a finite universe as well. How is it true for a universe that has a finite size, finite length, width, and height?
Strange Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 30 minutes ago, Airbrush said: How is it true for a universe that has a finite size, finite length, width, and height? That universe was once smaller and hotter (and denser). And has always been uniformly(*) full of matter. Being large, small, finite or infinite makes no difference. (*) Until gravity started causing areas of higher density. 1
Endy0816 Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 @Airbrush Not sure if this is the best example, but might imagine the Universe as a set of reverse Matryoshka dolls, with larger dolls nested within smaller dolls. The volume each doll contains increases rapidly, but internally.
MigL Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 Grown men don't play with dolls, Endi. Picture your typical simulation of an expanding universe, a balloon with dots on it. As you pump air into the balloon, it gets bigger and the dots separate just like galaxies do. There is no center to the surface of the balloon, no matter if finite or infinite. For eternal inflation, picture multiple 'aneurysms' on the surface of this balloon; areas where a smaller sphere starts expanding on the surface of the original balloon. In real space-time these new 'aneurysms' would be separated from the original by an event horizon, but in our balloon analogy they are still connected so that air can be pumped in. As the 'aneurysms' expand, any dots you draw on them will again start to separate like galaxies do, and again, there is no center to the surface of the 'aneurysm', whether finite or infinite. Actually eternal inflation can have 'aneurysms' on top of 'aneurysms' on top of the original balloon, but space- time is only represented by the surface of the balloons/aneurysms in this analogy. 1
Endy0816 Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, MigL said: Grown men don't play with dolls, Endi. *Tucks Universe back into pocket* Balloon example is all good until someone asks you about those dots expanding or us colliding with Andromeda, lol. Edited July 20, 2020 by Endy0816 1
MigL Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 Mae West would have been impressed. She said ... "Is that a pistol in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me ?" You have a whole universe in yours ! 1
Paul Singh Jr Posted September 2, 2021 Author Posted September 2, 2021 On 7/14/2020 at 2:44 PM, joigus said: Totally concur with @Janus & @Endy0816. I'd like to know who said that too, @Strange. (+1)3 Let me offer you a complementary picture of why everything running away from one point doesn't work. If everything in the universe were running away from one point, we would look at the night sky and see something very special at that point. That would be the point we're running away from. Instead, what we see is a series of spherical layers older and older in every direction the farther away from us we look. Until we hit the very feeble, very dilute image of a primeval plasma state of the universe (this is called the surface of last scattering). A picture of the universe when it was opaque to radiation, because all the particles were ionized (plasma) so it didn't let radiation through. That's a picture of a pretty early universe. And it appears more or less the same in every direction. So, where is the original point? I hope that helps. A black hole On 7/18/2020 at 9:22 PM, Strange said: No, it would be true for a finite universe as well. Energy can’t be destroyed 4 minutes ago, Paul Singh Jr said: A black hole Energy can’t be destroyed Works both ways -1
Paul Singh Jr Posted September 2, 2021 Author Posted September 2, 2021 On 7/16/2020 at 8:30 AM, Sensei said: ..what is minimum velocity of dust from a supernova explosion? (i.e. which won't get back to it due to gravity and being sucked by the newly forming black hole)... ..what is maximum velocity of dust from a supernova explosion? (can it exceed escape velocity of the entire galaxy? analyze per galaxy size and mass).. In the case of Crab Nebula velocity measurements x time, can give the moment in which supernova exploded. According to Wikipedia it might be 1054 year A.D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1054 Enjoy Betelgeuse until you have it! The same extrapolation can be done with any other supernova, or supernova-to-be. i.e. when (and in what quantity) remnants of Betelgeuse will reach Earth in the future (and any other close to the Solar System supernova-explosion-to-be) The same extrapolation can be done with the Solar System. I think the best is to write a computer simulation which calculates, estimates, predicts where and when it happened (or predicts where any other historical supernova was in the past billions of years ago). Where is remaining black hole after supernova explosion, which created the all heavier elements which you have here on the Earth, and in the Solar System? Exactly what I was getting at
beecee Posted September 2, 2021 Posted September 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Paul Singh Jr said: Exactly what I was getting at What were you getting at?
Paul Singh Jr Posted September 3, 2021 Author Posted September 3, 2021 That suns and black holes are worm holes Just now, Paul Singh Jr said: That suns and black holes are worm holes Think of a explosion at a atomic level.it’s just a series of mini explosions.why would the Big Bang be any different
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now