Modifying human brain

[Hans de Vries]

What if you modified the brain of a living human in a significant way?

 

What would happen if make the prefrontal cortex 2x thicker? Or temporal lobe? Or give him 2x bigger hippocampus?

[iNow]

It depends

[Strange]

20 minutes ago, Hans de Vries said:

What if you modified the brain of a living human in a significant way?

 

What would happen if make the prefrontal cortex 2x thicker? Or temporal lobe? Or give him 2x bigger hippocampus?

Some people have suffered quite dramatic changes to their brain, with variable results.

Quote

Phineas P. Gage (1823–1860) was an American railroad construction foreman remembered for his improbable^[B1]:19survival of an accident in which a large iron rod was driven completely through his head, destroying much of his brain's left frontal lobe, and for that injury's reported effects on his personality and behavior over the remaining 12 years of his life‍

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

The book The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat is another useful resource for the effects of various sorts of change to the brain.

[joigus]

20 minutes ago, Hans de Vries said:

What if you modified the brain of a living human in a significant way?

 

What would happen if make the prefrontal cortex 2x thicker? Or temporal lobe? Or give him 2x bigger hippocampus?

Interesting question, but too loosely defined, as @iNow points out. One very important thing you must clarify in my opinion is whether you are considering developmental biology. You can't just practice surgery, or implants technology in order to do that. Brains develop slowly, and the growth process monitored by enzymes, I surmise, is very important in the forming of such a complex organ as the brain.

[iNow]

Also, connections and neural density and other things like myelination often matter much more than critical volume or size

[IDoNotCare]

Just putting neurons in there doesn't work you have to know what they are doing down to the quantum scale. The human brain only functions like a human brain because of how many neurons it has. The elephant has more neurons.

But I think OP is talking about artificial enhancement, which would best be done by neuron replacement surgery, in vitro neuron nanorobotic replacement specifically. The issue with this is the uncertainty of where the electrons in the synapses are, if anywhere, because the more certain we are of their positions the less certain we are of their future trajectories when replacing them. You'd probably need a quantum theory of gravity and planet sized computer to represent all the numerical bits of quantum activity before you could replace such an intricate organ as the human brain with something better while maintaining one's continuity of consciousness.

[joigus]

17 minutes ago, IDoNotCare said:

you have to know what they are doing down to the quantum scale.

No knowing agent has to know anything. Embryonic stem cells make brains, and livers, and lungs, without anybody conscious orchestrating it.

It seems to be the current informed opinion that quantum coherence plays no role in brains, human or otherwise. It could be. But it's not likely, to say the least. Quantum coherence cannot be preserved in such a system as a brain. The electron positions are irrelevant for all we know.

I'm not aware of any serious model that contemplates quantum mechanics and gravitation as playing a fundamental role in conscience either.

You're using a very loose logic. Something like: quantum mechanics and gravity imply entropy, which implies information, which implies brains and conscience. That's not how it works. That much can be said even not knowing how it really works.

[IDoNotCare]

11 minutes ago, joigus said:

No knowing agent has to know anything. Embryonic stem cells make brains, and livers, and lungs, without anybody conscious orchestrating it.

It seems to be the current informed opinion that quantum coherence plays no role in brains, human or otherwise. It could be. But it's not likely, to say the least. Quantum coherence cannot be preserved in such a system as a brain. The electron positions are irrelevant for all we know.

I'm not aware of any serious model that contemplates quantum mechanics and gravitation as playing a fundamental role in conscience either.

You're using a very loose logic. Something like: quantum mechanics and gravity imply entropy, which implies information, which implies brains and conscience. That's not how it works. That much can be said even not knowing how it really works.

Consciousness is the word the word you're looking for, your conscience is your sense of morality.

The brain may form naturally but nature is built on unseen variables patched up by quantum probability arithmetics. If you want to change substrates quantum coherence definitely comes into play otherwise in vitro neuron replacement becomes bioelectric to electronic lobotomy. An artificial neuron built from electronics will house far more processing power than a neuron, so this is how you make the brain as big as possible without taking up any more space and this topic I think wants to make the human brain in particular bigger and better and this is the only way to do that.

[joigus]

The very fact that you talk about quantum coherence in a mesh of organic tissue at near 310 K proves to me that you are clueless about the meaning of the concept.

The fact that you've mentioned gravity in a context where polar electrostatic forces are orders of magnitude bigger proves to me that you are clueless about constants of Nature and dimensional scales.

You don't make sense philosophically either:

12 minutes ago, IDoNotCare said:

your conscience is your sense of morality.

Your room is not you. Your notepad is not your ideas, etc.

[Strange]

36 minutes ago, IDoNotCare said:

The brain may form naturally but nature is built on unseen variables patched up by quantum probability arithmetics. If you want to change substrates quantum coherence definitely comes into play otherwise in vitro neuron replacement becomes bioelectric to electronic lobotomy. An artificial neuron built from electronics will house far more processing power than a neuron, so this is how you make the brain as big as possible without taking up any more space and this topic I think wants to make the human brain in particular bigger and better and this is the only way to do that.

Do you have a program to make this stuff up?

[IDoNotCare]

43 minutes ago, joigus said:

The very fact that you talk about quantum coherence in a mesh of organic tissue at near 310 K proves 

1. Electrons in synapses =\= neurons. You can't replace substrates, (i.e. neurons to nanorobotics) without messing with the content of the synapses between them going from biological to mechanical.

2. The very fact that our quantum computers can't be coherent at high temperatures just shows that quantum probability is just patchwork covering for unforseen variables  like quantum gravity which exists on subatomic scale (i.e. electrons) all the time at any temperature below the planck temperature. So until you have those variables you shouldn't mess with the bio-electric patterns in someone's synapses. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by IDoNotCare

[Strange]

18 minutes ago, IDoNotCare said:

1. Electrons in synapses =\= neurons.

Synapses communicate by exchanging chemicals, not electrons.

18 minutes ago, IDoNotCare said:

2. The very fact that our quantum computers can't be coherent at high temperatures just shows that quantum probability is just patchwork covering for unforseen variables  like quantum gravity which exists on subatomic scale (i.e. electrons) all the time at any temperature below the planck temperature. So until you have those variables you shouldn't mess with the bio-electric patterns in someone's synapses. 

Irrelevant nonsense.