black hole maths puzzle

[KLIVE-alive]

Hello,

I have been given a puzzle to pass on to people who may be able to solve it. Here it is:

It doesn’t matter where it comes from

I’m just an intermediary…

Perhaps someone here will be able to solve it?

Unfortunately there is no financial reward for solving it

And apparently the solution tells us something new about black holes

But I don’t know what

I am not a mathematician or a scientist so it means nothing to me

[John Cuthber]

What's the evidence that it's not just some random numbers you (or someone) wrote down?

[Markus Hanke]

!

Moderator Note

Moved to ‘Puzzles’, pending further development. Not sure what to make of this thread just yet, but it most certainly has nothing to do with black holes.

 

[KLIVE-alive]

2 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

What's the evidence that it's not just some random numbers you (or someone) wrote down?

My source has assured me there is a solution and that it is possible to solve

And that it is not just random numbers

And I believe him

1 minute ago, Markus Hanke said:

!

Moderator Note

Moved to ‘Puzzles’, pending further development. Not sure what to make of this thread just yet, but it most certainly has nothing to do with black holes.

 

I've been told by my source that it's something to do with black holes

But I have no idea what

I'm just an intermediary

I'm not a physicist

I know nothing about black holes

[studiot]

How many forums are being spammed ?

 

https://mathforums.com/threads/black-hole-maths-puzzle.350271/

[KLIVE-alive]

1 minute ago, studiot said:

How many forums are being spammed ?

 

https://mathforums.com/threads/black-hole-maths-puzzle.350271/

Only these two

No more

I wouldn't call it spam

I'm merely asking different communities

[studiot]

Hopefully you have read the rules here, in which case you will know you have only 2 more posts available in the next 22 hours.

So I suggest you think very carefully before making any more and come up with some proper explanation of what this is all about.

You have already been asked for that by two other members.

Edited September 6, 2020 by studiot

[KLIVE-alive]

7 minutes ago, studiot said:

How many forums are being spammed ?

 

https://mathforums.com/threads/black-hole-maths-puzzle.350271/

I am trying to reach out to mathematically minded people

So asking the same thing on two maths/physics forum is the logical thing to do

I assure you I am no spammer

8 minutes ago, studiot said:

Hopefully you have read the rules here, in which case you will know you have only 2 more posts available in the next 22 hours.

So I suggest you think very carefully before making any more and come up with some proper explanation of what this is all about.

You have already been asked for that by two other members.

I have been given these numbers and the arrow things by someone I know

He told me what to write down

He likes setting puzzles

I trust him

But who exactly he is is not important

I have been told there is a solution

And the hint is that it's something to do with black-holes

Maybe what he's put together is wrong, I wouldn't know

I'm just putting it out there, for anyone who's interested

And I can understand your scepticism

It literally means nothing to me

Do with it as you will

[joigus]

2 hours ago, KLIVE-alive said:

Perhaps someone here will be able to solve it?

Nothing to solve, as no problem has been posed.

[moth]

Maybe your source is saying black holes kill time?

There is another thread here about Newcomb's law which would suggest these numbers are "made up".

Here is my count. Sure looks like a Bell curve.
first digit, count
1, 1
2, 1
3, 1
4, 3
5, 3
6, 5
7, 3
8, 2
9, 2
0, 1

[KLIVE-alive]

18 hours ago, moth said:

Maybe your source is saying black holes kill time?

There is another thread here about Newcomb's law which would suggest these numbers are "made up".

Here is my count. Sure looks like a Bell curve.
first digit, count
1, 1
2, 1
3, 1
4, 3
5, 3
6, 5
7, 3
8, 2
9, 2
0, 1

Sorry if this is a stupid or ignorant question, but does the fact that the numbers in the puzzle are distributed (is that the right word?) so as to form a bell-curve indicate that the numbers may have been somehow intelligently chosen - or "made up", as you put it? As opposed to being randomly chosen?

Edited September 7, 2020 by KLIVE-alive

[Markus Hanke]

1 hour ago, KLIVE-alive said:

Sorry if this is a stupid or ignorant question, but does the fact that the numbers in the puzzle are distributed (is that the right word?) so as to form a bell-curve indicate that the numbers may have been somehow intelligently chosen - or "made up", as you put it? As opposed to being randomly chosen?

It’s consistent with the numbers being essentially random.

[KLIVE-alive]

27 minutes ago, Markus Hanke said:

It’s consistent with the numbers being essentially random.

OK, I got the wrong end of the stick there...

So just to clairfy, the fact that the first digits of the numbers formed a bell-curve indicates that it is likely they were randomly selected, as opposed to produced in some non-random way?

So basically, it's gibberish? And there's nothing notable or significant in the arrangement of the first digits?

[studiot]

20 hours ago, moth said:

Maybe your source is saying black holes kill time?

There is another thread here about Newcomb's law which would suggest these numbers are "made up".

Here is my count. Sure looks like a Bell curve.
first digit, count
1, 1
2, 1
3, 1
4, 3
5, 3
6, 5
7, 3
8, 2
9, 2
0, 1

Interesting thanks. +1

 

49 minutes ago, Markus Hanke said:

It’s consistent with the numbers being essentially random.

How does a 'bell type curve' of 22 digits around an average of 5.36 indicate a random choice of first digit?

Edited September 7, 2020 by studiot

[Curious layman]

Very confused right now.

Can someone please explain how you get these numbers:

21 hours ago, moth said:

first digit, count

1, 1
2, 1
3, 1
4, 3
5, 3
6, 5
7, 3
8, 2
9, 2
0, 1

From these numbers:

On 9/6/2020 at 11:57 AM, KLIVE-alive said:

 

???

Thanks.

[studiot]

31 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

Very confused right now.

Can someone please explain how you get these numbers:

From these numbers:

???

Thanks.

Sure.

There are 22 different numbers on the sheet (ignore the arrows).

So there is only one that begins with a zero     -  0.668 near the top right.

Further down on the right there are three numbers that begin with a 4,  one above the other.

447  ;  423298  ;  487643

 

and so on for the rest.

 

Moths table has two columns.

The left hand table lists the digits 0 through 9, though why he has put 0 at the end I don't know.

The right hand column shows the number of occurences of these digits in the 22 numbers on the sheet.

It is called a frequency table and the numbers in the right hand column are the frequencies of occurence of each specific digit.

Edited September 7, 2020 by studiot

[Curious layman]

Thanks Studiot, no longer confused. 

Seems simple now. +1

 

[moth]

3 hours ago, KLIVE-alive said:

OK, I got the wrong end of the stick there...

So just to clairfy, the fact that the first digits of the numbers formed a bell-curve indicates that it is likely they were randomly selected, as opposed to produced in some non-random way?

So basically, it's gibberish? And there's nothing notable or significant in the arrangement of the first digits?

I couldn't say the numbers on the list ARE random, just that they APPEAR to be random. If you believe it's actually a puzzle, it may be one.
As far as why Newcomb/Benford's law works, I don't have a clue. I just heard of it the other day and when i tried it out on some wikipedia pages it seemed to hold.

[KLIVE-alive]

23 minutes ago, moth said:

I couldn't say the numbers on the list ARE random, just that they APPEAR to be random. If you believe it's actually a puzzle, it may be one.
As far as why Newcomb/Benford's law works, I don't have a clue. I just heard of it the other day and when i tried it out on some wikipedia pages it seemed to hold.

OK, thanks

[moth]

4 hours ago, studiot said:

Interesting thanks. +1

 

How does a 'bell type curve' of 22 digits around an average of 5.36 indicate a random choice of first digit?

I wouldn't try to speak for Markus, but i assumed he meant random as in not connected to a particular topic. Not random as in their distribution, which would look spikey like noise i think.

[studiot]

23 minutes ago, moth said:

I wouldn't try to speak for Markus, but i assumed he meant random as in not connected to a particular topic. Not random as in their distribution, which would look spikey like noise i think.

If the digits were truly chosen at random, with a sample size of 22 I would expect pretty well all the numbers between 0 and 9 to appear twice.

Spikey is a good word for it because there would be some 3s and some ones,
But it would not cluster round a centre number like this data set.

As a matter of comparison.

When folks are asked to choose a number between 1 and 10, by far the most popular choice is 7. (Wikipedia)

So a bell curve would indicate something like that going on.

 

Another indicator is the frequency of entries in each decade  ( I haven't checked this)

 

A sample size of 22 is getting towards usual control sample sizes (30 is the British Standard for concrete cubes and other 'cusum' quality control charts )  for the normal distribution.

But I'm beginning to sound like the weather man on TV with loads of useless facts and figures.

Edited September 7, 2020 by studiot

[moth]

21 minutes ago, studiot said:

Another indicator is the frequency of entries in each decade  ( I haven't checked this)

I don't want to get too far off topic, but do you mean the count of 1-digit, 2-digit, ... n-digit numbers?

[studiot]

32 minutes ago, moth said:

I don't want to get too far off topic, but do you mean the count of 1-digit, 2-digit, ... n-digit numbers?

Yeah, thousands, hundreds tens, units  fractions, and so on.

 

I don't see it as off topic though.

Edited September 7, 2020 by studiot

[moth]

39 minutes ago, studiot said:

Yeah, thousands, hundreds tens, units  fractions, and so on.

 

I don't see it as off topic though.

I think the wiki page about Pareto distribution confirms you. In the exponential distribution section .

 

[studiot]

10 hours ago, moth said:

I think the wiki page about Pareto distribution confirms you. In the exponential distribution section .

 

Thank you for that most interesting link. +1

I had not come across the material and Wiki is to be congratulated on bringing a lot of stuff together.