English, Jim, but not as we know it.

[studiot]

I wonder what English speakers around the world think of this ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53941008

 

The article compares existing spelling with proposed new versions, using passages from Shakespeare's Hamlet.

So troubles becomes trubles.

The are examples of some writing characters that are even worse than my hand script as well.

 

[MigL]

Italian is pronounced as it's spelled, but French is similar to English; sounding it out might not lead you to he correct spelling.
At nine years of age, I did not find English very hard to learn; my brother ,sister and I were nearly fluent after 6 months of immigrating to Canada. My mom reached an equivalent level after about 5 years while my dad never achieved fluency.

I think a bigger problem is spell-check/auto-correct.
Just like calculators made sure that young people working at McDonald's can't make correct change mentally, spelling aids on phones and computers are ensuring young people don't know how to spell.

( but more importantly, who is Jim ? )

[joigus]

Great idea! Let's have it.

And then Americans, Australians, etc. follow suit and make their own phonetic script.

I don't think Jim will be thrilled about it, TBH.

 

[studiot]

13 hours ago, MigL said:

( but more importantly, who is Jim ? )

Did you never watch Star Trek ?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=b41YX66dE9GdjLsPnMObsA4&q=this+is+life+jim+but+not+as+we+know+it&oq=this+is+life+Jim+but+&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgIIADIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB46DgguELEDEMcBEKMCEJMCOggIABCxAxCDAToLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6BQgAELEDOggILhDHARCjAjoICC4QsQMQgwE6CwguELEDEMcBEK8BOggILhCxAxCTAjoFCC4QsQM6AgguOggILhDHARCvAToLCC4QxwEQrwEQkwI6BQguEJMCUIYKWM5KYK5eaABwAHgBgAHeBYgB4CSSAQ0yLjcuMi4xLjIuMi4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab

11 hours ago, joigus said:

Great idea! Let's have it.

And then Americans, Australians, etc. follow suit and make their own phonetic script.

I don't think Jim will be thrilled about it, TBH.

 

The great thing about English is that its evolution was brought about by user development, not by dictat from an official language institution.

In time I don't doubt that many of today's inconsistencies will die out.

The relationship between pronunciation and spelling is also varied.

For instance

Sulphur  v sulfur are both pronounced the same way

Aluminium  v aluminum are not

[joigus]

2 hours ago, studiot said:

The great thing about English is that its evolution was brought about by user development, not by dictat from an official language institution.

In time I don't doubt that many of today's inconsistencies will die out.

The relationship between pronunciation and spelling is also varied.

For instance

Sulphur  v sulfur are both pronounced the same way

Aluminium  v aluminum are not

I agree, although that's true of pretty much every language.

I people keep speaking Klingon, it will likely evolve as every other language has.

As to English phonetics, the most amazing thing to me is that "row" and "row" can be pronounced differently. Same symbols; different pronunciation depending on meaning.

[Area54]

20 minutes ago, joigus said:

I agree, although that's true of pretty much every language.

Don't the French have an official Institue that is meant to safegaurd the language, stamping upon such usages as "le weekend"?

And Arabic, while not protected in any official way, has the formal written language referenced to the usage and style of the Koran. The spoken language can difer quite dramatically from country to country.

[joigus]

14 minutes ago, Area54 said:

Don't the French have an official Institue that is meant to safegaurd the language, stamping upon such usages as "le weekend"?

And Arabic, while not protected in any official way, has the formal written language referenced to the usage and style of the Koran. The spoken language can difer quite dramatically from country to country.

It's true that there are differences in linguistic politics. German, ie., is also on the normative side. But I think the usage is the driving force. To use an analogy, I think it's something like the storm is leading you somewhere you can't predict, but there are different strategies as to how to steer against these forces.

[studiot]

44 minutes ago, joigus said:

the most amazing thing to me is that "row" and "row" can be pronounced differently.

It's more fun that that because there are yet more pronunciations of 'ro..'     as in 'roan',  'Ron', 'roil' and 'royal'

All this arises becasue there are many more sounds available than there are letter of the alphabet.

 

We also have route and route, pronounced differently (unlike the Americans)

Edited September 9, 2020 by studiot

[John Cuthber]

19 hours ago, studiot said:

So troubles becomes trubles.

To rhyme with rubles I presume...

There's a reason why rubble has a double B.

It's absurd; they are all bad attempts to reinvent this wheel;.
ˈtrʌb(ə)l

On the other hand, I gather that spelling contests are only national TV in anglophone countries...

 

It's quite entertaining to get anyone- particularly a well educated native English speaker- to read this out loud.
"I take it you already know

Of tough and bough and cough and dough

Others may stumble, but not you

On hiccough, thorough, laugh, and through.

And cork and work and card and ward

And font and front and word and sword

Well done! And now  you wish, perhaps

To learn of less familiar traps,

Beware of heard, a dreadful word

That looks like beard and sounds like bird.

And dead: it’s said like bed, not bead–

For goodness sakes don’t call it deed.

Watch out for meat and great and threat,

They rhyme with suite and straight and debt.

A moth is not a moth in mother,

Nor both in bother, broth in brother.

And here is not a match for there,

And dear and fear for bear and pear.

And then there’s dose and rose and lose–

Just look them up–and goose and choose,

And do and go, then thwart and cart.

Come, come, I’ve hardly made a start!

A dreadful language?

Man alive! I’d mastered it when I was five."
 

38 minutes ago, studiot said:

We also have route and route, pronounced differently (unlike the Americans)

We also have route pronounced the way Americans pronounce route and the two bits of equipment, a  router and a router with different pronunciations.

It depends if it's a modem like thingy where it's pronounced like roux; or a woodworking tool where it's pronounced like row.

 

 

[MigL]

5 hours ago, studiot said:

Did you never watch Star Trek ?

Yes, still do.
( but not Discovery, no way )
That was never said in the original series.

"One of the song's phrases, "It's life, Jim, but not as we know it", originated with "Star Trekkin'", but has been subsequently misattributed to the TV series."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trekkin'

[studiot]

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

"I take it you already know

Of tough and bough and cough and dough

Others may stumble, but not you

On hiccough, thorough, laugh, and through.

And cork and work and card and ward

And font and front and word and sword

Well done! And now  you wish, perhaps

To learn of less familiar traps,

Beware of heard, a dreadful word

That looks like beard and sounds like bird.

And dead: it’s said like bed, not bead–

For goodness sakes don’t call it deed.

Watch out for meat and great and threat,

They rhyme with suite and straight and debt.

A moth is not a moth in mother,

Nor both in bother, broth in brother.

And here is not a match for there,

And dear and fear for bear and pear.

And then there’s dose and rose and lose–

Just look them up–and goose and choose,

And do and go, then thwart and cart.

Come, come, I’ve hardly made a start!

A dreadful language?

Man alive! I’d mastered it when I was five."

Nice to have the Scots viewpoint.

+1