Interfering in other people's politics.

[studiot]

Quote

Biden says US trade deal hinges on UK 'respect' for Good Friday Agreement

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

 

Would have thought there was more than enough wrong in the USA for Biden to get his teeth into at the moment.

If there is no trade deal, one advantage would be further delay in being stuck with US food and agricultural standards and practices,  I don't wish to adopt.

 

[MigL]

I didn't know the UK was considering overriding international law, and not following the agreement that has brought peace to Northern Ireland, in an effort to get itself out of the mess that Brexit has become.

Any 'good' US president will comment on international matters with respect to keeping peace and stability in the rest of the world.
The current president just threatens the rest of the world.

[dimreepr]

29 minutes ago, MigL said:

I didn't know the UK was considering overriding international law, and not following the agreement that has brought peace to Northern Ireland, in an effort to get itself out of the mess that Brexit has become.

Couldn't agree more, so any help is welcome...

It's like we've forgotten how dependent we are on impoted food; we need to learn from history, not be entrapped by it...

[studiot]

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Couldn't agree more, so any help is welcome...

It's like we've forgotten how dependent we are on impoted food; we need to learn from history, not be entrapped by it...

 

Which is no doubt why the EU wishes to break International Law and steal our fish  ??

 

I have yet to see any evidence that Boris' Bill breaks any Law national or international.
Reporting on this issue is soley by comments from former leave campaigners who would no doubt like to hand the UK over on a plate.

[Endy0816]

1 hour ago, studiot said:

 

Which is no doubt why the EU wishes to break International Law and steal our fish  ??

I have yet to see any evidence that Boris' Bill breaks any Law national or international.
Reporting on this issue is soley by comments from former leave campaigners who would no doubt like to hand the UK over on a plate.

UK fishermen had sold their fishing quotas over. The EU at the time even advised against countries permitting this sort of thing, but the UK thought it knew better. UK hasn't exactly been building up its fishing fleet either, so I doubt anything will even change after all this.

Quote

When asked if the proposed legislation would defy or breach international laws, Lewis said,”Yes, this does break international law in a very specific and limited way”.

https://www.wionews.com/world/uk-bill-would-break-international-law-in-a-specific-and-limited-way-minister-says-326041

 

Realistically we've been involved from the outset of the GFA. Pretty sure US is down as a guarantor as well. Would have a long-term negative impact on our reputation if it fails, besides simply wanting peace for the sake of peace.

UK really needs a major treaty to get itself on its feet, even if we ignore the poor starving as prices jump and delays begin. There are few other countries big enough or close enough as the US. We can both supply the UK with food and take in UK exports. Trade deal with the US was even something of campaign promise so they're only giving the people what they voted for.

Practically speaking a gaping hole in the UK's border will be an issue for trade in general anyways. WTO Rules are about to kick in. Even in a best case scenario, I'm expecting to see a multitude of complaints lodged against the UK with repercussions to follow.

Border in the sea solves most of the problems and is what the WA set out in the first place.

 

[CharonY]

53 minutes ago, studiot said:

I have yet to see any evidence that Boris' Bill breaks any Law national or international.

That is weird, considering that almost all sources say that they are clearly a breach of existing agreements (in fact, some articles imply that Johnson in fact acknowledged the breach but claims that they are vital). Perhaps you can provide a source outlining how it is not a breach of agreements. Because at this point it seems to me a rather extraordinary claim.

 

Edit: crossposted. 

[dimreepr]

21 hours ago, studiot said:

I have yet to see any evidence that Boris' Bill breaks any Law national or international.
Reporting on this issue is soley by comments from former leave campaigners who would no doubt like to hand the UK over on a plate.

As apposed to the current plan? 

Jumping into bed with America sound's a lot worse than the pre-brexit status-quo; I, truly, hope you're right though, because 'I told you so' would seem a little hollow tucking into my super-sized pizza/vegetables. 

[Curious layman]

On 9/17/2020 at 9:58 AM, studiot said:

If there is no trade deal, one advantage would be further delay in being stuck with US food and agricultural standards and practices,  I don't wish to adopt.

Why? I don't see what the problem is. From what I've heard, it'll be the cheaper stuff anyway(chlorinated chicken), just don't buy it if you don't like it. With so many people experiencing food poverty in the U.K. cheaper food will help a lot of people.

It makes me laugh, the amount of people I know who criticize American food, but will sit there dribbling while watching mans Vs food. 😂

Yum.

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, Curious layman said:

Why? I don't see what the problem is. From what I've heard, it'll be the cheaper stuff anyway(chlorinated chicken), just don't buy it if you don't like it. With so many people experiencing food poverty in the U.K. cheaper food will help a lot of people.

It's a foot in the door. I know, defending against the steady erosion of regulations may seem like a Slippery Slope fallacy, but it's a LOT like burning books. Once you start, it just gets easier to justify more and more. 

[John Cuthber]

On 9/17/2020 at 5:17 PM, studiot said:

Which is no doubt why the EU wishes to break International Law and steal our fish  ??

Why tell that lie?

 

On 9/17/2020 at 5:17 PM, studiot said:

I have yet to see any evidence that Boris' Bill breaks any Law national or international.

Thank you for clarifying the extent of your understanding of the issue.

 

3 hours ago, Curious layman said:

just don't buy it if you don't like it

The issue is also about labelling and animal welfare.

Did you realise that?

3 hours ago, Curious layman said:

With so many people experiencing food poverty in the U.K. cheaper food will help a lot of people.

There is no reason to assume it will be cheaper, but typically, the people will be in more poverty.

[Curious layman]

10 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

The issue is also about labelling.

Why wouldn't it have country of origin written on it. Every item of food I buy has this. If people don't trust American food then they can choose something else. It's not hard to buy good quality food. 

18 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

and animal welfare.

If people cared about animal welfare as much as they say they do, they wouldn't  buy half the food they do. 

[Endy0816]

56 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

Why wouldn't it have country of origin written on it. Every item of food I buy has this. If people don't trust American food then they can choose something else. It's not hard to buy good quality food.

You have answered your own question. If the FTA gets rid of the labels, then there is no ability to discriminate.

 

[Curious layman]

24 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

 If the FTA gets rid of the labels, then there is no ability to discriminate.

 

If people are so concerned about not buying American food, then there will be incentive for food manufacturers who use better food practices to advertise it on their product. Like they already do with organic or corn fed etc...

 

 

[zapatos]

I hear this argument about American food standards versus European food standards often and was wondering if anyone knows if the difference translates into health differences for consumers.

Edited September 19, 2020 by zapatos

[StringJunky]

35 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I hear this argument about American food standards versus European food standards often and was wondering if anyone know if the difference translates into health differences for consumers.

Take chlorine-washing chicken:  the EU's problem with that is it can tempt poultry workers to be sloppy in their methods, who may act that way on the basis that any pathogens are going to be killed  by the chlorine-washing.. If they had good aseptic-handling protocols, washing wouldn't be needed. The trouble is that's too expensive for US producers. It boils down to individual country's expectations ...and sometimes never the twain can meet. As a typical American, think of their perceived British attitude towards their teeth. That's how we feel about your chicken.

Edited September 19, 2020 by StringJunky

[John Cuthber]

2 hours ago, Curious layman said:

Why wouldn't it have country of origin written on it. Every item of food I buy has this. If people don't trust American food then they can choose something else. It's not hard to buy good quality food. 

Have you seen such a label in a restaurant?
 

 

42 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I hear this argument about American food standards versus European food standards often and was wondering if anyone knows if the difference translates into health differences for consumers.

"Figures suggest that the percentage of people who fall ill with food poisoning annually is up to ten times higher in the US than the UK."

from
https://www.sustainweb.org/news/feb18_US_foodpoisoning/

And, not to put too fine a point on it; I'm not very concerned about chlorinated chicken; I'm concerned about chlorinated chicken sh1t.

[zapatos]

16 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Take chlorine-washing chicken:  the EU's problem with that is it can tempt poultry workers to be sloppy in their methods, who may act that way on the basis that any pathogens are going to be killed  by the chlorine-washing.. If they had good aseptic-handling protocols, washing wouldn't be needed. The trouble is that's too expensive for US producers. It boils down to individual country's expectations ...and sometimes never the twain can meet. As a typical American, think of their perceived British attitude towards their teeth. That's how we feel about your chicken.

Sounds similar to not wanting to teach children about contraception due to the concern that it can tempt teens to be sloppy  with their behavior, who may act that way on the basis that any sperm will be captured by condoms anyway. 😀

Is there any evidence that American poultry workers are indeed sloppy in their methods, or that any sloppiness translates into poor health outcomes?

3 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

"Figures suggest that the percentage of people who fall ill with food poisoning annually is up to ten times higher in the US than the UK."

from
https://www.sustainweb.org/news/feb18_US_foodpoisoning/

Yep, that looks pretty damning.

[StringJunky]

13 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Sounds similar to not wanting to teach children about contraception due to the concern that it can tempt teens to be sloppy  with their behavior, who may act that way on the basis that any sperm will be captured by condoms anyway. 😀

 

LOL

[Curious layman]

36 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Have you seen such a label in a restaurant?
 

Ask if your concerned. Its not rocket science.

[John Cuthber]

15 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

Ask if your concerned. Its not rocket science.

Are you really not concerned?
Are you really happy with bird shit in your food?

[Endy0816]

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

"Figures suggest that the percentage of people who fall ill with food poisoning annually is up to ten times higher in the US than the UK."

 

from
https://www.sustainweb.org/news/feb18_US_foodpoisoning/

And, not to put too fine a point on it; I'm not very concerned about chlorinated chicken; I'm concerned about chlorinated chicken sh1t.

I've seen those numbers but there's also the counter argument that the methodology behind determining those numbers differs.

https://fullfact.org/health/food-poisoning-US-UK/

 

Real problem is the sheer size difference of the markets. None of us might care for US food standards and yet we can still be sure that they are likely to be adopted in an expansive agreement.

 

3 hours ago, Curious layman said:

If people are so concerned about not buying American food, then there will be incentive for food manufacturers who use better food practices to advertise it on their product. Like they already do with organic or corn fed etc...

Have a feeling they'll request mutual acceptance of certifications as well. Besides most people going purely off of price, our companies are also no strangers to buying up UK brands for camouflage.

 

Here is the summary of US negotiating objectives, if anyone is interested.

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Summary_of_U.S.-UK_Negotiating_Objectives.pdf

Edited September 19, 2020 by Endy0816

[MigL]

If the concern is unsafe food handling in the US, the regulations adopted by the EU should reflect that.

The amount of Chlorine in drinking water is considered safe up to 4 mg/l or 4 ppm.
The amount of Chlorine used to wash chicken surfaces is as little as 20 mg/l.

Just wondering...
How much water do you drink per day ?
( as opposed to how much residual Chlorine is on your chicken )

If you're going to be concerned about chicken...
As a little kid, I lived on a farm, and little chicks ( hatchlings ) would be about the size of your fist for several weeks, and not fully grown for 6 months. Fully grown chickens are delivered to Swiss Chalet's ( Canadian chicken restaurant chain ) processing plant 4 weeks after hatching.
Bit of a discrepancy there, and maybe something to actually be concerned about.
( yeah, I don't eat much chicken )

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, zapatos said:

Sounds similar to not wanting to teach children about contraception due to the concern that it can tempt teens to be sloppy  with their behavior, who may act that way on the basis that any sperm will be captured by condoms anyway. 😀

Is there any evidence that American poultry workers are indeed sloppy in their methods, or that any sloppiness translates into poor health outcomes?

Yep, that looks pretty damning.

I think it is not quite easy to make a blanket statement regarding the effectiveness of regulations in either area. The overall safety standards are similar but there are differences in certain details such as the mentioned chloriniation, use of growth hormones, allowed additives some of the labelling and processing standards and so on. A general issue with some of these agreements is that there is the worry that in order to allow bilateral trade the lowest common denominator might be used, which affect food safety but also has environmental and animal welfare concerns.

[Sensei]

On 9/19/2020 at 9:58 PM, zapatos said:

I hear this argument about American food standards versus European food standards often and was wondering if anyone knows if the difference translates into health differences for consumers.

Check adults obesity rates between EU and US.

https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/two-maps-and-one-graph-comparing-obesity-in-america-and-europe

 

If maps won't show up, use this link instead:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bigthink.com/two-maps-and-one-graph-comparing-obesity-in-america-and-europe.amp.html

Edited September 21, 2020 by Sensei

[zapatos]

29 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Check obesity rates between EU and US.

https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/two-maps-and-one-graph-comparing-obesity-in-america-and-europe

 

Interesting but I didn't see the connection to food standards between the US and the EU.

Edited September 21, 2020 by zapatos