Misinformed Hijack (from Are we facing a new pandemic next winter from covid mutations?)

[The Atom]

There are bacteria such as Wolbachia in insects that keep viruses from spreading. There is Clostridium tetani with it cholesterol binding exotoxin. There is Enterococcus faecalis with its detergent exotoxin that breaks down lipid protein coats like the one Corona has. Why are medical scientists ignoring those bacteria that might do something against Corona. Washing hands constantly is not good because it is drying out the skin and it kills good bacteria. Keeping a distance of at least six feet is good or effective. Masks wearing can spread Corona because from a mask, it can go to a dead person, inanimate object, or a living person. A mask traps it so that you do not get it right away. You get it in about a month later. That is what I think.

[swansont]

11 hours ago, The Atom said:

There are bacteria such as Wolbachia in insects that keep viruses from spreading. There is Clostridium tetani with it cholesterol binding exotoxin. There is Enterococcus faecalis with its detergent exotoxin that breaks down lipid protein coats like the one Corona has. Why are medical scientists ignoring those bacteria that might do something against Corona.

How is it that you know these aren't being considered (and possibly already ejected - what other effects might they cause)?

 

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Washing hands constantly is not good because it is drying out the skin and it kills good bacteria.

And which is the worse result? Dying or having dry skin?

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Keeping a distance of at least six feet is good or effective. Masks wearing can spread Corona because from a mask, it can go to a dead person, inanimate object, or a living person. A mask traps it so that you do not get it right away. You get it in about a month later. That is what I think.

What you think is irrelevant. Do you have evidence to back this up? The conclusion one might draw is not that masks are bad, it's that it's a good idea to wash your masks if they are to be re-usable, and discard ones that aren't.

[Dord]

11 hours ago, The Atom said:

Washing hands constantly is not good because it is drying out the skin and it kills good bacteria. Keeping a distance of at least six feet is good or effective. Masks wearing can spread Corona because from a mask, it can go to a dead person, inanimate object, or a living person. A mask traps it so that you do not get it right away. You get it in about a month later. That is what I think.

As you indicate, masks are not the sole solution.  Rather they are part of a holistic approach to prevent the spread; such as social distancing, personal hygiene and not touching the mask with one's hands when it's on.

I wonder, though, if the recent increase in cleaning may have a long term detrimental impact on health.  Not just the sudden and protracted exposure to (new) chemicals but also the potential to lower one's resistance to harmful bacteria, viruses etc.

My mum used to say that you have to eat a bit of dirt to stay healthy.  Like many folk lore sayings, this appears to have some truth behind it - geophagy
 

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Overall, the protection hypothesis fits the data best, the Cornell researchers found. The database shows that geophagy is documented most commonly in women in the early stages of pregnancy and in pre-adolescent children. Both categories of people are especially sensitive to parasites and pathogens, according to Young and her colleagues. In addition, geophagy is most common in tropical climates where foodborne microbes are abundant. Finally, the database shows that people often eat earth during episodes of gastrointestinal stress. It's unlikely the intestinal problems are caused by the dirt itself because the type of clay people usually eat comes from deep in the ground, where pathogens and parasites are unlikely to contaminate it. Plus, people usually boil the clay before eating it.

More study would be helpful to confirm the protection hypothesis, the researchers say, but the available data at this point clearly support it over the other explanations.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110602162820.htm

 

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Dord said:

I wonder, though, if the recent increase in cleaning may have a long term detrimental impact on health.  Not just the sudden and protracted exposure to (new) chemicals but also the potential to lower one's resistance to harmful bacteria, viruses etc.

As an anecdote to the contrary, I haven't had a cold since this all started, which is unusual. 

Not sure if it's the hand-washing, the mask-wearing, the social-distancing, or the shutdown meaning kids weren't mixing and sharing their germs with their parents, who might then share them with me. Probably a combination of all three.

Lowering resistance might not be an issue if you avoid being exposed to a virus in the first place. 

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

As an anecdote to the contrary, I haven't had a cold since this all started, which is unusual. 

Not sure if it's the hand-washing, the mask-wearing, the social-distancing, or the shutdown meaning kids weren't mixing and sharing their germs with their parents, who might then share them with me. Probably a combination of all three.

Lowering resistance might not be an issue if you avoid being exposed to a virus in the first place. 

We can't sanitise the planet and still live here... Avoidance only delay's our exposure, maybe that's enough to maintain the world we know, I'm not suggesting we don't try, I'm just suggesting we don't know... 

Was the world better, before or after the plague???

[Dord]

9 hours ago, swansont said:

Lowering resistance might not be an issue if you avoid being exposed to a virus in the first place. 

It's a good job H.G. Wells' Martians didn't take your advice on avoidance or we'd all be vaporised or be sucked dry of blood.  Thank heavens for dirty germs. 

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...slain, after all man's devices had failed, by the humblest things that God, in his wisdom, has put upon this earth...

The War of the Worlds

 

[CharonY]

10 hours ago, Dord said:

My mum used to say that you have to eat a bit of dirt to stay healthy.  Like many folk lore sayings, this appears to have some truth behind it - geophagy

I think is there might be a bit of misconception here. The immune system is not like a muscle that deteriorates with disuse. What you seem to refer to is often termed the hygiene hypothesis. However, what it means is that if you are not exposed to foreign antigens, what happens is that your immune system may overreact and then react overly harsh to something it perceives as harmful, even if it isn't. As such it is a hypothesis that tries to explain things like autoimmune disorders or allergies. But it generally does not apply to infectious diseases.

There is basically one exception, when it comes to related diseases. Specifically, if you develop immunity against a disease, there is a chance that some of the antigens you are exposed to, might also be conserved among similar diseases. For example, coronaviruses have certain similar structures (e.g. certain parts of the nucleocapsid). So there is the possibility that if you have been exposed to a less harmful coronavirus, you might be have developed antibodies against to to others, too. However in case of SARS-CoV-2 there has (to my knowledge) no verified cases yet.

[The Atom]

Thanks for all the interesting replies! Trust me folks, there is a Wolbachia bacteria that keeps a variety of viruses from spreading! Medical Scientists and Logistics Medical Persons in the military should look into it. Wolbachia is harmless to humans. I just do not know if it can be put in the human body. Unless, maybe an insect bite from a common fly or mosquitoe can put it in. Maybe even if a bee stings you, it can be inserted.

[CharonY]

45 minutes ago, The Atom said:

Thanks for all the interesting replies! Trust me folks, there is a Wolbachia bacteria that keeps a variety of viruses from spreading! Medical Scientists and Logistics Medical Persons in the military should look into it. Wolbachia is harmless to humans. I just do not know if it can be put in the human body. Unless, maybe an insect bite from a common fly or mosquitoe can put it in. Maybe even if a bee stings you, it can be inserted.

You realize that Wolbachia hosts are invertebrates and in those are not exactly harmless (and conversely, if they could colonize humans they would likely not be harmless anymore)? Also that the immune system in invertebrates is quite different from mammals?

[The Atom]

10 minutes ago, CharonY said:

You realize that Wolbachia hosts are invertebrates and in those are not exactly harmless (and conversely, if they could colonize humans they would likely not be harmless anymore)? Also that the immune system in invertebrates is quite different from mammals?

Then it can't work. That is what I was looking for. A simple to intermediate answer. What about Enterococcus faecalis and its potent detergent exotoxin that breaks down exactly the type of lipid protein coat that Corona has! Plus, Enterococcus faecalis does a lot to maintain itself! Then too, there is tetanolysin. Tetanolysin binds to cholesterol. 

[dimreepr]

6 hours ago, The Atom said:

Thanks for all the interesting replies! Trust me folks, there is a Wolbachia bacteria that keeps a variety of viruses from spreading!

Mostly in insects

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Wolbachia has been linked to viral resistance in Drosophila melanogaster, Drosophila simulans, and mosquito species. Flies infected with the bacteria are more resistant to RNA viruses such as Drosophila C virus, norovirus, flock house virus, cricket paralysis virus, chikungunya virus, and West Nile virus.^[30][31][32]

 

[CharonY]

15 hours ago, The Atom said:

Then it can't work. That is what I was looking for. A simple to intermediate answer. What about Enterococcus faecalis and its potent detergent exotoxin that breaks down exactly the type of lipid protein coat that Corona has! Plus, Enterococcus faecalis does a lot to maintain itself! Then too, there is tetanolysin. Tetanolysin binds to cholesterol. 

Bad idea for a whole range of reasons. The most obvious one is that putting opportunistic pathogens into areas where they belong can facilitate colonization and infection by said pathogen. Lung tissue is especially vulnerable and putting bacteria in there where they do not belong is a really, really bad idea. Even normal members of the biota can be dangerous when there is some upset in the balance.

[paulsutton]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:09 PM, swansont said:

As an anecdote to the contrary, I haven't had a cold since this all started, which is unusual. 

Not sure if it's the hand-washing, the mask-wearing, the social-distancing, or the shutdown meaning kids weren't mixing and sharing their germs with their parents, who might then share them with me. Probably a combination of all three.

Lowering resistance might not be an issue if you avoid being exposed to a virus in the first place. 

I am not a expert in immunity and immunology but I think you make a good point here,  exposure to dirt / germs helps build the immune system.

[The Atom]

On 8/21/2020 at 1:12 PM, CharonY said:

Bad idea for a whole range of reasons. The most obvious one is that putting opportunistic pathogens into areas where they belong can facilitate colonization and infection by said pathogen. Lung tissue is especially vulnerable and putting bacteria in there where they do not belong is a really, really bad idea. Even normal members of the biota can be dangerous when there is some upset in the balance.

That is what has happened to me. I am loaded with a variety of anaerobic bacteria! Because of that, I think I have something that can protect me from Corona. It is well known from research that bacteria can defend against a virus in a variety of ways. Like a simple saying goes: I am full of s... literally, whereas some persons who are evil are often said to be full of s...figuratively. Just a little joke, except I don't know how to write it.

On 8/19/2020 at 6:40 AM, swansont said:

How is it that you know these aren't being considered (and possibly already ejected - what other effects might they cause)?

 

And which is the worse result? Dying or having dry skin?

What you think is irrelevant. Do you have evidence to back this up? The conclusion one might draw is not that masks are bad, it's that it's a good idea to wash your masks if they are to be re-usable, and discard ones that aren't.

Dying as a result is not going to be a result, but having dry skin is! What I think is relevant for me. So, when I write that washing hands constantly is not good, I am meaning for me and my body. Because I know my medical condition and because I am pointing out that washing hands with hand sanitizer or anything else that is similar, is going to strip the skin's natural moisture. I did dish-washing in resataurants for many years, so I know what happens to my hands and the rest of my arms up to my elbows. And, that was with gloves on. The result is the same without gloves.

Edited August 23, 2020 by The Atom
To add an n to know after well know

[swansont]

8 hours ago, The Atom said:

Dying as a result is not going to be a result, but having dry skin is!

Dying is not a possible result of catching the virus? I think you should reconsider the facts.

 

[dimreepr]

On 8/21/2020 at 6:12 PM, CharonY said:

Bad idea for a whole range of reasons. The most obvious one is that putting opportunistic pathogens into areas where they belong can facilitate colonization and infection by said pathogen. Lung tissue is especially vulnerable and putting bacteria in there where they do not belong is a really, really bad idea. Even normal members of the biota can be dangerous when there is some upset in the balance.

Perhaps it has a certain validity, as you would also be (equally???) exposed to bacteriophage's. 

Maybe we create the imbalance, in the act of protecting ourselves (not to be confused with protecting  ourselves from a virus) with over sanitation.

[CharonY]

4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Perhaps it has a certain validity, as you would also be (equally???) exposed to bacteriophage's. 

I am not sure what that would bring. Bacteriophages are viruses targeting bacteria..? Again, your immune system would only be primed against a pathogen if you are exposed to either the actual pathogen or a very closely related strain (i.e. the way vaccines work). Just being exposed to something else would not help (but as mentioned, could reduce unspecific immune responses and perhaps reduce allergies and autoimmune diseases).

[The Atom]

10 hours ago, swansont said:

Dying is not a possible result of catching the virus? I think you should reconsider the facts.

 

That is correct. Corona is not always necessarily deadly to each and every person. Each and every person is different.

[Strange]

6 minutes ago, The Atom said:

That is correct. Corona is not always necessarily deadly to each and every person. Each and every person is different.

So it IS a possible result of catching the virus. It could kill you (despite your delusional belief in your immunity) and it could kill someone you pass it on to.

[swansont]

14 minutes ago, The Atom said:

That is correct. Corona is not always necessarily deadly to each and every person. Each and every person is different.

Difficulty with reading comprehension might be a result of the virus.

[The Atom]

On 8/23/2020 at 4:43 PM, Strange said:

So it IS a possible result of catching the virus. It could kill you (despite your delusional belief in your immunity) and it could kill someone you pass it on to.

I have always had a high resistance to viruses. Anyways, when I write Corona is not necessarily deadly, it means just that. People should stop blowing it up out of what it is: a weak puny RNA virus.

On 8/23/2020 at 4:50 PM, swansont said:

Difficulty with reading comprehension might be a result of the virus.

Aphasia is not a symptom of Corona. Or, if it is, it has nothing to do with persons like me who have always had Aphasia. I think the biggest thing that caused my Aphasia in various forms or aspects is from a car accident when I was 9 in a second foster home. 

[Strange]

15 minutes ago, The Atom said:

I have always had a high resistance to viruses.

Good luck with that. Baseless beliefs rarely work as medical treatments.

15 minutes ago, The Atom said:

Anyways, when I write Corona is not necessarily deadly, it means just that.

It was more the "Dying as a result is not going to be a result" that was being challenged.

15 minutes ago, The Atom said:

People should stop blowing it up out of what it is: a weak puny RNA virus.

It is extremely contagious and has a high case fatality rate. Quite the reverse of "puny". Ask the USA or Brazil how "puny" it is.

[CharonY]

15 minutes ago, The Atom said:

I have always had a high resistance to viruses. Anyways, when I write Corona is not necessarily deadly, it means just that. People should stop blowing it up out of what it is: a weak puny RNA virus.

Attitudes such as these have led to over 800 thousand deaths and counting. It also the reason why folks do not vaccinate against influenza and thereby needlessly increasing death rates. It would only be sad, if folks who adhere to these beliefs were also the victims. Unfortunately dealing with diseases is a community effort. 

[The Atom]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:52 PM, CharonY said:

Attitudes such as these have led to over 800 thousand deaths and counting. It also the reason why folks do not vaccinate against influenza and thereby needlessly increasing death rates. It would only be sad, if folks who adhere to these beliefs were also the victims. Unfortunately dealing with diseases is a community effort. 

Each person is different. I already have a powerful infection that can make Corona the puny RNA virus that it is! The overall statistics is that the majority of people wearing masks can still get Corona and die from it. So, it is not a community effort. That is unfair to a person who is not involved.

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, The Atom said:

Each person is different. I already have a powerful infection that can make Corona the puny RNA virus that it is! The overall statistics is that the majority of people wearing masks can still get Corona and die from it. So, it is not a community effort. That is unfair to a person who is not involved.

I have to wonder, what benefit do you get from perpetrating falsehoods? Why do folks do waste their time making up stuff on social media? At best no one is listening, at worse, people believe it and do something that increases their risk. What is the possible scenario in which the person disseminating these falsehood is not the bad guy?

A disease outbreak involves everyone who does not happen to live alone on a deserted island. And thinking otherwise is the main reason why we are unable to quickly contain them. It is the reason why we have close to one million confirmed deaths from this one disease alone.