Defeating Capitalism

[NavajoEverclear]

well it depends on the physics of it. If it is too expensive and difficult to get to the stars, then I cn't se us doing it. Capitalism will probably kill any dreams that people have.

 

Rad Ed said that on some thread somehow relating humans technological advancements to evolution. Depressingly I think he's right. What is the cure for capitalism though? See and this is one of the things that leads me to think that our superior brain power gives us abilities that at least partially overwrite evolutionary nature. Isn't evolution supposed to kill the stuff that is dissadvantous to it. Well maybe evolution doesn't have space travel in its plans.

 

So anyway back to the focus. Capitalism (among other social structures) holds back our progression. What is the cure, obviosly other economic ideas have problems too, so how about we just through out all this money crap, and adopt a new system of dealing with the things we'd normally use money for. So what do we replace capitalism with?

[NavajoEverclear]

or are we just not supposed to have any dreams beyond what capitalism can provide. Who decided this? I don't see why they are right, so i think they are WRONG.

[M-CaTZ]

hey you #% this is SCIENCE FORUMS, GO TALK POLITICS SOMEWHERE ELSE

[blike]

This post is relating to science though. Carry on

[NavajoEverclear]

thanks for the support, but i'll still defend myself----- all areas of thought can essentially be science related if you look at them the right way. Politics is something that we humans do, it is something that effects us, hence effecting our social progression, which is possibly (certainly to some degree) directly related to our biological evolution.

[Aleph-Null]

I'm not sure you'll ever defeat the entrepeneurial spirit. Eternal damnation to anyone who would try. Capitalism is an invented dream of Karl Marx same as Communism / Socialism. Both are the result from the flawed thinking of a "fractured" mind who's limited intelligence was blind to the unity of Economics.

 

Thats why, any sensible entrepeneur, would be an Economist. Not a capitalist or communist or whateva.

 

:nono:

[Aleph-Null]

People who try to "rescue" and "defend" Karl Marx's bad ideas. (capitalism and socialism) are doomed to failure because there is nothing redeemable about them.

[NavajoEverclear]

i see. well lets forget the fact that we might not have the power to overthrow it, what should be done, if it could be done?

[Aleph-Null]

overthrow the entrepeneur or the capitalist?

 

if you attempt to overthrow the entrepeneur you will be sent to rest in hell for all of your eternally damned life.

 

as for the capitalist, this is human. at this very moment you are being a capitalist. Perhaps not in dollars, but you seek to 'capitalize' on emotion, ideology, etc,

 

The enemy is not "capitalist" so much as it is the values of individual capitalist. If you wish for a "reform" you might try appealing to the humanity of your "capitalist" to be a "philanthropist" and make being a "philanthropist" 'cool' and 'profitable' in some sort of way.... capitalist, of course, being an imaginary construct forced upon most americans by outsiders....

 

One could argue that you're being a "capitalist" right now, but most people with common sense knows that "capitalists" are "communists" and what is a communist collective but a "corporation" ?

 

Defeating capitalism or communism is like defeating yourself. Because both are human attributes. Capitalists live communely amongst eachother. I'd say, if you can't beat them join them. In either case, they are both subordinate components of economics and the economist.

 

Aside from that, its not a problem, giving up on your education and saying "destroy it" is the problem. You can't destroy history without destroying your own self, but you can "OUTSHINE" but you can't do that by being swallowed up by the controversy. Don't think you're going to get much help on this if your intent is to kill or make miserable someone's life because he individually chooses to be a free spirit and do things independently in his or her own way, like start a business in order to make money, so that he can build a house, contract workers to build a house, buy a car, acquire the money needed to send kids to a private school... perhaps you want people to do things for reasons other than money... well, thats why we have paper money.... perhaps one day it will be an electronic credit transaction and then, when the dream becomes reality, we'll live in Star Trek land with Replicators.

 

I've had this debate countless times, capitalism is required in order for "civilization builders" to do what they got to do to create airplanes, hire builders, give people an incentive to jump aboard to their cause by confirming that in doing so they will be able to meet their basic needs. capitalism haters make no sense, communism haters make no sense. The only thing that makes sense is every capitalist being capitalist for the benefit of the collective. I draw a parallel to say the founding fathers who devoted their "life, fortune, etc" to the new nation. You want to be a communist, make your "capitalizing" go towards benefiting the nation.

 

Self-proported proponents of one and not the other should each be shot, they're two sides to the same human coin. Sort of like, the Great Seal of the United States has two sides.

[BPHgravity]

The capitalistic economy is one of the best possible systems if done from a "bottom to top" idealology. The United States and other leading nations have lost there way and operate in a "top to bottom" method.

 

There are many examples where bringing people to a social structure instead of bringing the social structure to people have been very succesful.

 

Its the Fortune 500 and the big corporations that are ruining this world. Just my opinion.

[Aleph-Null]

Besides, if you're a "modern communist" you're a "begger" you are begging the "collective" to provide for you, and therefore you create two classes: "the provider" class and "the leach" class.

"the provider" class will be the "capitalists" because they will have to "acquire" the resources to provide for themselves / family as well as the "leaches"

[Aleph-Null]

the only way to beat out the capitalist you don't like, is to become the capitalist that every one likes.

[NavajoEverclear]

Could you dumb all that down for me (well simplify it anyway). I think you got some good points but i don't agree with others-- though i cant entirely tell what they are.

 

Capitalism restrict freedom, maybe less that other systems, but it does. I do not have freedom to do what ever work i want and get what i deserve for it, someone could make up their own job being more useful than a real job, and not get paid. Manufacturers charge much more for what they produce than what it costs to make. Rich people can be rich and not have to work near as hard as someone born poor, never gotten an education to get better work and working their butt off. There is no time to reform capitalism because we must live by it or die. ------- ok now i am babbling i think, but whether or not my evidence is crappy i do not see why are you defending unfair systems. Yes life is unfair, but cannot we design systems of society to minimize this factor?

 

Reason has been forgotten, and you are brainwashed to follow the logic of that which is already established. Well---- what was established cannot be perfect unless it was created by God--- or do you believe it was? The established is an evolved and refined generation from primitive creations. The creators did not have in mind designing society and economy ideally, they changed what the could within the 'rules'.

 

I'd probably be better spending my time brainstorming ideas about how to actually make work what i complain of, but i believe i have made my point that there is a better way, and i have faith that change is absolutely possible if we are willing.

 

Whatever you merited to justify our faulty way of economy is a clever lie (you didn't intend to tell), not looking at all sides of the story. But then again i already said i didn't very well understand everything you said so if you could simplify it for me I will reconsider my stance toward it.