Goude Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 This is one of those unknowable events to some and understandable to others. My father-in-law was at the end of his life in the hospital. He was comatose and expected to pass. My family was there with him. I had been up all night, so my wife asked me to go home and rest. They would call me if needed. I was asleep on the couch when awakened by my father-in-law's voice calling my name. When I sat up he said "Goude, it is time for you to go back to the hospital." I heard it clear and it was his voice. About 10-15 minutes later the phone rang explaining he had passed and I was to return to the hospital. Now was this event supernatural or just unexplained? If there is indeed life after death, it would be unexplained, not supernatural. Until we have the knowledge of an existence or no existence it is just unexplained. Some will try to say it was just a dream or brain issue all within myself, if so then it just must be unexplained not supernatural. The word supernatural indicates a belief in something beyond our natural world. Maybe a spiritual world? Our language is full of words pointing to something beyond our physical world. Supernatural is one of them. But if you don't believe in God, or other spiritual phenomenon why use them? ,
iNow Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 Maybe your body was just under stress and encoded the memories in the wrong chronological order
Goude Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 5:11 PM, iNow said: Maybe your body was just under stress and encoded the memories in the wrong chronological order One can come up with 100 reasons why a particular event happened, but in honesty they are all guesses. I do believe in a Creator and a spirit world because I have experienced these things many times in my life. I don't believe in the teachings of the church or any religion. It is far more logical and different, I don't understand anyone's problem with it.
iNow Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Goude said: One can come up with 100 reasons why a particular event happened, but in honesty they are all guesses. I do believe in a Creator and a spirit world You’re welcome to believe anything you want, but my “guess” at least doesn’t rely on fantasy and instead posits an explanation using known workings of our nervous system.
Goude Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 2 hours ago, iNow said: You’re welcome to believe anything you want, but my “guess” at least doesn’t rely on fantasy and instead posits an explanation using known workings of our nervous system. I am not a stranger to knowledge of brain functioning, I find it interesting what science has Learned. No, I don't imagine or fantasize about the spiritual happenings in my life. My Near Death Experience due to a heart attack started it, and it has never really stopped. I love to study brain anomalies, which can be explained by spiritual means , but I would like to hear the scientific explanation of the Savant Syndrome. "The skills of the savant may vary from being exceptionally gifted in music or in mathematics, or having a photographic memory. Most often, the savant is a person who suffers from extreme autism and cannot reach out to other people in a normal way." I remember reading about a young man adopted by an older couple because they were not allowed to adopt a normal child due to their age. They woke up one morning by beautiful piano music played by their mentally challenged son. He could play the classics without missing a note. The adoption agency said he had never seen a piano his whole life. He had been in their care since a very small child. I also know about Neurodevelopmental disorders which do not explain how the skill was learned.
iNow Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 34 minutes ago, Goude said: I would like to hear the scientific explanation of the Savant Syndrome. That’s great. Thanks for sharing, but it has nothing to do with either my reply or the thread topic.
Goude Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, iNow said: That’s great. Thanks for sharing, but it has nothing to do with either my reply or the thread topic. Kinda expected.I was really hoping for an answer of some kind. Maybe we can start a thread on this? It is very important and I am always kind. Edited July 25, 2021 by Goude
Goude Posted August 3, 2021 Posted August 3, 2021 Just in case someone may be interested, I found a video on the Savant piano player on my previous post. https://boingboing.net/2013/10/21/leslie-lemke-blind-savant-pi.html
beecee Posted August 3, 2021 Posted August 3, 2021 (edited) Many things happen that we don't understand properly, and many more things have happened in the past, that science has in time explained. The awesome nature of the world and universe around us, the evolution of life, the wonders of the brain, conciousness and such, has many of us searching for answers. Science has answered most, but not all. The beauty of science though [which strangely, you seem to dismiss] is that it can and is modified/changed as further observational and experimental evidence comes to light. Your NDE experience, is obviously subjective, and your attempt to explain it via supernatural, unscientific means is likewise subjective. There is no doubt other reasons, some of which have already been aired here. Edited August 3, 2021 by beecee
Goude Posted October 14, 2021 Posted October 14, 2021 On 10/15/2020 at 9:30 PM, VenusPrincess said: According to the Copenhagen interpretation a quantum system remains in superposition until it is observed. If God was omnipotent he would be all knowing, implying that he observes all. However since the cat's state remains in superposition we can infer that it has not been observed, and therefore God is has no knowledge of the cat's state. That contradicts the initial assumption that God is omnipotent, but if God is not Omnipotent then he is not God at all, and therefore God does not exist. That's because God is the Cat.
Goude Posted October 15, 2021 Posted October 15, 2021 On 8/3/2021 at 4:28 PM, beecee said: Many things happen that we don't understand properly, and many more things have happened in the past, that science has in time explained. The awesome nature of the world and universe around us, the evolution of life, the wonders of the brain, conciousness and such, has many of us searching for answers. Science has answered most, but not all. The beauty of science though [which strangely, you seem to dismiss] is that it can and is modified/changed as further observational and experimental evidence comes to light. Your NDE experience, is obviously subjective, and your attempt to explain it via supernatural, unscientific means is likewise subjective. There is no doubt other reasons, some of which have already been aired here. I was hoping we could have a friendly discussion. I do agree with you that science changes as new discovers are made. I also like science and follow it closely. It has help make our lives better in many areas. I also agree that my NDE is totally subjective. But there are others that are not. Some have been verified by doctors in attendance when it happened. I will not go further now, the environment seems a little tense. But if someone is interested we can discuss some verified NDEs.
Bufofrog Posted October 15, 2021 Posted October 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Goude said: But there are others that are not. Some have been verified by doctors in attendance when it happened. I will not go further now, the environment seems a little tense. But if someone is interested we can discuss some verified NDEs There really aren't any 'verified' NDEs. That is to say there is no verified occurrence of someone's consciousness leaving their body. That would be rather big news...
zapatos Posted October 15, 2021 Posted October 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Goude said: I was hoping we could have a friendly discussion. Our version of "friendly discussion" means courteous. Your versions seems to mean "agree with what I say".
Markus Hanke Posted October 15, 2021 Posted October 15, 2021 10 hours ago, Goude said: I also agree that my NDE is totally subjective. But there are others that are not. Some have been verified by doctors in attendance when it happened. Seems to me that this is a bit off topic for this thread...? Anyway, I don’t think anyone doubts the existence of NDEs, they are a well documented phenomenon. The question is why you feel the need to give them a supernatural interpretation? It seems clear that such experiences would feel very powerful, and I’m sure they have a deep impact on the experiencer - but that doesn’t mean they are of supernatural origin.
Goude Posted October 16, 2021 Posted October 16, 2021 8 hours ago, zapatos said: Our version of "friendly discussion" means courteous. Your versions seems to mean "agree with what I say". I wonder why others think they know my motives. I don't care if you agree with me or not. There is no meaningful discussion if you do. 1 hour ago, Markus Hanke said: Seems to me that this is a bit off topic for this thread...? Anyway, I don’t think anyone doubts the existence of NDEs, they are a well documented phenomenon. The question is why you feel the need to give them a supernatural interpretation? It seems clear that such experiences would feel very powerful, and I’m sure they have a deep impact on the experiencer - but that doesn’t mean they are of supernatural origin. I don't believe in supernatural things, just natural things yet to be discovered. 8 hours ago, Bufofrog said: There really aren't any 'verified' NDEs. That is to say there is no verified occurrence of someone's consciousness leaving their body. That would be rather big news... Well, If you would like there are surgeons that disagree with you. It is not important whether we believe or not. What is important is what is.
zapatos Posted October 16, 2021 Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Goude said: I wonder why others think they know my motives. Based on your comments of course. What some see as simple disagreement you see as "tense" and "hoped for friendly discussion". Edited October 16, 2021 by zapatos
dimreepr Posted October 16, 2021 Posted October 16, 2021 11 hours ago, Goude said: I don't believe in supernatural things, just natural things yet to be discovered. The god of the gaps argument. 11 hours ago, Goude said: Well, If you would like there are surgeons that disagree with you. It is not important whether we believe or not. What is important is what is. Indeed, but NDE's have been explained.
Goude Posted October 16, 2021 Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, dimreepr said: The god of the gaps argument. Indeed, but NDE's have been explained. I have no idea what "God of the gaps" means. I almost laughed at "disturbed bodily multi-sensory integration." Reminds me of my Navy days. Things that say nothing but sound important. Perhaps something sweet. Home Again Lush beauty everywhere abounds, the smell of Jasmine all around. Breathe deeply the pristine air, drink pure water bubbling there. Let go the stress of dismal years, nothing here to harm, dry the tears. Enjoy this place where you are known, warm greetings welcome you back home. Edited October 16, 2021 by Goude
iNow Posted October 17, 2021 Posted October 17, 2021 12 hours ago, Goude said: have no idea what "God of the gaps" means. God is often used as a way to explain things we don’t yet understand. The gif concept fills those gaps. However, as science and culture progress and we continue learning more, those gaps begin to shrink and eventually close, thus rendering the concept of God obsolete and unneeded. 1
Goude Posted October 17, 2021 Posted October 17, 2021 15 hours ago, iNow said: God is often used as a way to explain things we don’t yet understand. The gif concept fills those gaps. However, as science and culture progress and we continue learning more, those gaps begin to shrink and eventually close, thus rendering the concept of God obsolete and unneeded. Thanks for the explanation, and I agree. To some spiritual people God is the sum total of all existence. God is everything. Not quite sure of that either.
Intoscience Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 14 hours ago, Goude said: Thanks for the explanation, and I agree. To some spiritual people God is the sum total of all existence. God is everything. Not quite sure of that either. I don't "believe" in God either. However, I would assume that if God does exist then why would/should we presume to know the details? A gold fish cannot and does not have the capacity to know, do... and experience all that we do yet we share a common ancestor. If God sits outside of our "reality" then how can we know anything about God?
mistermack Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Intoscience said: If God sits outside of our "reality" then how can we know anything about God? But we actually know a surprising amount about God. For instance, we know that he loves us. And that he like being praised. Especially by groups of people in songs, to organ music in big cold buildings. And we know that he doesn't like us eating pork, or squirrel or kangaroo, or even sirloin beef. And he hates sex. Especially gay sex. Except between animals, where it doesn't matter in the slightest, even gay sex. And luckily he is merciful. Even though he will burn you in hell for eternity if you don't do what he wants. Oh, and he likes us to eat fish on a friday. No, wait, he changed his mind on that !
joigus Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 On 10/17/2021 at 5:09 AM, iNow said: *god, not gif I'm sure there's a gif of the gaps too. There's a gif for everything! 1
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