Drying ethanol

[jsatan]

Hi, I'm wanting to dry ethanol.

I've got the normal 95% stuff but I want as much out of the water as poss.

 

So I've been reading around.

My options are to use

 

magnesium

calcium/barium oxide

 

But I have none of these.

 

I was wondering if making a simple galvanic battery in the ethanol would work.

 

So I was thinking:

add some salt (table salt)

put some alu foil around some coins or wire and put it in the ethanol.

 

Shouldnt this remove the water?

making alu hydroxide and hydrogen?

 

Remove the wire/coins and then distill.

But I'm not sure how long this will take, weeks?

 

Or add some sodium hydroixde to the ethano/water mix then add the alu, but I'm not sure what this would do to the ethanol.

lol. if it was steam it turn back in to ethene wouldnt it?

 

 

Cheers for any info,

[YT2095]

can`t you use Lime? garden lime for instance, that`s Calcium Oxide, so is the granular stuff in the botton of those ready heat cans of coffee (you know the sort, press a button at the bottom and shake and wait for a few mins).

it`ll "Slake" the lime making Calcium Hydroxide, then you can re-distil it

 

do NOT use Sodium Hydroxide! you`ll ruin it

[jsatan]

I know quick lime is the same stuff, just dont know where to get any.

does B&Q sell it?

 

Why will sodium hydroxide ruin it?

is it because once it reacted with the alu, it then attacks the ethanol to remove the hydrogen?

[YT2095]

it can react with the ethanol if memory serves, long before you add the alu, besides, even if I`m wrong about the C2H5Na, that reaction would still only split the Hydrogen off the OH leaving sodium aluminate and just as much water as you started off with. (either that or I`m having a "Blonde moment")

 

yes B&Q will sell garden lime

[jsatan]

aha,

I've got some calcium chloride, but that didnt work,

Anything else that would work?

 

I'll pop to B&Q soon, just down the road from me,

[YT2095]

possibly Cement, although it will be quite messy and hard to clean afterwards, it Should ignore the alc and use only the water, I`m also sure that PolyAcrylAmide will work too, you`ll not need to distill it afterwards either

[jsatan]

possibly Cement, although it will be quite messy and hard to clean afterwards, it Should ignore the alc and use only the water

 

Yeah it does, Thank YT.

 

Even tho I wasnt thinking right, it got me thinking anyway,

[jsatan]

Just done a quick check, garden lime has magnesium oxide as well, this shouldnt hurt should it?

[YT2095]

not at all, the more the merrier

[jdurg]

Just remember that anhydrous ethanol will absorb water from the air and soon form the 95% stuff again unless you seal the container tightly and don't allow ANY water to get near it.

[YT2095]

btw, I overlooked this before as it seemed too trivial to mention, but since you`ve done the same, isn`t it 98% and not 95% for the azeotrope?

[jsatan]

btw, I overlooked this before as it seemed too trivial to mention, but since you`ve done the same, isn`t it 98% and not 95% for the azeotrope?

whaaa?

[YT2095]

if you distil Ethanol that contains water, no mater how perfectly you control the temp, you`ll still only ever get a 98% pure product, even though water boils at 100c, it will form an azeotrope with the alc, bummer I know, but it`s a fact

[jdurg]

Nope. The azeotrope forms at about 95-96% ethanol. I think it's sulfuric acid that tends to form an azeotrope at 98% unless you add a very large excess of sulfur trioxide.

[jsatan]

if you distil Ethanol that contains water, no mater how perfectly you control the temp, you`ll still only ever get a 98% pure product, even though water boils at 100c, it will form an azeotrope with the alc, bummer I know, but it`s a fact

 

 

Yeah, I know that, that's why I was talking about the using chems to removed the water.

 

bezen works but only once.

Thanks for letting me know what the word ment, yeah its 95% for ethanol/water.

[YT2095]

is it? Oh well, I`m probably having yet another "Blonde Moment" today, that`s what getting into punchups with junkies get`s ya!

 

come to think of it 98% for H2SO4 sounds about right *sigh* just ignore me.

[jsatan]

is it? Oh well' date=' I`m probably having yet another "Blonde Moment" today, that`s what getting into punchups with junkies get`s ya!

 

come to think of it 98% for H2SO4 sounds about right *sigh* just ignore me.[/quote']

Sounds like its that.

 

Fighting junkies, lol.

[YT2095]

yeah, some sitting outside my front door in the flats smoking and tinfoil and graffiti pens all over the floor and some on mt front door (WD-$) removed it) and I "removed" them too slow/stoned to hit me back, but it doesn`t stop my wife and newborn child getting upset

 

anyway, that`s off topic.

you Might be interested in the polyacrylamide crystals though

you can also buy them at B&Q used for adding to the soil in hanging baskets as a water reserve, they absorb upto 400x their weight in water!!!! amazing I know

[jsatan]

yeah' date=' some sitting outside my front door in the flats smoking and tinfoil and graffiti pens all over the floor and some on mt front door (WD-$) removed it) and I "removed" them too slow/stoned to hit me back, but it doesn`t stop my wife and newborn child getting upset

 

anyway, that`s off topic.

you Might be interested in the polyacrylamide crystals though

you can also buy them at B&Q used for adding to the soil in hanging baskets as a water reserve, they absorb upto 400x their weight in water!!!! amazing I know [/quote']

 

O cool. I was trying find what that stuff was.

Yeah thats great stuff, but does it react with ethanol, i take it as a no.

 

There was some guy whos made some 'stuff' just like that but it works alot better, somewhere around the 2000x mark.

He made it to absorb clouds to stop hurricanes in yanky land.

worked so fast, bowl of water and just a tea spoon, pow all turned into gel.

 

Quicker than it takes to say it.

 

Yeah having someone 'tooting' outside your door isn't what anyone want, scag heads.

OT I live with them for about 1.7yr b4 I went to uni (long story).

I feel your pain.

 

I'll check that gel stuff out,

Thanks!!!

[jsatan]

It didnt work,

Now I've tried it I can guess why it didnt work.

if these gels have to keep the soil wet (to a point) then they cant take up all the water in the ethanol.

I'm trying plaster now as I couldnt find any calcium oxide at B&Q

 

I've got some CaCl12 I was thinking what would happen if I put a open bottle of ethanol in a container (air tight) with CaCl12 around it.

would this draw the water out of the ethanol?

I best this would take along time tho.

 

Any ideas, any other uses for the gel?

fun stuff tho,

[jsatan]

I've been reading somethine about using copper sulphate, which I've got but It seems it will take weeks.

[YT2095]

ok , in order, I`ve tried the gell in Vodka and it worked, HOWEVER it was only 40% alc to start with, so maybe it takes longer or needs to finer powder and constant agitation to absorb all the 5% water? OR... maybe the C2H5OH molecule is too big and blocks the "pores" in the gell? (I honestly have no idea why it didn`t work).

 

the copper sulphate, you`ll need to make it also into a powder and heat it until it goes nearly pure white and anhydrous, again, I can`t vouch for that as a valid and workable solution it may just suffer the same prob as the gell?

[jdurg]

Actually, the anhydrous copper sulfate isn't that bad of an idea since the water molecules are chemically and physically trapped into the crystal structure of the salt. Same can be said for the cobalt compounds that absorb water. The only problem is that you don't want any of that Co remaining in your ethanol.

[jsatan]

Thanks guys, I've already heated the copper sulphate, I did it first in the microwave but that got a bit too hot, so I got my blowtourch out, worked a treat.

Yeah the gel thing I know it will work up'til a point but I'm not sure if it would work over the 95%.

If it did them the soil that it is in would be dry all time right?

Hope that make sence.

Yeah I stilled it after using the copper~

 

Ps I dont think there is any need to powder it as the crystal break down to powder when the water is removed.

It has the added bonus of sowing you the colour so you know if it requires more salt.

[jsatan]

Just to let you know the copper sulphate worked a treat.

I'm sure I got it over 99% ethanol.