another reason time will terminate

[motlan]

Another reason time will terminate

All electromagnetic energy terminates with distance.  Electricity going through a cable diminishes and terminates with distance.  Radio waves terminate at a certain distance.  A sound wave through Doppler Effect stretches with distance from the source and eventually loses noise.  Light from blue shift to red shift loses energy in an elongated wave length and eventually terminate in travel.  That is why the more distant stars are dimmer in light than the closer stars.  The light from the more distant stars lose intensity with a greater distance to span.  Even light from further stars do not make it to our skies because at that distance the light energy terminates.  Star light in the skies can be millions of light years away, that is an incredible distance away. 

The universe began at the singularity with only one single time frame.  At the moment of the big bang, space and time in the form of time frames extended into the future.  It was electromagnetic energy that extended the time frames way into the future.  Like I mentioned, all kinetic electromagnetic energy weakens and then terminates with distance.  The energy that expanded the time frame weakens as it stretches away from the first time frame before the big bang.  At some point in time that energy shall terminate possibly trillions of years into the future.  Like the kinetic energy of a pendulum, the time frame shall cease to extend (equal to zero) followed by reverse order of time (time frames).  At this point it is the mother of all opposite reactions.  Electromagnetic energy travel terminates, the speed of light is finite, an object in free fall reaches terminal velocity and perception from consciousness terminates due to finite.  All variables and everything in this universe are finite and will resort to reverse order. 

[Sensei]

Wow.. so many errors and misconceptions in the single post, I don't know where to begin explanation..

Mathematically inverse-square function has no limits. But in the reality, what is called "light" is made of billions photons particles. After moving far enough away we can detect less than one photon per area unit per unit of time.

[MigL]

How do you explain light, radio/microwave and x-rays, all Electromagnetic radiation, from galaxies billions of light years away ?
When, exactly, does it terminate ?

[swansont]

1 hour ago, motlan said:

Another reason time will terminate

All electromagnetic energy terminates with distance

...

Like I mentioned, all kinetic electromagnetic energy weakens and then terminates with distance.

 

So how do you explain the failure of conservation of energy? The integral over the surface surrounding a point source (i.e. a sphere of radius r) would give a constant for e.g. the 1/r^2 behavior of radiant energy. But if it terminates, then you gave zero. 

 

[Sensei]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

So how do you explain the failure of conservation of energy? The integral over the surface surrounding a point source (i.e. a sphere of radius r) would give a constant for e.g. the 1/r^2 behavior of radiant energy. But if it terminates, then you gave zero.

After moving far enough from point source, you could reach situation that probability of detection of single photon coming from point source is so small that you could wait entire human lifetime and not detect one, giving illusion that point source does not exist at all (or simply there is nothing there).

[Markus Hanke]

8 hours ago, motlan said:

Another reason time will terminate

All electromagnetic energy terminates with distance.  Electricity going through a cable diminishes and terminates with distance.  Radio waves terminate at a certain distance.  A sound wave through Doppler Effect stretches with distance from the source and eventually loses noise.  Light from blue shift to red shift loses energy in an elongated wave length and eventually terminate in travel.  That is why the more distant stars are dimmer in light than the closer stars.  The light from the more distant stars lose intensity with a greater distance to span.  Even light from further stars do not make it to our skies because at that distance the light energy terminates.  Star light in the skies can be millions of light years away, that is an incredible distance away. 

The universe began at the singularity with only one single time frame.  At the moment of the big bang, space and time in the form of time frames extended into the future.  It was electromagnetic energy that extended the time frames way into the future.  Like I mentioned, all kinetic electromagnetic energy weakens and then terminates with distance.  The energy that expanded the time frame weakens as it stretches away from the first time frame before the big bang.  At some point in time that energy shall terminate possibly trillions of years into the future.  Like the kinetic energy of a pendulum, the time frame shall cease to extend (equal to zero) followed by reverse order of time (time frames).  At this point it is the mother of all opposite reactions.  Electromagnetic energy travel terminates, the speed of light is finite, an object in free fall reaches terminal velocity and perception from consciousness terminates due to finite.  All variables and everything in this universe are finite and will resort to reverse order. 

So far as I can make it out, every single sentence in this post contains an incorrect claim of some kind or another - that’s quite an achievement in its own right. 

[joigus]

Utter nonsense.

[John Cuthber]

2 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

So far as I can make it out, every single sentence in this post contains an incorrect claim of some kind or another - that’s quite an achievement in its own right. 

Not quite.

I think that 

10 hours ago, motlan said:

Star light in the skies can be millions of light years away, that is an incredible distance away. 

can be argued to be true- as long as you take a figurative interpretation of "an incredible distance away".

But having only one sentence that might be correct is, as you say, something of an achievement.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by John Cuthber

[joigus]

1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

Not quite.

I think that 

12 hours ago, motlan said:

Star light in the skies can be millions of light years away, that is an incredible distance away. 

can be argued to be true- as long as you take a figurative interpretation of "an incredible distance away".

But having only one sentence that might be correct is, as you say, something of an achievement.

 

Indeed.  

[motlan]

12 hours ago, MigL said:

How do you explain light, radio/microwave and x-rays, all Electromagnetic radiation, from galaxies billions of light years away ?
When, exactly, does it terminate ?

the light from most galaxies does not reach us because it is too far.  What I mean by terminate is that it does not extend any further.  Energy cannot be destroyed, it is conserved.

[Bufofrog]

1 hour ago, motlan said:

the light from most galaxies does not reach us because it is too far.  What I mean by terminate is that it does not extend any further. 

We know that is what you mean, and what everyone is telling you is that you are wrong.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Bufofrog

[John Cuthber]

1 hour ago, motlan said:

the light from most galaxies does not reach us because it is too far.

Light does not get tired.

 

1 hour ago, motlan said:

What I mean by terminate is that it does not extend any further.  Energy cannot be destroyed, it is conserved.

Which do you mean?

The light starts out with some energy.

Because energy is conserved, it carries on with that same energy- forever until it hits something to which it can transfer the energy..

 

[swansont]

13 hours ago, Sensei said:

After moving far enough from point source, you could reach situation that probability of detection of single photon coming from point source is so small that you could wait entire human lifetime and not detect one, giving illusion that point source does not exist at all (or simply there is nothing there).

Which is not the same thing as I explained, nor what was claimed in the OP.

2 hours ago, motlan said:

the light from most galaxies does not reach us because it is too far.  What I mean by terminate is that it does not extend any further.  Energy cannot be destroyed, it is conserved.

Some does not reach us because the universe is expanding, which is not what you claimed.

Some light does not reach us because it is absorbed, which is not what you claimed.

“does not extend any further” implies it just stops or goes away, which violates conservation of energy.

[motlan]

7 hours ago, swansont said:

Which is not the same thing as I explained, nor what was claimed in the OP.

Some does not reach us because the universe is expanding, which is not what you claimed.

Some light does not reach us because it is absorbed, which is not what you claimed.

“does not extend any further” implies it just stops or goes away, which violates conservation of energy.

we know that as light extends further it red shifts with longer wavelength which is a lower frequency hence less energy. it does not need to be absorbed and the universe that is static will experience some stars MORE DIM than others due to greater distance away from our skies.  of the trillion of stars in the universe only a fraction is visible to our skies because it is too far away.  the energy is not destroyed the light just cannot extend and reach us at that great a distance any longer.  

[John Cuthber]

19 minutes ago, motlan said:

we know that as light extends further it red shifts with longer wavelength which is a lower frequency hence less energy.

We see the CMBR... that's light that started off as ultraviolet and which has shifted down to the microwave region.

The point is we still see it.
 

[motlan]

53 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

We see the CMBR... that's light that started off as ultraviolet and which has shifted down to the microwave region.

The point is we still see it.
 

cosmic microwave background will redshift until undetectable according to my research online.

[J.C.MacSwell]

40 minutes ago, motlan said:

cosmic microwave background will redshift until undetectable according to my research online.

Who exactly...would be left trying to detect it?

😃

Edited November 23, 2020 by J.C.MacSwell

[swansont]

2 hours ago, motlan said:

we know that as light extends further it red shifts with longer wavelength which is a lower frequency hence less energy. it does not need to be absorbed and the universe that is static will experience some stars MORE DIM than others due to greater distance away from our skies.  of the trillion of stars in the universe only a fraction is visible to our skies because it is too far away.  the energy is not destroyed the light just cannot extend and reach us at that great a distance any longer.  

The redshift is from the expansion of the universe, and doesn’t stop the light. But you didn’t include expansion in your explanation. You said “All electromagnetic energy terminates with distance” and this just isn’t the case.

The fraction being visible drops because intensity drops as 1/r^2, not some inherent property of light. More dim because light spreads out ≠ light terminating

[motlan]

41 minutes ago, swansont said:

The redshift is from the expansion of the universe, and doesn’t stop the light. But you didn’t include expansion in your explanation. You said “All electromagnetic energy terminates with distance” and this just isn’t the case.

The fraction being visible drops because intensity drops as 1/r^2, not some inherent property of light. More dim because light spreads out ≠ light terminating

gamma rays can convert to radio waves through redshifting.  eventually even radio waves is diluted, absorbed, weakened or become undetectable with distance.

[MigL]

As Swansont explained, EM radiation is red-shifted due to expansion.
The fact that expansion is proportional to distance does NOT mean red-shift is due to distance.

There is, however, a horizon beyond which, we will never be able to see.
At that distance, the universe is expanding away from us faster than light can make up the intervening distance, so it will never reach us. That observable universe horizon is approx. 46 billion light years away from us.
That does NOT mean EM radiation stops.

I suggest you try to better understand your source material.

Edited November 23, 2020 by MigL

[Markus Hanke]

22 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

can be argued to be true- as long as you take a figurative interpretation of "an incredible distance away".

Fair enough...I actually missed this one 😄

[Sriman Dutta]

On 11/22/2020 at 5:16 AM, motlan said:

Another reason time will terminate

All electromagnetic energy terminates with distance.  Electricity going through a cable diminishes and terminates with distance.  Radio waves terminate at a certain distance.  A sound wave through Doppler Effect stretches with distance from the source and eventually loses noise.  Light from blue shift to red shift loses energy in an elongated wave length and eventually terminate in travel.  That is why the more distant stars are dimmer in light than the closer stars.  The light from the more distant stars lose intensity with a greater distance to span.  Even light from further stars do not make it to our skies because at that distance the light energy terminates.  Star light in the skies can be millions of light years away, that is an incredible distance away. 

The universe began at the singularity with only one single time frame.  At the moment of the big bang, space and time in the form of time frames extended into the future.  It was electromagnetic energy that extended the time frames way into the future.  Like I mentioned, all kinetic electromagnetic energy weakens and then terminates with distance.  The energy that expanded the time frame weakens as it stretches away from the first time frame before the big bang.  At some point in time that energy shall terminate possibly trillions of years into the future.  Like the kinetic energy of a pendulum, the time frame shall cease to extend (equal to zero) followed by reverse order of time (time frames).  At this point it is the mother of all opposite reactions.  Electromagnetic energy travel terminates, the speed of light is finite, an object in free fall reaches terminal velocity and perception from consciousness terminates due to finite.  All variables and everything in this universe are finite and will resort to reverse order. 

Well well we have pseudo-metaphysics here. XD

Energy does not fade away. Distant stars which are still not visible is because either their light is absorbed or objected in their path, or they haven't yet reached us( the rays are travelling and might reach earth tomorrow, who knows).

Doppler effect or red-shifting has nothing to do with energy termination.These two concepts are related to shifting of frequency(or wavelength) with relative motion. They do not prove that energy is terminated.

And what is kinetic electromagnetic energy? XD Heard it for the some time.

 

And time is treated as a coordinate in relativity. The direction of time is always towards future. Well there are a couple of definitions of unidirectional time in different senses. I read these in Hawking's popular book "A Brief History of Time". 

Firstly, there is the notion of thermodynamic time. Every process in this universe occurs so that its entropy is increased. This increase of entropy causes an arrow of time, i.e., time always points to that direction in which the entropy increases.

Second you got the cosmological time. Time moves in that direction such that the universe expands.

And thirdly, psychological time- the sense of time in our mind. We "feel" that time moves in one direction. This intuitive sense comes from the cause-and-effec experiences over the years of evolution.

 

[motlan]

32 minutes ago, Sriman Dutta said:

Well well we have pseudo-metaphysics here. XD

Energy does not fade away. Distant stars which are still not visible is because either their light is absorbed or objected in their path, or they haven't yet reached us( the rays are travelling and might reach earth tomorrow, who knows).

Doppler effect or red-shifting has nothing to do with energy termination.These two concepts are related to shifting of frequency(or wavelength) with relative motion. They do not prove that energy is terminated.

And what is kinetic electromagnetic energy? XD Heard it for the some time.

 

And time is treated as a coordinate in relativity. The direction of time is always towards future. Well there are a couple of definitions of unidirectional time in different senses. I read these in Hawking's popular book "A Brief History of Time". 

Firstly, there is the notion of thermodynamic time. Every process in this universe occurs so that its entropy is increased. This increase of entropy causes an arrow of time, i.e., time always points to that direction in which the entropy increases.

Second you got the cosmological time. Time moves in that direction such that the universe expands.

And thirdly, psychological time- the sense of time in our mind. We "feel" that time moves in one direction. This intuitive sense comes from the cause-and-effec experiences over the years of evolution.

 

all functions on a graph extends in both directions, in the positive direction and negative direction.  the variables of the equation extends in the positive direction first followed by the negative direction to equal to zero.  for example the sine graph goes in the positive direction and negative direction.  In the positive direction the path of this circular function goes clockwise, in the negative direction it goes counterclockwise.  sine 90 degrees is 1.  sine negative 90 degrees is -1.  time is a coordinate in relativity which must be treated as positive direction terminated followed by negative direction back to the point of origin to equal to zero (equilibrium).  In the physics of an air conditioner to generate cold air it must release hot air that expels outside.  however eventually the cold air and hot air on earth eventually unite and neutralize on earth, this is the reverse order to equal to zero (equilibrium) the arrow of entropy eventually reverses.  Time is the same way.  

[swansont]

11 hours ago, motlan said:

gamma rays can convert to radio waves through redshifting.  eventually even radio waves is diluted, absorbed, weakened or become undetectable with distance.

Your original statement simply said "with distance" - nothing about redshifting

Weakened is not "terminated"

Absorption requires a medium, which was not part of your claim.

"become undetectable" is not "terminated" Your claim said nothing about detection. It implied the photons will cease to be after some distance.

 

Maybe you could just fix (or abandon) your claim instead of trying to contort it to sorta be true if you add in a bunch of caveats that weren't originally there.. 

[joigus]

Can you, please, address the objections about redshift, clearly identifying a misconception of yours, before opening another thread to cast doubt on expansion? Appreciated.