Flip floppers!

[bascule]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/stories/2005/08/17/heresWhatRepublicansSaidAboutClintonAndKosovo.html

 

Here's what Republicans said about Clinton and Kosovo

 

Why did they second-guess our commitment to freedom from genocide and demand that we cut and run?

 

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."

 

-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)

 

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."

 

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

 

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."

 

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

 

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

 

-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

 

 

Why did they demoralize our brave men and women in uniform?

 

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."

 

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

 

"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."

 

-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99

 

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years"

 

-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

 

"I'm on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so you can trust me and believe me when I say we're running out of cruise missles. I can't tell you exactly how many we have left, for security reasons, but we're almost out of cruise missles."

 

-Senator Inhofe (R-OK)

 

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarifiedrules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"

 

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

 

"I don't know that Milosevic will ever raise a white flag"

 

-Senator Don Nickles (R-OK)

 

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"

 

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

 

 

Why didn't they support our president in a time of war?

 

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

 

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

 

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."

 

-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)

 

"The two powers that have ICBMs that can reach the United States are Russia and China. Here we go in. We're taking on not just Milosevic. We can't just say, 'that little guy, we can whip him.' We have these two other powers that have missiles that can reach us, and we have zero defense thanks to this president."

 

-Senator James Inhofe (R-OK)

 

"You can support the troops but not the president"

 

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

 

"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."

 

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

 

"For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce"

 

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

 

 

Why did they blame America first?

 

"Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."

 

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

 

"Once the bombing commenced, I think then Milosevic unleashed his forces, and then that's when the slaughtering and the massive ethnic cleansing really started"

 

-Senator Don Nickles (R-OK)

 

"Clinton's bombing campaign has caused all of these problems to explode"

 

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

 

"America has no vital interest in whose flag flies over Kosovo's capital, and no right to attack and kill Serb soldiers fighting on their own soil to preserve the territorial integrity of their own country"

 

-Pat Buchanan ®

 

"These international war criminals were led by Gen. Wesley Clark ...who clicked his shiny heels for the commander-in-grief, Bill Clinton."

 

-Michael Savage

 

"This has been an unmitigated disaster ... Ask the Chinese embassy. Ask all the people in Belgrade that we've killed. Ask the refugees that we've killed. Ask the people in nursing homes. Ask the people in hospitals."

 

-Representative Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

 

"It is a remarkable spectacle to see the Clinton Administration and NATO taking over from the Soviet Union the role of sponsoring "wars of national liberation."

 

-Representative Helen Chenoweth (R-ID)

 

"By the order to launch air strikes against Serbia, NATO and President Clinton have entered uncharted territory in mankind's history. Not even Hitler's grab of the Sudetenland in the 1930s, which eventually led to WW II, ranks as a comparable travesty. For, there are no American interests whatsoever that the NATO bombing will either help, or protect; only needless risks to which it exposes the American soldiers and assets, not to mention the victims on the ground in Serbia."

 

-Bob Djurdjevic, founder of Truth in Media

[Pangloss]

Why are you wasting my time with this partisan garbage? You don't think the far left pulls crap like that out of its ass as well?

[john5746]

Why are you wasting my time with this partisan garbage? You don't think the far left pulls crap like that out of its ass as well?

 

I think that's the point. The right is acting as if the left is the only one that complains against military action.

[Pangloss]

I think that's the point. The right is acting as if the left is the only one that complains against military action.

 

I think that statement insults both liberals and conservatives.

[john5746]

I think that statement insults both liberals and[/i'] conservatives.

 

Good, they both do the same political crap, they just call each other different names.

[Douglas]

Here's what Republicans said about Clinton and Kosovo

Can I assume you're a member of the lower left quadrant ?

[bascule]

Why are you wasting my time with this partisan garbage?

 

I think the question you should ask yourself, if you truly feel that way, is why are you wasting your time reading it?

 

You don't think the far left pulls crap like that out of its ass as well?

 

The thing about these quotes is that many of them sound very much like the liberal rhetoric of today, which the mouthpieces of the right (many of them quoted here, such as Hannity, Scarborough, and Tom Delay) continually lambaste the left for.

 

And c'mon, you can't tell me you don't see the irony in:

 

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

 

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

 

Can I assume you're a member of the lower left quadrant ?

 

Yep, social libertarian neo-hippie guilty as charged...

[Pangloss]

Sure, that's ironic, just not why you think. It's always ironic when one extreme acts like the other extreme is both (a) the main view (instead of an extreme), and (b) always wrong. Blind ideology is always ironic, yes it is. Thanks for the reminder.

 

I dunno, I guess I'm just disappointed. This is like something you find on DemocraticUnderground or RushLimbaugh, not ScienceForums. I like to think we set a higher standard here. But perhaps it's just me.

[Lance]

 

I dunno' date=' I guess I'm just disappointed. This is like something you find on DemocraticUnderground or RushLimbaugh, not ScienceForums. I like to think we set a higher standard here. But perhaps it's just me.[/quote']

 

No, I absolutely agree. Whats worse is that the entire first post is simply a quote with no hint of original thought. I don't even see any comments on the quote. It looks more like propaganda or advertisement than a prompt for disscusion.

[john5746]

No, I absolutely agree. Whats worse is that the entire first post is simply a quote with no hint of original thought. I don't even see any comments on the quote. It looks more like propaganda or advertisement than a prompt for disscusion.

 

Yet a discussion has begun. It is obviously partisan - so what. Quotes like that and the attacks on soldiers and veterans who disagree with Bush show who the talking heads really support.

[Pangloss]

I guess I should apologize for snapping at Bascule up there. I was rude in Post #2. Sorry about that.

[Douglas]

No, I absolutely agree. Whats worse is that the entire first post is simply a quote with no hint of original thought. .

I think Bascule was just letting us know that the conservative pissing on Kosovo, is as bad as the liberal pissing on Iraq.

[bascule]

If anything I'd like to work against needless partisan squabbles, and I thought these quotes served to illustrate some of the hypocritical bullshit (I'm sorry, I have Penn & Teller on the brain now) recent ones are based on.

 

I need this on a bumper sticker, preferably next to a yellow ribbon magnet:

 

"You can support the troops but not the president"

 

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

[john5746]

I think Bascule was just letting us know that the conservative pissing on Kosovo, is as bad as the liberal pissing on Iraq.

 

...or the liberal protesting Iraq has just as much right as the conservative protesting Kosovo. Although, with Kosovo the intentions were on firm ground and didn't change.

[Lance]

I realize that but there was no commentary in the opening post. It was just a quote from some other website. If you had pointed something out from the quote it wouldn't have looked as if you were just slinging mud. Or rather it wouldn't have looked like you had dumped a bucket of mud on sfn's porch then ran off laughing.

[Pangloss]

Anybody who likes Penn & Teller is hoopy in my book.

[Skye]

What's interesting is the people you don't see quoted in that list, people like Cheney or Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz or Rice, who have had so much influence on Bush's foreign policy. It's been the story of the Republican party I guess, the more aggressive neo-conservative line taking over from the fairly isolationist Powell doctrine. The question is though, whether dissatifaction with the results of their policies will elevate internal critics like McCain.