mistermack Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 19 hours ago, TheVat said: It is an objective fact that humans, the vast majority of individuals, desire to live and thrive. It is, at this instant, and has been for all of history. So if you restrict 'objective' to what you know, that's fine. The past is an objective fact, as is the present. But projecting the patterns of the past on the future is speculation. All you can do is make a pretty confident guess. JIm Jones got loads of people to believe that it was better to die. Heaven's gate is another example. One of many. I know it's only small beer, but it proves that what people believe and want is malleable, even on life itself. A mass suicide of most humans is still hugely unlikely, but it's actually far more likely now than it's ever been, due to mass communication. I don't get why you are so wedded to the idea of objectivity in the subject of right/wrong. Yes, given what most people aspire to, we generally agree on loads of stuff. But in the end, if you dig deep enough, it only reflects the feelings of a majority. The reason that I'm so wedded to making the distinction, is that I've debated religious people in the past, who start with the concept of objective right and wrong as a given, and from that try to weave a convoluted argument for the existence of a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 If you read my posts, I explained that I meant objectivity only in the sense of measurable outcomes for social groups and their members. Twice. And clarified how it was not a religious or metaphysical take on intrinsic moral good. Have a good day, or night, depending on time zone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermack Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 21 hours ago, TheVat said: If you read my posts, I explained that I meant objectivity only in the sense of measurable outcomes for social groups and their members. Ok, you can call your dog a lion if you like. It doesn't alter the fact. If you read my posts, you would have seen that I supplied you with two official definitions which are nothing like your use, and which you chose to ignore. But that's your prerogative, have a nice day yourself, whatever day means. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 4 hours ago, mistermack said: Ok, you can call your dog a lion if you like. It doesn't alter the fact. If you read my posts, you would have seen that I supplied you with two official definitions which are nothing like your use, and which you chose to ignore. But that's your prerogative, have a nice day yourself, whatever day means. I did not revise any definitions, so that's a false characterization of what I said. I pointed out the distinction between moral objectivity (i.e. that there is some objective condition that is a moral state) and objectivity of measurable social outcomes. I suggested that the latter is a real part of science and can make findings as to how moral/ethical beliefs and practices affect the viability of societies and welfare of its members. Nor was I confining objectivity to "what I know," which borders on a trollish insult but perhaps you meant well. Indeed, I was opening up an entire world of data across multiple fields such as anthropology, ethnography, sociology, psychology, economics, population biology, et al. It would seem to me that it is you who is choosing to ignore the most salient points of my previous posts and feeding them back in a dumbed-down form. I already have sensed that you are not likely to acknowledge this or any other mistakes in reading, so I won't trouble you further. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) it depends on your moral beliefs ..... In my opinion this physical life in the physical realm was thing i begged for and needed so much before comming here So i have to pay its price........either by waiting it to end.......................or if i end it by my own i have to pay its price in other means............ Edited January 22, 2023 by Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Saber said: In my opinion this physical life in the physical realm was thing we begged for and needed so much before comming here Do you have a recollection of begging for life before coming here? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, zapatos said: Do you have a recollection of begging for life before coming here? I do....but its never provable......to others....... being able to live in a realm that has the dimension of ( time ) so im capable of changing my self is not a thing they give to every body for free................... Edited January 22, 2023 by Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Saber said: being able to live in a realm that has the dimension of ( time ) so your capable of changing your self is not a thing they give to every body for free................... Who is "they"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Nobody types like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Saber said: I do I did not. I did not beg, I don't pay for it now, and will not pay in any "other means." I enjoy it. A lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, zapatos said: Who is "they"? Actually its ( it ) like a he /she....... the one creature that has created the dimension of time * and i believe its not god......... 16 minutes ago, Genady said: I did not. I did not beg, I don't pay for it now, and will not pay in any "other means." I enjoy it. A lot. I didnt say ( we did ) i only said ( i did ) i mean thats only my personal belief i dont say it must be a general beleif......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 15 minutes ago, Saber said: I didnt say ( we did ) i only said ( i did ) But you said, 44 minutes ago, Saber said: we begged and 44 minutes ago, Saber said: we have to pay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 32 minutes ago, zapatos said: Who is "they"? i have a lot to talk about my belief of that creature who has created the dimension of ( time ) and about the dimension of time its self.....but im fairly new to this forum an am not familiar with the over all atmosphere of here and your know about writing non scientific threads.....you have to be careful how you put down your words........so the other people dont pick it up as the writer is imposing ( like religious people do ) .....and thus go to an unfriendly state with you ............. 2 minutes ago, Genady said: But you said, and I edited that post......your right.....i have to refer to myself when talking about personal beliefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Saber said: you have to be careful how you put down your words Sure, I understand. If you clearly explain your position, can provide reason or evidence to support your position, and respond directly to the questions of others, you will get along great here even if others disagree with you. You also have the right to expect the same from others. If you don't know, simply say "I don't know". If you are shown to be in error, admit to it and move on. No one cares if someone makes a mistake; we all do it. If you mean "almost never", don't say "never". People will respond to the words you use, not the words you "meant" to use. This is a science site. Logic, reason and evidence are important, no matter the topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, zapatos said: Sure, I understand. If you clearly explain your position, can provide reason or evidence to support your position, and respond directly to the questions of others, you will get along great here even if others disagree with you. You also have the right to expect the same from others. If you don't know, simply say "I don't know". If you are shown to be in error, admit to it and move on. No one cares if someone makes a mistake; we all do it. If you mean "almost never", don't say "never". People will respond to the words you use, not the words you "meant" to use. This is a science site. Logic, reason and evidence are important, no matter the topic. I cannot provide reason and evidence........as thats not a scientific state its only a personal belief.....thats the reason that i prefer not talking about it......or @ least till im new here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, Saber said: I cannot provide reason and evidence........as thats not a scientific state its only a personal belief.....thats the reason that i prefer not talking about it......or @ least till im new here Well, this is a discussion site, so if you don't want to talk about it, it might be best not to bring up that particular topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, zapatos said: Well, this is a discussion site, so if you don't want to talk about it, it might be best not to bring up that particular topic. i want to.....but its not for this thread and also not for now you know...................im interested to share my thoughts.....and see what others think about it........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurplePuppy Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Suicide is wrong because it is the act of deliberately taking a life. Edited January 27, 2023 by PurplePuppy -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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