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using this new method man doesn't need an intelligent robot to come up with theories or invent


Muwanguzi joshua

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1 hour ago, Ghideon said:

Thanks for your reply. I'll wait until you provide some way you attempt to separate the valid data from the huge amount of invalid data.

 

Also note that you keep repeating the same simple examples. An analogy with your rectangle: Assume the program gives "The area of a rectangle with sides 4 meters long is the sum of the length of its sides." 4+4+4+4 gives you 16 which happens to match the numerical value of the area. If we knew enough about area calculation to spot the issue then we had no need for the program? 

For a more contemporary example, the output could be something like "convolutional neural networks generally provide better results for image recognition than an architecture based on a recurrent neural network". it would be one of millions of similar statements. 

I will answer that soon (it be noticed that the program will work out the solutions and notify us which  equation is constant then we shall validate the information.

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3 hours ago, Ghideon said:

Thanks for your reply. I'll wait until you provide some way you attempt to separate the valid data from the huge amount of invalid data.

 

Also note that you keep repeating the same simple examples. An analogy with your rectangle: Assume the program gives "The area of a rectangle with sides 4 meters long is the sum of the length of its sides." 4+4+4+4 gives you 16 which happens to match the numerical value of the area. If we knew enough about area calculation to spot the issue then we had no need for the program? 

For a more contemporary example, the output could be something like "convolutional neural networks generally provide better results for image recognition than an architecture based on a recurrent neural network". it would be one of millions of similar statements. 

I only know the term neural network for image recognition but I will sit down and read more about to give you good feed back if i manage to answer it.

For now if a paper says a system or method is better it has to show evidence of proof similar to the information we already have (in the program to compare with(the evidence we believe describes a good quality of a system.so the paper in the vast collection should include data to be calculated by our program or data that Matches with the stated definitions we currently have in our program.( the definitions come from what humans already know. It would be better if the program gets papers that use definitions that have the exactly spelling and order of words for our definitions.Since that paper already exists in the vast information(since its among the possible) the paper that has the right definitions and values that qualify our standard of wat we are looking for(may be efficiency) it's is the one we are able to view ( it would be selected from the many. Leaving out the vast data that has the wrong definitions and values.I believe for any thing to be compared it has to have properties to be calculated and values to be compaired. And it's claims have to match wat we think is right.

If wat we think is wrong then the paper in the vast amounts would be compared with the existing evidence and values that would match contradiction properties.(which would be certain equated values. not giving right values that won't match with required standard values.)

31 minutes ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

I only know the term neural network for image recognition but I will sit down and read more about to give you good feed back if i manage to answer it.

For now if a paper says a system or method is better it has to show evidence of proof similar to the information we already have (in the program to compare with(the evidence we believe describes a good quality of a system.so the paper in the vast collection should include data to be calculated by our program or data that Matches with the stated definitions we currently have in our program.( the definitions come from what humans already know. It would be better if the program gets papers that use definitions that have the exactly spelling and order of words for our definitions.Since that paper already exists in the vast information(since its among the possible) the paper that has the right definitions and values that qualify our standard of wat we are looking for(may be efficiency) it's is the one we are able to view ( it would be selected from the many. Leaving out the vast data that has the wrong definitions and values.I believe for any thing to be compared it has to have properties to be calculated and values to be compaired. And it's claims have to match wat we think is right.

If wat we think is wrong then the paper in the vast amounts would be compared with the existing evidence and values that would match contradiction properties.(which would be certain equated values. not giving right values that won't match with required standard values.)

If you we knew much about area we may not not need the program for areas.

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48 minutes ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

For now if a paper says a system or method is better it has to show evidence of proof similar to the information we already have (in the program to compare with(the evidence we believe describes a good quality of a system.

This sounds like a different* approach than the random sentence generation in OP; encoding or embedding a large amount of specific knowledge before running any searches?

Here is a paper about Deep Learning for Symbolic Mathematics: https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.01412

Quote

Neural networks have a reputation for being better at solving statistical or approximate problems than at performing calculations or working with symbolic data. In this paper, we show that they can be surprisingly good at more elaborated tasks in mathematics, such as symbolic integration and solving differential equations. We propose a syntax for representing mathematical problems, and methods for generating large datasets that can be used to train sequence-to-sequence models. We achieve results that outperform commercial Computer Algebra Systems such as Matlab or Mathematica.

 

Here is an article commenting on the paper: https://www.quantamagazine.org/symbolic-mathematics-finally-yields-to-neural-networks-20200520/

Quote

In theory, this kind of approach could derive unconventional “rules” that could make headway on problems that are currently unsolvable, by a person or a machine — mathematical problems like discovering new proofs, or understanding the nature of neural networks themselves.

Not that that’s happened yet, of course. But it’s clear that the team has answered the decades-old question — can AI do symbolic math? — in the affirmative. “Their models are well established. The algorithms are well established. They postulate the problem in a clever way,” said Wojciech Zaremba, co-founder of the AI research group OpenAI.

Maybe the above is a simple version of what you are trying to achieve? 

 

*) I may have misunderstood something, could simply be a language issue.

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43 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

This sounds like a different* approach than the random sentence generation in OP; encoding or embedding a large amount of specific knowledge before running any searches?

Here is a paper about Deep Learning for Symbolic Mathematics: https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.01412

 

Here is an article commenting on the paper: https://www.quantamagazine.org/symbolic-mathematics-finally-yields-to-neural-networks-20200520/

Maybe the above is a simple version of what you are trying to achieve? 

 

*) I may have misunderstood something, could simply be a language issue.

Let me read it carefully. I think my example is the same as sentence generating because the sentences have reasons (the computer should be able to indentify the reason and wat category of tests to apply on it. Their is a part in the paper that is selected because it looks like a statement that claims the object understudy has values needed for the program to calculate. If it's a biology program we expect the sentences to give us  

biology related values( temperatures and Dna) not c++ related values like arrays. I need to write a better explaination.So am going to prepare wat to write tommorow

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18 hours ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

I only know the term neural network for image recognition but I will sit down and read more about to give you good feed back if i manage to answer it.

For now if a paper says a system or method is better it has to show evidence of proof similar to the information we already have (in the program to compare with(the evidence we believe describes a good quality of a system.so the paper in the vast collection should include data to be calculated by our program or data that Matches with the stated definitions we currently have in our program.( the definitions come from what humans already know. It would be better if the program gets papers that use definitions that have the exactly spelling and order of words for our definitions.Since that paper already exists in the vast information(since its among the possible) the paper that has the right definitions and values that qualify our standard of wat we are looking for(may be efficiency) it's is the one we are able to view ( it would be selected from the many. Leaving out the vast data that has the wrong definitions and values.I believe for any thing to be compared it has to have properties to be calculated and values to be compaired. And it's claims have to match wat we think is right.

If wat we think is wrong then the paper in the vast amounts would be compared with the existing evidence and values that would match contradiction properties.(which would be certain equated values. not giving right values that won't match with required standard values.)

If you we knew much about area we may not not need the program for areas.

I think this suggestion can make you happy as I put together the information about neural networks.

If the software for neural networks 

didnot exist yet.

for us to get it made we would. 

We would use a program that finds  all information possible to be got from a combination of letters words and all written forms of information. So the program would out put all separate documents possible. (For finding source codes we need characters and symbols included. For C++)

The source codes for different softwares possible to be made from today's words and codes are among the vast amount of useless and useful data or documents. Our program should copy and paste the different document information into the area where the source code is put.

each document should be treated by the programming software as separate source file. An automatic system should be used to paste and compile information input if it's valid information (working codes) the software would run and (a program to test if the program is a better facial recognition software than the one we have.would test it . We just wait for the software that passes the test. Maybe even Better a.i can be got this way.

Let me know when this as changed your opinion about the story finder Its also called the information finder.

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HOW A.I  COULD BE BUILT.

I think this suggestion can make you all happy.

If the software for neural networks 

didnot exist yet.

for us to get it made we would. 

We would use a program that finds  all information possible to be got from a combination of letters words and all written forms of information. So the program would out put all separate documents possible. (For finding source codes we need characters and symbols included. For C++)

The source codes for different softwares possible to be made from today's words and codes are among the vast amount of useless and useful data or documents. Our program should copy and paste the different document information into the area where the source code is put.

each document should be treated by the programming software as separate source file. An automatic system should be used to paste and compile information input if it's valid information (working codes) the software would run and (a program to test if the program is a better facial recognition software than the one we have.would test it . We just wait for the software that passes the test. Maybe even Better a.i can be got this way.

Let me know when this as changed your opinion about the story finder Its also called the information finder.

On 12/18/2020 at 11:34 PM, Ghideon said:

This sounds like a different* approach than the random sentence generation in OP; encoding or embedding a large amount of specific knowledge before running any searches?

Here is a paper about Deep Learning for Symbolic Mathematics: https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.01412

 

Here is an article commenting on the paper: https://www.quantamagazine.org/symbolic-mathematics-finally-yields-to-neural-networks-20200520/

Maybe the above is a simple version of what you are trying to achieve? 

 

*) I may have misunderstood something, could simply be a language issue.

I had posted your reply where you couldn't see it so this below is probably equivalent to what you would want.

HOW A.I  COULD BE BUILT.

I think this suggestion can make you all happy.

If the software for neural networks 

didnot exist yet.

for us to get it made we would. 

We would use a program that finds  all information possible to be got from a combination of letters words and all written forms of information. So the program would out put all separate documents possible. (For finding source codes we need characters and symbols included. For C++)

The source codes for different softwares possible to be made from today's words and codes are among the vast amount of useless and useful data or documents. Our program should copy and paste the different document information into the area where the source code is put.

each document should be treated by the programming software as separate source file. An automatic system should be used to paste and compile information input if it's valid information (working codes) the software would run and (a program to test if the program is if its a better facial recognition software than the one we have.would test it . We just wait for the software that passes the test. Maybe even Better a.i can be got this way.

Let me know when this has made you happy your opinion about the story finder Its also called the information finder.

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1 hour ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

We would use a program that finds  all information possible to be got from a combination of letters words and all written forms of information. So the program would out put all separate documents possible. (For finding source codes we need characters and symbols included. For C++)

Generating combinations is not so hard. The problem is that there are so many combinations to generate.  

1 hour ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

We just wait for the software that passes the test.

For the approach you have provided the wait will be very long.

 

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4 hours ago, Ghideon said:

 

Generating combinations is not so hard. The problem is that there are so many combinations to generate.  

For the approach you have provided the wait will be very long.

 

Am trying to get the best way to make the combinations I have not got.it yet. So do you think the scientific community would be  exicited with my idea to try it out and see.

So if you interested in knowing how a paper with simple instructions like press windows menu and press save,press ok button. Would draw good animation if they were made for animation software or you already got it. From the comments.

it would be only press that and that ,and then press that, ) in the right order the commands would type in a certain cartoon by art and more.  A screen keyboard and more would be one of the requirements.

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55 minutes ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

So do you think the scientific community would be  exicited with my idea to try it out and see.

If you manage to reduce the search space to something that will be practical I guess there would be a lot of interest. There are many different approaches* in computer science to search for solutions in efficient ways when there are too many combinations to try. But I am not aware of any efficient way to do this by generating all combinations and looking at them one by one. Your idea looks similar to a brute force attack for cracking passwords; it is not practical when there are too many combinations to test.

 

55 minutes ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

So if you interested in knowing how a paper with simple instructions like press windows menu and press save,press ok button. Would draw good animation if they were made for animation software or you already got it. From the comments.

it would be only press that and that ,and then press that, ) in the right order the commands would type in a certain cartoon by art and more.  A screen keyboard and more would be one of the requirements.

Sorry, I do not understand the above and its connection to the topic.  

 

*) Discussing such approaches in better suited for a separate thread in mainstreams sections. 

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9 hours ago, Ghideon said:

If you manage to reduce the search space to something that will be practical I guess there would be a lot of interest. There are many different approaches* in computer science to search for solutions in efficient ways when there are too many combinations to try. But I am not aware of any efficient way to do this by generating all combinations and looking at them one by one. Your idea looks similar to a brute force attack for cracking passwords; it is not practical when there are too many combinations to test.

 

Sorry, I do not understand the above and its connection to the topic.  

 

*) Discussing such approaches in better suited for a separate thread in mainstreams sections. 

Well I didn't know that.on the other note I thought it would be important for scientists to talk about it. Since a software can be got that is very intelligent or since it can create softwares ( in order to encourage people to look for the solution) Bcos I think it might be hard to Finnish my work. But man is always optimistic.

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A note related to algorithms; quantum computers may have impact in the future:

Quote

In December 2020, a group based in USTC reached quantum supremacy by implementing a type of Boson sampling on 76 photons with their photonic quantum computer Jiuzhang. The paper states that to generate the number of samples the quantum computer generates in 20 seconds, a classical supercomputer would require 600 million years of computation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_supremacy
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6523/1460 (I do not have access to check this paper)

 

Note! I do not know if the problem described in this tread will benefit from quantum algorithms or quantum computing. My point is just that ongoing research tries to address tasks that are not practical to solve due to problems similar to the problems in OP's approach.

 

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On 12/14/2020 at 11:38 PM, MigL said:

So...

Assume I don't know the area of a rectangle.
The computer spits out two sentences.
1 - Bite an apple.
2 - Multiply length time width.

I try both.
If I don't know what area is, how do I know the area of a rectangle is not an apple with a bite taken out of it ??

If I know that area is length times width already, why would I need to run this idiotic program in the first place ????

Did I answer you? I remember like I answered you.

On 12/14/2020 at 11:18 PM, zapatos said:

Just because a sentence "makes sense" does not make it true. 

And if you can recognize which sentences are true, then you must have already known it to be true. So you've discovered nothing new.

Would you want to know how a computer would discover source code and compile the source code

For the source code you need symbols, numbers, and letters.maybe a.i can be made this way in the future with out human labour.

if the source code runs the software is tested if it is the one we want. E.g (If it is a chat bot it must reply to messages. But this might require.better technology as some one on here said.)

On 12/14/2020 at 10:09 PM, Bufofrog said:

This makes no sense.  You would have to already know the answer before you could know which words to use and then to recognize which sentence "makes sense".

Source code for intelligent software can be found this way if they exist in today's codes. The computer would test the source code or any paper to see if it runs . If it runs it would test the software and see if it is the software we want. We only check the software that has passed the test.

you might need to add symbols and numbers because most programming languages are written like that.

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16 hours ago, Ghideon said:

A note related to algorithms; quantum computers may have impact in the future:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_supremacy
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6523/1460 (I do not have access to check this paper)

 

Note! I do not know if the problem described in this tread will benefit from quantum algorithms or quantum computing. My point is just that ongoing research tries to address tasks that are not practical to solve due to problems similar to the problems in OP's approach.

 

Thank you very much now am looking into many computers processing a sizeable group of might be source codes. separately it could be the way. If the combinations can be created in time away.if they can one computer system would process a different amount of combinations starting at different levels. Which means the problem is now creating small computers or systems equivalent.If you interested to know in the future please let me know.

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11 hours ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

Thank you very much now am looking into many computers processing a sizeable group of might be source codes. separately it could be the way. If the combinations can be created in time away.if they can one computer system would process a different amount of combinations starting at different levels. Which means the problem is now creating small computers or systems equivalent.If you interested to know in the future please let me know.

It think you are missing the, or avoiding, the problem: Assuming you generate combinations of words that are allowed in a programming language: A quick calculation will show you that if you fill the entire visible universe with super computers and let them run for 13.5 billion years (roughly the time since Big Bang according to current models) that will not on average be enough to locate a solution for the approach presented.  

 

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19 hours ago, Ghideon said:

It think you are missing the, or avoiding, the problem: Assuming you generate combinations of words that are allowed in a programming language: A quick calculation will show you that if you fill the entire visible universe with super computers and let them run for 13.5 billion years (roughly the time since Big Bang according to current models) that will not on average be enough to locate a solution for the approach presented.  

 

Thank you very much.So there is no way this can be preserved by any one in case it may work in the future? it could be very rewarding. If something new comes up in the future.Or that quantum computer works in the future.On the other note is it still important to give you a contemporary example.The idea of nuild a computer looked too in practical at first. After all man could take very long to make human level a.i.

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1 hour ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

Thank you very much.So there is no way this can be preserved by any one in case it may work in the future? it could be very rewarding. If something new comes up in the future.Or that quantum computer works in the future.On the other note is it still important to give you a contemporary example.The idea of nuild a computer looked too in practical at first. After all man could take very long to make human level a.i.

For further study you may have a look at the travelling salesman problem:

Quote

The travelling salesman problem (also called the traveling salesperson problem or TSP) asks the following question: "Given a list of cities and the distances between each pair of cities, what is the shortest possible route that visits each city exactly once and returns to the origin city?" It is an NP-hard problem in combinatorial optimization, important in theoretical computer science and operations research.

Here is a passage that connects to your approach, describing how trying combinations is not a practically useful approach. In your case the goal is not cheapest solution but a combination of programming constructs that solves a problem better. But in my opinion the analogy holds at an abstract level.

Quote

The most direct solution would be to try all permutations (ordered combinations) and see which one is cheapest (using brute-force search). The running time for this approach lies within a polynomial factor of O(n!), the factorial of the number of cities, so this solution becomes impractical even for only 20 cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem

There have been many improvements that makes it possible to find solutions for larger and larger sets of cities and distances. 

My point is that travelling salesman problem could be a starting point for understanding why the current approach you have suggested is impractical. It may also show how scientists approached an initially impractical problem. I believe the travelling salesman problem is a reasonable start since it is easy to understand and have been studied extensively. Note: It does not solve the problem you have presented, it may act as a guide for further learning.

 

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23 hours ago, Ghideon said:

For further study you may have a look at the travelling salesman problem:

Here is a passage that connects to your approach, describing how trying combinations is not a practically useful approach. In your case the goal is not cheapest solution but a combination of programming constructs that solves a problem better. But in my opinion the analogy holds at an abstract level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem

There have been many improvements that makes it possible to find solutions for larger and larger sets of cities and distances. 

My point is that travelling salesman problem could be a starting point for understanding why the current approach you have suggested is impractical. It may also show how scientists approached an initially impractical problem. I believe the travelling salesman problem is a reasonable start since it is easy to understand and have been studied extensively. Note: It does not solve the problem you have presented, it may act as a guide for further learning.

 

Okay thank you very much.If you know any way I can get support or make it kept as might be important in the future plissé let me know. As I try to improve it and make it better.But do you think it is important in any way as a discovery.

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11 hours ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

Okay thank you very much.If you know any way I can get support or make it kept as might be important in the future plissé let me know. As I try to improve it and make it better.But do you think it is important in any way as a discovery.

Machine learning in general is important*. Below is another paper at least partly connected to you idea; analyze scientific papers and combinations of papers to find overlooked information or suggest areas where more research could be fruitful.

Quote

“Without telling it anything about materials science, it learned concepts like the periodic table and the crystal structure of metals,” said team leader and paper co-author Anubhav Jain in a statement. “That hinted at the potential of the technique. But probably the most interesting thing we figured out is, you can use this algorithm to address gaps in materials research, things that people should study but haven’t studied so far.”

https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2019/07/03/machine-learning-algorithms-can-uncover-hidden-scientific-knowledge/?utm_source=thenewstack&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=platform

The paper may be behind paywall: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1335-8

 

*) In my opinion, I am biased due to my profession.

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1 hour ago, Ghideon said:

Machine learning in general is important*. Below is another paper at least partly connected to you idea; analyze scientific papers and combinations of papers to find overlooked information or suggest areas where more research could be fruitful.

https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2019/07/03/machine-learning-algorithms-can-uncover-hidden-scientific-knowledge/?utm_source=thenewstack&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=platform

The paper may be behind paywall: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1335-8

 

*) In my opinion, I am biased due to my profession.

Thank you very much.Do you think putting it here on speculation is beneficial bcos its next year that I present it to a journal.Could this yield some results by any chance before mid next year. I think science fiction would love it since it could create dangerous A.I.We didn't make the A.I this time.so they may make it look like it can be unknown.

*Am   bringing a contemporary example for you And a separate thread For it.(some time from now.) Some thing tells me you don't need the neural networks example. Any more.bcos of the previous example.on a.i.

 

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11 hours ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

Do you think putting it here on speculation is beneficial bcos its next year that I present it to a journal.Could this yield some results by any chance before mid next year.

You have not yet addressed the problems that prevents your method from being useful. I do not know to what extent this forum thread will help. 

Your method as presented:

On 12/14/2020 at 7:46 PM, Muwanguzi joshua said:
THE STORY FINDER METHOD.
This is how the story finder method works.
 
Steps to take.(how the method works).
.
Your task is to find all the sentences or stories possible in a selection of words.
1.List all possible sentences,stories or theories in the words that exist today or in a selection e.t.c.(you can create a software to do so.which could exist today.)
2 Look for the ones that make sense.
3.Try them out to find out if it is true. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Ghideon said:

 

You have not yet addressed the problems that prevents your method from being useful. I do not know to what extent this forum thread will help. 

Your method as presented:

 

 

Well am looking into seeing if we had many quantum computers running on ( it's one that turns on works out the problem sends the example that worked to our classical computer(code for A.I)or equations that have proved to be constant.

Each  quantum computer would work on combinations in different ranges( since some combinations come before others) meaning they are ordered separately. Since our quantum computer runs for 20 seconds we may need a lot.i hope it's code can work on normal computers,or a solution is possible.

 

If you think of a even a small possibility pliz let me know.

By possibility I mean chance I may benefit.

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2 hours ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

If you think of a even a small possibility pliz let me know.

By possibility I mean chance I may benefit.

If you list the obstacles and problems that you need to overcome, may you could present a guess?

 

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13 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

If you list the obstacles and problems that you need to overcome, may you could present a guess?

Actually I was trying to to say if you hear of any thing good about posting stuff on here let me know."advantageous to me"

on the other note am trying to work on the quantum computer possibility information.

17 minutes ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:
35 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

If you list the obstacles and problems that you need to overcome, may you could present a guess?

Actually I was trying to to say if you hear of any thing good about posting stuff on here let me know."advantageous to me"

on the other note am trying to work on the quantum computer possibility information.

But then am just using Google to know about it if their is information that I wouldn't find their pliz let me know so I don't present you a bad solution.well I just hope the wAy to convert working code for software into something a classical computer can understand.

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1 hour ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

well I just hope the wAy to convert working code for software into something a classical computer can understand.

Convert code into something a computer can understand? That sounds like you mean a compiler. 

Quote

The name "compiler" is primarily used for programs that translate source code from a high-level programming language to a lower level language (e.g., assembly language, object code, or machine code) to create an executable program.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiler

 

1 hour ago, Muwanguzi joshua said:

But then am just using Google to know about it if their is information that I wouldn't find their pliz let me know so I don't present you a bad solution

Sorry, I do not understand what you wish to discuss. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

 

Convert code into something a computer can understand? That sounds like you mean a compiler. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compiler

 

Sorry, I do not understand what you wish to discuss. 

 

I just thought their is a probability that universities don't put information on the Internet for free  and it's for paying to get it. 

Dont forget the trick where a paper instructs a program to draw  stuff and calculate it would also create calculus.Am bringing the physics explanation soon after the quantum compuuter.information

Am improving the math work soon using calculus as an example.

Just now, Muwanguzi joshua said:

I just thought their is a probability that universities don't put information on the Internet for free  and it's for paying to get it. 

Dont forget the trick where a paper instructs a program to draw  stuff and calculate it would also create calculus.Am bringing the physics explanation soon after the quantum compuuter.information

Am improving the math work soon using calculus as an example.

Also I meet a compiler that enables code that would work on a quantum computer to also work on a classical computer

This could be a problem but I need to investigate more.

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