Heaven - Rebirth as a Dog or Cat

[RamaRaksha]

Hi: Most people know that Hindus believe that we might come back as lower life forms - bugs, animals

I want to correct some misconceptions on this issue

First, these ideas were not limited to Hindus alone - we don't do that - We are ALL God's Children and His/Her rules apply equally to ALL of us

Second, most religions view God as a Master - reward(Heaven) & punishment(Hell) is how he operates. Hindus view God as a Parent/Teacher - a Parent/Teacher instructs, Teaches but does not punish

So, being reborn as a Dog or a cat is not a punishment but a Choice that we made of our own free will

Thru Life God has taught us that we get to stay in the nest - fed, protected, sheltered & cared for - for only a little while. We can't stay a child forever - we have to move out of the nest, grow up, learn to stand on our own two feet, make a living and face the world on our own. Not just us, but ALL life forms on this earth obey this law

Heaven contradicts this law - it says we can run back to our childhood and this time stay there forever - God will be our Nanny - He will feed, protect, shelter and care for us - zero work, no responsibilities or worries, just like what we had in childhood. But God did not create Heaven or Hell - Religions did 

But God is not cruel - those who seek heaven are sending a clear message to God - Life is too tough for them - they want an easier life & that is EXACTLY what they WILL get

As a Dog or a cat - as a pet - they will get the easy life of Heaven - their master will feed, protect, shelter and care for them - zero work, zero responsibilities - Dogs can just lie about all day!

Here is the video that encapsulates what I wrote - 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQq8KRo6RI0&feature=youtu.be Careful what you wish for, it will come true

 

 

[joigus]

4 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

Hi: Most people know that Hindus believe that we might come back as lower life forms - bugs, animals

I want to correct some misconceptions on this issue

First, these ideas were not limited to Hindus alone - we don't do that - We are ALL God's Children and His/Her rules apply equally to ALL of us

Second, most religions view God as a Master - reward(Heaven) & punishment(Hell) is how he operates. Hindus view God as a Parent/Teacher - a Parent/Teacher instructs, Teaches but does not punish

So, being reborn as a Dog or a cat is not a punishment but a Choice that we made of our own free will

Thru Life God has taught us that we get to stay in the nest - fed, protected, sheltered & cared for - for only a little while. We can't stay a child forever - we have to move out of the nest, grow up, learn to stand on our own two feet, make a living and face the world on our own. Not just us, but ALL life forms on this earth obey this law

Heaven contradicts this law - it says we can run back to our childhood and this time stay there forever - God will be our Nanny - He will feed, protect, shelter and care for us - zero work, no responsibilities or worries, just like what we had in childhood. But God did not create Heaven or Hell - Religions did 

But God is not cruel - those who seek heaven are sending a clear message to God - Life is too tough for them - they want an easier life & that is EXACTLY what they WILL get

As a Dog or a cat - as a pet - they will get the easy life of Heaven - their master will feed, protect, shelter and care for them - zero work, zero responsibilities - Dogs can just lie about all day!

Here is the video that encapsulates what I wrote - 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQq8KRo6RI0&feature=youtu.be Careful what you wish for, it will come true

 

 

Why do you write "Dog" with capital D? Is this some kind of palindromic play with words?

Why can't you reincarnate into a bat, or an eland, or a moss? Does it have to be a domestic mammal?

 

[dimreepr]

7 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

Heaven contradicts this law - it says we can run back to our childhood and this time stay there forever - God will be our Nanny - He will feed, protect, shelter and care for us - zero work, no responsibilities or worries, just like what we had in childhood. But God did not create Heaven or Hell - Religions did

What's the point of this contradiction?

If you can't find heaven now, you're in the hell of tomorrow; neither god nor religion taught me that. 

7 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

Careful what you wish for, it will come true

Maybe, maybe not; I think a more pertinent statement is, careful you don't exchange a wish, for a smile now.

Or is it the other way round??? 😣

Edited December 26, 2020 by dimreepr

[MigL]

What does it say about you, if you're reborn as a dog in Yulin, China, during the dog meat eating festival ?
( apparently torture and skinning alive 'tenderizes' the meat )

[noquacks]

14 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

Hi: Most people know that Hindus believe that we might come back as lower life forms - bugs, animals

I want to correct some misconceptions on this issue

First, these ideas were not limited to Hindus alone - we don't do that - We are ALL God's Children and His/Her rules apply equally to ALL of us

Second, most religions view God as a Master - reward(Heaven) & punishment(Hell) is how he operates. Hindus view God as a Parent/Teacher - 

 

 

I prefer not to view God as my Master, thats why I dont believe in any God. And I am not his child, and he is not my Father, nor is any Priest my Father. I do not abide by his so called "rules" (to observe the Sabbath, etc etc). The Hindu cult is much like any other. Based on fiction, superstition, myth and legends. And as far as 'coming back as .......life forms", no "evidence" of reincarnation has ever passed scientific scrutiny. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by noquacks

[J.C.MacSwell]

9 hours ago, joigus said:

Why do you write "Dog" with capital D? Is this some kind of palindromic play with words?

Why can't you reincarnate into a bat, or an eland, or a moss? Does it have to be a domestic mammal?

 

Reminds me of the dyslexic agnostic insomniac...he stayed up all night wondering if there really was a Dog...

[joigus]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Reminds me of the dyslexic agnostic insomniac...he stayed up all night wondering if there really was a Dog...

🤣

[RamaRaksha]

12 hours ago, joigus said:

Why do you write "Dog" with capital D? Is this some kind of palindromic play with words?

Why can't you reincarnate into a bat, or an eland, or a moss? Does it have to be a domestic mammal?

 

The Dog issue - Just what I wrote - please don't read anything in it - I am not that complicated

As for being reincarnated as some other animal - yes you can - I picked a Dog because we can see it satisfies the conditions of heaven - some nice being nicely taking good care of us, nothing to do but lie about all day and enjoy the easy good life

 

2 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Reminds me of the dyslexic agnostic insomniac...he stayed up all night wondering if there really was a Dog...

wow all that just by using a capital letter - boy you are deep

But that's what religious hate does

2 hours ago, noquacks said:

I prefer not to view God as my Master, thats why I dont believe in any God. And I am not his child, and he is not my Father, nor is any Priest my Father. I do not abide by his so called "rules" (to observe the Sabbath, etc etc). The Hindu cult is much like any other. Based on fiction, superstition, myth and legends. And as far as 'coming back as .......life forms", no "evidence" of reincarnation has ever passed scientific scrutiny. 

The rules are life's rules - that we all abide by. You know that you can't stay in the nest all your life - you will have to move out - you MUST grow up and face the world

Not just us but all creatures of this world obey this nature's law which I call God's law 

This is not about believing in God - this is about obeying nature's laws

The concept of Heaven contradicts such laws - it says one can remain a helpless child for eternity. Poor God has to play the Nanny to so-called Adults who are shameless enough to think they can just sit and sponge off him for eternity

They decide their own fate - such a life is what they want, well, such a life is exactly what they WILL get

[J.C.MacSwell]

5 minutes ago, RamaRaksha said:

 

 

wow all that just by using a capital letter - boy you are deep

But that's what religious hate does

 

No disrespect intended. It just reminded me of a joke.

[joigus]

7 minutes ago, RamaRaksha said:

wow all that just by using a capital letter - boy you are deep

That was me.

[RamaRaksha]

7 hours ago, MigL said:

What does it say about you, if you're reborn as a dog in Yulin, China, during the dog meat eating festival ?
( apparently torture and skinning alive 'tenderizes' the meat )

The point is that Heaven is a fantasy - we are not going to get EVERYTHING we wish for in a fantasy

Have you seen Twilight zone episodes where the guy thinks he made a good deal and then finds that there is a catch to such a deal?

Same way - despite all that life or God has taught us millions view God as their ticket to the easy good life - just sit about sponging off him for eternity!

How does that make any sense? Why would God be a servant to billions and keep them in comfort, tending to their pleasures of the flesh?

But that is the life that people want, and they will get such a life or something close to it & a Dog's life is one of them

Most dogs do not get adopted, some dogs get adopted, have the good life for a few years and then might be abandoned by the roadside when the family tires of them

Maybe being reborn as a Tree is better? or a bug? You see even less pain & suffering that way

2 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

No disrespect intended. It just reminded me of a joke.

Sorry also - I misunderstood 

I just write - I meant nothing deep by using a capital letter and I wish people would stop looking into other things and simply address the post

9 hours ago, dimreepr said:

What's the point of this contradiction?

If you can't find heaven now, you're in the hell of tomorrow; neither god nor religion taught me that. 

Maybe, maybe not; I think a more pertinent statement is, careful you don't exchange a wish, for a smile now.

Or is it the other way round??? 😣

Basically the idea that God is a Sugar Daddy - ready and waiting to keep billions in cozy comfort is ridiculous

Every time I have asked - what does one DO in heaven? Describe a day to me - Theists run away

Heaven is a fantasy of the weak, the coward, the lazy - zero work, zero responsibilities, free food, shelter, protected and cared for 

That's not happening in real life - there is no fool down here giving away millions so that we can just sit and enjoy the easy good life

But of course, in a fantasy? sure? And that is what religions are doing - happy to make cheap promises that these greedy theists want to hear - knowing full well that none of these promises can be verified

What Hinduism is saying is that there is a cost to this foolishness

[noquacks]

27 minutes ago, RamaRaksha said:

The Dog issue - Just what I wrote - please don't read anything in it - I am not that complicated

As for being reincarnated as some other animal - yes you can - I picked a Dog because we can see it satisfies the conditions of heaven - some nice being nicely taking good care of us, nothing to do but lie about all day and enjoy the easy good life

The rules are life's rules - that we all abide by. You know that you can't stay in the nest all your life - you will have to move out - you MUST grow up and face the world

Not just us but all creatures of this world obey this nature's law which I call God's law 

This is not about believing in God - this is about obeying nature's laws

The concept of Heaven contradicts such laws - it says one can remain a helpless child for eternity. Poor God has to play the Nanny to so-called Adults who are shameless enough to think they can just sit and sponge off him for eternity

They decide their own fate - such a life is what they want, well, such a life is exactly what they WILL get

Well then, be careful how you use the word "God". Your post is a bit confusing....... 

[Endy0816]

All my pets are expected to work defending the home from those reincarnated as vermin and must come running when called, no exceptions.

[RamaRaksha]

2 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

All my pets are expected to work defending the home from those reincarnated as vermin and must come running when called, no exceptions.

The point of the post is that there is only one World - this one! No running away and hiding in some magic land in the sky. God is not a Sugar Daddy, He is not running a Retirement Home in the sky. So those vermin is YOU or your friends, buddy

3 hours ago, noquacks said:

Well then, be careful how you use the word "God". Your post is a bit confusing....... 

We are not talking Einstein here - my post is not confusing - it is not pleasing 

[zapatos]

5 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

The point is that Heaven is a fantasy - we are not going to get EVERYTHING we wish for in a fantasy

Have you seen Twilight zone episodes where the guy thinks he made a good deal and then finds that there is a catch to such a deal?

Same way - despite all that life or God has taught us millions view God as their ticket to the easy good life - just sit about sponging off him for eternity!

How does that make any sense? Why would God be a servant to billions and keep them in comfort, tending to their pleasures of the flesh?

This never ceases to amuse me.

"You silly people think God works THAT way when in reality he works THIS way."

[Endy0816]

1 hour ago, RamaRaksha said:

The point of the post is that there is only one World - this one! No running away and hiding in some magic land in the sky. God is not a Sugar Daddy, He is not running a Retirement Home in the sky. So those vermin is YOU or your friends, buddy

They or I would then reincarnate. Is suffering not part of existence until reaching Nirvana?

Not sure about Hinduism, but there are realms in Buddhism that might be said to be what the Christian faith considers as Heaven and Hell.  Perhaps Christianity is simply mistaken about their nature. Who can say?

Edited December 27, 2020 by Endy0816

[dimreepr]

13 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

Every time I have asked - what does one DO in heaven? Describe a day to me

Heaven is a smile when all you want, is to frown.

13 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

Heaven is a fantasy of the weak, the coward, the lazy - zero work, zero responsibilities, free food, shelter, protected and cared for 

That's not happening in real life - there is no fool down here giving away millions so that we can just sit and enjoy the easy good life

If you're starving, heaven is a stale bagel found on the floor.

13 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

What Hinduism is saying is that there is a cost to this foolishness

What Hinduism is saying is, what goes around comes around; if you act like a worm/toad/etc you are a worm/toad/etc.

13 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

That's not happening in real life - there is no fool down here giving away millions so that we can just sit and enjoy the easy good life

If you think charity is foolish, I have to hope you will need some - it's the only way you'll learn the folly of your thinking. 😉

 

When a criminal escapes justice, they spend their day's in the hell of being caught. 

[joigus]

58 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

When a criminal escapes justice, they spend their day's in the hell of being caught. 

That's a nice one.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Heaven is a smile when all you want, is to frown.

If you're starving, heaven is a stale bagel found on the floor.

It’s all so clear to me now. You’re Alanis Morissette!! 😂 

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

It’s all so clear to me now. You’re Alanis Morissette!! 😂 

Yeah, no... there's nothing ironic about starving...

[RamaRaksha]

14 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

They or I would then reincarnate. Is suffering not part of existence until reaching Nirvana?

Not sure about Hinduism, but there are realms in Buddhism that might be said to be what the Christian faith considers as Heaven and Hell.  Perhaps Christianity is simply mistaken about their nature. Who can say?

Again this idea that there is some way we get to live the easy good Retired life somewhere - whether we call it Nirvana or Heaven - is only possible right here on earth

A Tree has little or no brain - it feels no pain - some trees live for thousands of years longer than even the Pyramids were built - free food falls from the sky - Heaven!

The lesser the brain, the less pain & suffering & vice versa

We have a bigger brain - ideas come rushing in - my health, my job, my country, my loved ones, their well-being, my dreams, my hopes - all of this comes with Pain & suffering

All people who hope for an easy life in Heaven or Nirvana are doing is ending up as lower life forms and then they will get the peace and quiet that they want

6 hours ago, dimreepr said:

What Hinduism is saying is, what goes around comes around; if you act like a worm/toad/etc you are a worm/toad/etc.

If you think charity is foolish, I have to hope you will need some - it's the only way you'll learn the folly of your thinking. 😉

When a criminal escapes justice, they spend their day's in the hell of being caught. 

Not really - there is no magic Accountant in the sky rewarding/punishing us for our acts. If we insist on driving fast on wet slick roads, and ending up in a crash, it's not some magic man doing this, punishing us - we did this to ourselves. Same thing - if a student does not study, spends his days partying, well he gets bad grades - nothing is coming around - it's just what he chose to do, he chose his bad grades

Same way - ending up as a Dog is a choice of those who chase after Heaven - they want the easy lazy life - sit about doing nothing while shamelessly sponging off someone else

I find it amazing how even the best of educated do not ask questions - "What do we DO in Heaven?", "How do we make a living?", "how much does it pay?", "Is it like living in a Communist state? Where everyone is the same, lives the same in the same cookie-cutter homes, everyone gets a home allotted to them?" "how do we spend a day much less eternity?"

Amazingly no one even asks such questions! It is their choice to remain brainwashed by religion & ending up as Dogs

As for Charity: Someone just letting you live like a child, catering to all your comforts while you just sit about is not charity - charity is about helping people in need, people who have been hit hard by unfortunate events - like the covid19 we have now - millions have lost jobs because of it thru no fault of their own

That is completely different from Heaven - where able-bodied men and women think they can just sit about sponging off someone else - that is what Prostitutes and leeches do - they find rich Sugar Daddies, flatter them sky-high and hope the rich guy will reward them with the easy good life

5 hours ago, joigus said:

That's a nice one.

To me it is amazing that we continue to remain utterly brainwashed by these primitive ideas of heaven and hell

Hell is not Justice, it is vengeance. Hollywood loves Vengeance - the hero/heroine gets hurt in the beginning of the movie - the Kill Bill movies - then it is a blood-fest the rest of the movie - the audience goes home happy their blood-lust satisfied

But few ask - did the hero/heroine get justice? Did they get what they lost? Their loved ones back? In the Kill Bill movie, the heroine kills another woman, a mother whose daughter sees what is going on - guess what that little girl will do once she grows up? It is an eye for an eye and it makes the whole world blind 

Whether Hitler or Madoff or any evil person is suffering in hell or not does nothing for their victims. The victims get no justice either with these criminals being nicely forgiven (and here again the silence of the educated as religion speaks with both tongues - happily telling the criminals that nice God will forgive, all you have to do is repent, then turning around and telling the victims that God will deliver Vengeance in hell)

So no justice from God!

Makes sense - these are ideas of God from primitive people - living under Kings/Dictators in a violent world - this the best they could come up with

The amazing stupidity is to see brilliant, highly intelligent people of today blindly following these primitive ideas - just amazing!

[joigus]

31 minutes ago, RamaRaksha said:

The amazing stupidity is to see brilliant, highly intelligent people of today blindly following these primitive ideas - just amazing!

Brilliance and intelligence are no antidotes against the primitive equipment that's inside our brain. When our basal ganglia are speaking, our brilliance tends to be suppressed. Propositional calculus or C programming are no use against brutal, primitive aggression.

If people harbour these primitive reactions when their life is not at risk, that's another matter.

OTOH, knowledge or brilliance don't necessarily provide you with wisdom. So I think I at least partially see your point, although I'm not as surprised as you are.

And I fail to see how this all bears any relationship with the concept of being re-born as a dog.

Furthermore, justice, like religion, is human-made, not natural or divine.

[Phi for All]

17 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

The point of the post is that there is only one World - this one! No running away and hiding in some magic land in the sky. God is not a Sugar Daddy, He is not running a Retirement Home in the sky. So those vermin is YOU or your friends, buddy

We are not talking Einstein here - my post is not confusing - it is not pleasing 

!

Moderator Note

It's also NOT in the spirit of the religion section of a science discussion forum. You are clearly preaching here, telling us there is only one way to think, and that's against the rules. If you want to make claims like that here, then you have to show evidence to support your ideas. More than hand waiving, more than yelling from a soapbox. Either stop making the claims or start supporting them. You have some people interested in talking to you, but they'll start reporting you if you don't follow the rules.

 

[RamaRaksha]

23 minutes ago, joigus said:

Brilliance and intelligence are no antidotes against the primitive equipment that's inside our brain. When our basal ganglia are speaking, our brilliance tends to be suppressed. Propositional calculus or C programming are no use against brutal, primitive aggression.

If people harbour these primitive reactions when their life is not at risk, that's another matter.

OTOH, knowledge or brilliance don't necessarily provide you with wisdom. So I think I at least partially see your point, although I'm not as surprised as you are.

And I fail to see how this all bears any relationship with the concept of being re-born as a dog.

Furthermore, justice, like religion, is human-made, not natural or divine.

Agree with you totally on the last part - we made religions, we created our Gods

To me the Christian/Islamic God is none other than their local King/Dictator is plain to see - the same rewarding of loyalty - you are either loyal to me or else - Master/Slave religions

Back in the day if your king was weak and/or disinterested and you see a neighboring King taking better care of his citizens, you might seek refuge under him and the first thing that King would ask for is your loyalty - a slave may serve only one master - in a violent world where enemies are everywhere, no King is going to harbor an enemy king's subject

Hence Heaven - God's "kingdom" is for loyal believers only. He will reward you with Heaven - the easy good life - only if you join "his" religion, pray only to him, all other Gods or Kings are to be hated, they are evil, no good. Obey and be rewarded - Abraham ready and willing to kill his own son - Master says Kill, Master MUST be obeyed

simple, primitive ideas that made much sense to those living under Kings/Dictators

we don't live under Kings anymore but we do see Dictators and their supporters willing to kill, murder and rape if he is threatened. The dictator is their meal ticket, their access to the easy good life and any threat to him must be dealt with harshly

we see religious people behaving the same way - esp in Islamic countries - any out of line comment that disses their master will be dealt with extreme harshness. In the west the threats of hell to anyone not being with this religion - OPENLY - in Ray Romano's "Everybody loves Raymond"  one episode had the older brother saying he has joined another religion - he is seen wearing Indian clothes, they don't say Hinduism but by now I have come to expect the easy bigotry in this country. Anyway the mother throws a fit - "Do you want to end up in hell, robert?", she screams

As a Hindu that was strange to me - why would God torture people in  hell just for changing religions? he is the same person, it's not like the person has changed. For Hindus, religion does not matter, who we are as people, our Karmas, Actions matter

But ah if we see it from a Master/Slave perspective - the slave now is serving another Master - He must be punished for doing so. We don't matter, only loyalty to the Master matters

These are sick, primitive backward ideas - but are the dominant ones in the 21st century! Gods & supporters that behave like Putin and his supporters!

Just amazing to see this - and not one educated person has a clue that he or she is doing this!

 

58 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

!

Moderator Note

It's also NOT in the spirit of the religion section of a science discussion forum. You are clearly preaching here, telling us there is only one way to think, and that's against the rules. If you want to make claims like that here, then you have to show evidence to support your ideas. More than hand waiving, more than yelling from a soapbox. Either stop making the claims or start supporting them. You have some people interested in talking to you, but they'll start reporting you if you don't follow the rules.

 

To the moderator: Can a Christian claim that there is only one way to Heaven, only the followers of Jesus get in? Is that not his belief? Do you protest then? Just curious

What if a Scientist says there is only One World? This One? We have ideas of parallel worlds, multi-verse and scientists have mocked it saying evidence for such things do not exist

That is what I wrote here - there is only one world, this one- A world where one must grow up, earn a living. The very concept of Heaven is odd - billions just sitting about doing nothing - it does not make any sense

1 hour ago, joigus said:

And I fail to see how this all bears any relationship with the concept of being re-born as a dog.

 

Simple really - Hinduism believes that we move up from a lower life form to a higher and the reverse is possible as well

Life as a human being or any life down on earth is not easy - it is harsh. Religions came up with the idea of Heaven - the lazy life - people seem happy with such an idea - why anyone would nicely cater to the comforts of billions of people just sitting about doing nothing, sponging off him and will do so for eternity? - any educated person should be asking that but they do not

Well, if such an easy lazy life is what they want, they will get it. As a Dog they will get their heaven - their master will feed, protect, shelter and care for them - zero work, zero worries, zero responsibilities - Heaven

[zapatos]

2 hours ago, RamaRaksha said:

The very concept of Heaven is odd - billions just sitting about doing nothing - it does not make any sense

Well there you have it. What more proof would one need?