Trump Pressures Raffensperger to Commit Fraud

[Airbrush]

Trump spent one hour on the phone with GA sec of state, with lawyers, and Mark Meadows.  This was after 18 attempts by Trump to talk with Raffensperger.  Trump has a complete list of the lies that were thrown out of over 50 courts in front of him on the call.  That is why it sounds like he "knows" something.  First listen to the short 5-minute Youtube and if you have the stomach for it, you can listen to the full one hour of insanity.

Audio: Trump berates Ga. secretary of state, urges him to ‘find’ votes - YouTube

Now buckle up for one hour of insanity!

Full Phone Call: Trump Pressures Georgia Secretary of State To Recount Election Votes | NBC News - YouTube

The question is does Trump REALLY believe that there was massive voter fraud in GA?  If he really believes it then he may not be guilty of fraud.  Trump is in a bubble of approval like he was all his life.  He was spoiled by this bubble of approval.  When Trump hears fake news about voter fraud, Trump WANTS to believe it so he DOES BELIEVE IT.  Those around him never puncture his bubble of delusion, they just dance around it so Trump remains deluded!!

Edited January 4, 2021 by Airbrush

[J.C.MacSwell]

8 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

Trump spend one hour on the phone with GA sec of state, with lawyers, and Mark Meadows.  Trump has a complete list of the lies that were thrown out of over 50 courts.  First listen to the short Youtube and if you have the stomach for it, you can listen to the full one hour of insanity.

Audio: Trump berates Ga. secretary of state, urges him to ‘find’ votes - YouTube

Now buckle up for one hour of insanity!

Full Phone Call: Trump Pressures Georgia Secretary of State To Recount Election Votes | NBC News - YouTube

The question is does Trump REALLY believe that there was massive voter fraud in GA?  If he really believes it then he may not be guilty of fraud.  Trump is in a bubble of approval like he was all his life.  He was spoiled by this bubble of approval.  When Trump hears fake news about voter fraud, Trump wants to believe it so he DOES BELIEVE IT.  Those around him never puncture his bubble of delusion, they just dance around it so Trump remains deluded!!

Without actually listening to the links I suspect you pretty much nailed it.

[iNow]

16 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

The question is does Trump REALLY believe that there was massive voter fraud in GA? 

In the end, it doesn't really matter what he believes, but due to the way he phrases his comments like he's "just asking questions" suggests he knows very well he's lying. It's intentional.

It's virtue signaling to his supporters. It's an attempt to delegitimize Biden (like the birther issue was used to delegitimize Obama). It's laying the groundwork for a possible 2nd Trump term in 2024. It's setting him up as the leader of the party speaking out and setting the narrative... or to be the leader of the new "Trump-party" which might split from the Republican party in upcoming years... Trump republicans versus the rest of the republicans. 

It's also about rejecting the Georgia Senate race... if the Democrats win, they'll simply say that was rigged/fraudulent too and push every lever they can to prevent the winning Senators from being seated. After all... if there was fraud in Georgia during the presidential election, it only stands to reason there was fraud in the senate runoff... Repeat it enough times and people will believe it. 

In the end, it doesn't really matter what Trump believes. What matters is the above outcomes of his actions, but yes. I do think he knows full well he's lying. It's sort of been par for the course for him his entire life, similar to the "reality distortion field" so often attributed to Steve Jobs... If only you pretend hard enough and refuse to let thoughts of failure into your mind then it will come true... that is the basic essence of it. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by iNow

[swansont]

40 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

 The question is does Trump REALLY believe that there was massive voter fraud in GA?  If he really believes it then he may not be guilty of fraud. 

The problem is Trump committing election tampering, not fraud, and as he has no evidence of election fraud being committed, how can he legitimately believe it?

 

[J.C.MacSwell]

5 minutes ago, swansont said:

The problem is Trump committing election tampering, not fraud, and as he has no evidence of election fraud being committed, how can he legitimately believe it?

 

I'm sure he has some. Just no where near enough to change the outcome.

Where there's smoke...there's not necessarily full blown forest fires...

[iNow]

2 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I'm sure he has some. Just no where near enough to change the outcome.

Then he should share it with the courts, because he’s lost or had dismissed all of the 60-odd legal challenges he and his team have made 

[J.C.MacSwell]

38 minutes ago, iNow said:

Then he should share it with the courts, because he’s lost or had dismissed all of the 60-odd legal challenges he and his team have made 

It's fairly trivial to find anecdotal examples, real examples, of election fraud in any sizable  election. This would be for either side. The judges who, correctly, dismissed Trump's legal challenges would not have just taken that into consideration, they generally would have even pointed it out when providing their decision. 

Not that they shouldn't, or don't, follow up where the fraud occurs, and would go further if it had a reasonable chance of affecting the election.

Trump can huff and puff, but your judiciary is more solid brick than straw or sticks. (If he has any real proof of substantial fraud he has a chance for same reason...but it's extremely unlikely he has)

All that notwithstanding, there are serious concerns going forward with ensuring online voting remains secure.

 

 

Anyone else suspect that part of the GOP support for Trump's challenges is simply to keep his support for the Georgia Senate election and that part may diminish slowly afterward regardless of outcome?

[J.C.MacSwell]

But on topic  "I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.” is asking to counter election fraud with election fraud if his challenges are only due to suspect illegal Democrat votes, and don't include at least a claim of 11780 or more GOP votes being illegally discounted.

Even if he believes the "we won the state" part, I would think that would be illegal, but at the same time I wouldn't bet money that Trump would realize it.

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by J.C.MacSwell

[swansont]

6 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I'm sure he has some. Just no where near enough to change the outcome.

Where there's smoke...there's not necessarily full blown forest fires...

Yes, sorry, I thought the “on a scale that might affect the outcome” was understood, since that’s what Trump is alleging.

Several examples of republicans committing voter fraud have come to light. 

[iNow]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Several examples of republicans committing voter fraud have come to light. 

I read another today about a guy in Pennsylvania who tried voting 3x for Trump. Once in his own name, then also once each in the name of his dead mother and dead mother-in-law

1 hour ago, swansont said:

I thought the “on a scale that might affect the outcome” was understood, since that’s what Trump is alleging.

Exactly 

[MigL]

8 hours ago, swansont said:

The problem is Trump committing election tampering,

Isn't the act of a sitting President committing election tampering an impeachable offense ?
Congress should immediately convene to start the process.
Oh, wait … that's already happened !

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

I read another today about a guy in Pennsylvania who tried voting 3x for Trump. Once in his own name, then also once each in the name of his dead mother and dead mother-in-law

 

There he is, voting in honour of his recently deceased family members...and the Dems still complain about it.

Edited January 5, 2021 by J.C.MacSwell

[swansont]

11 hours ago, MigL said:

Isn't the act of a sitting President committing election tampering an impeachable offense ?
Congress should immediately convene to start the process.
Oh, wait … that's already happened !

Yes it is, and impeachment is one thing that can’t be pardoned by the president, so it seems to me that impeaching him for this and (other) federal crimes would be a good idea, just in case he tries to pardon himself.

But congress won’t do it at this point.

Election tampering is also a state crime, so Georgia can indict and seal the indictment for a couple weeks. And GA and NY officials can wrestle for being first in line to cuff him on the 20th, just after noon.

[J.C.MacSwell]

13 hours ago, swansont said:

Yes, sorry, I thought the “on a scale that might affect the outcome” was understood, since that’s what Trump is alleging.

 

Just stating it for a little clarity. But apparently not enough for everyone.

17 hours ago, iNow said:

19 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I'm sure he has some. Just no where near enough to change the outcome.

Then he should share it with the courts, because he’s lost or had dismissed all of the 60-odd legal challenges he and his team have made 

But I think he's got it now.

12 hours ago, iNow said:

13 hours ago, swansont said:

Yes, sorry, I thought the “on a scale that might affect the outcome” was understood, since that’s what Trump is alleging.

Exactly 

 

[dimreepr]

12 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

But I think he's got it now.

Imagine that...

[iNow]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Just stating it for a little clarity. But apparently not enough for everyone.

But I think he's got it now.

If the suggestion above is that I didn't previously understand these various nuances and was somehow blind to them until you highlighted them for me, then my suggestion is that you seriously reconsider this position

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

If the suggestion above is that I didn't previously understand these various nuances and was somehow blind to them until you highlighted them for me, then my suggestion is that you seriously reconsider this position

What might be the alternative? You quoted and wrote both, and they're in the order you did so.

Maybe you were simply being disingenuous and forgot what you had posted?

[Janus]

15 hours ago, swansont said:

Yes, sorry, I thought the “on a scale that might affect the outcome” was understood, since that’s what Trump is alleging.

 

While Trump and some of his legal team have alleged this in public,  they've stop short of this in the courtroom.  In one case, a Judge asked " Are you claiming voter fraud?", and the answer was "No.". To which the judge responded "Then why are we here?" 

The court cases revolved around things like "County A allowed some voters to fix technical errors in their ballots, while County B did not.  Thus we request that all the votes from County A be tossed out."  Or they would raise some other technical issue on how a particular state or county ran their election.

In the first type of case, the court generally ruled that the sought after remedy was too excessive compared to the alleged harm done.

In the second, the ruling was " Even if you were correct, it's too late. If you had problems with how they were going to run the election, this should have been brought to the court before the election.  The classic example is the first case that made it to the Supreme Court.  In it they claimed that the 2019 law in PA that expanded mail-in voting ( and which passed with bi-partisan support) was unconstitutional, and thus all the mail-in vote should be invalidated.   The lower rulings were "If you had problems with this law, you should have brought them to the court before the election and not waited until after."  ( This is the American football equivalent of challenging the call of a turnover after the team that benefited from the turnover marched down the field and scored a touchdown.  The time to make the challenge is before play is resumed, not several plays later.)

 

 

 

[iNow]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Maybe you were simply being disingenuous and forgot what you had posted?

???

You've lost me, friend. Not following you at all.

If you'd like to pursue this further, then please walk me through the point you're trying to make, but kindly please do so slowly and with small words as if I'm a kindergartener. 

[koti]

On 1/4/2021 at 6:09 PM, Airbrush said:

Audio: Trump berates Ga. secretary of state, urges him to ‘find’ votes - YouTube

"Thats a big risk to you and to Ryan your lawyer" 
"I'm notifying you, you're letting it happen"
I just wish they asked him what exactly is the risk, for whom and why. Trump carefuly weighs his words to avoid black mail accusations, why the lawyer didn't ask for details after being directly threatened by a pscyho rich guy who also happens to still be POTUS, is beyond me.

Edited January 6, 2021 by koti

[koti]

If I had to choose only one, this would be my favourate:
37:50 "Look, all I wanna do is this - I just want to find 11,780 votes which is one more what we have because we won the state and flipping the state is a great testiment to our country cause, you know."

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, koti said:

"Thats a big risk to you and to Ryan your lawyer" 
"I'm notifying you, you're letting it happen"
I just wish they asked him what exactly is the risk, for whom and why. Trump carefuly weighs his words to avoid black mail accusations, why the lawyer didn't ask for details after being directly threatened by a pscyho rich guy who also happens to still be POTUS, is beyond me.

Well, technically they are playing for the same team. They are only interested to cover their own arse, but have not intention to potentially harm another player on the same team.

[StringJunky]

Looks like the Dems have the Senate. .. just. 

[Airbrush]

12 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Looks like the Dems have the Senate. .. just. 

Good now the House and Senate can impeach and convict him for his new "perfect" phone call. They can impeach him in their leisure after Jan. 20th, so he can never run for office again.  Either that, or take the 25th amendment.  Pence, not Trump, called for the national guard.  Pence spoiled Trump's Capitol block party.

Maybe he can then also be charged with criminally negligent manslaughter.  Trump caused wide-spread indifference to the Coronavirus which resulted in hundreds of thousands of needless deaths.  What else can Trump be charged with?  Oh yeah, he is also "individual #1" in that other crime.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Airbrush

[CharonY]

11 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Looks like the Dems have the Senate. .. just. 

The only thing it really means is that the GOP cannot just block everything without consideration. The issue with the Dems is that at least in the past they did not vote en bloc as the GOP did (see the Obama years). Perhaps things are shifting, though during the impeachment proceedigns several House Dems voted against or abstained.