Immigration

[iNow]

We tend to align in these topics. I’m just trying to present the other sides position fairly 

[Phi for All]

30 minutes ago, iNow said:

We tend to align in these topics. I’m just trying to present the other sides position fairly 

I understand. I'm perhaps overly sensitive to the concept of working against one's best interests lately. People I know have been duped since Reagan into thinking taxpayer help for the billionaires will help the working and middle classes. None of them understand why I think they're patsies to believe the wealthy need so much help.

[CharonY]

I think it is important to acknowledge at some point that immigration politics has little to do with worker rights per se. It has more to do to provide a scapegoat for economical woes. Xenophobic tactics have been a time-proven tactic to do just that an by now we have plenty of evidence that it has been a driving factors within the right populist movements (which does include the current GOP).

On the scientific side of things, several decade of research in multiple industrialized countries  have failed to find consistent evidence of immigrants depressing wages on native (well, not native, native, but you know...) workers. At best, some studies found that new immigrant workers might  depress wages of slightly earlier, but uneducated immigrant workers. There are sorting effects at play that, at times can locally decrease but also increase wages, so it is slightly tricky. Yet the simple formula more immigrants = lower wages is in its essence wrong or at least incomplete.

[StringJunky]

25 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I understand. I'm perhaps overly sensitive to the concept of working against one's best interests lately. People I know have been duped since Reagan into thinking taxpayer help for the billionaires will help the working and middle classes. None of them understand why I think they're patsies to believe the wealthy need so much help.

"Trickle-down economics" should be consigned to the Reagan-Thatcher era... and left there. Billionaires didn't get rich by being generous and fair.

Edited January 13, 2021 by StringJunky

[CharonY]

48 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

"Trickle-down economics" should be consigned to the Reagan-Thatcher era... and left there. Billionaires didn't get rich by being generous and fair.

Yes and I think it is one of the few things were empirical studies have consistently shown that trickle down just does not happen. I mean, it is one of those things folks might have really believed in, it has been tried to various degrees for a few decades and the verdict is pretty clear at this point. 

[StringJunky]

5 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Yes and I think it is one of the few things were empirical studies have consistently shown that trickle down just does not happen. I mean, it is one of those things folks might have really believed in, it has been tried to various degrees for a few decades and the verdict is pretty clear at this point. 

Let's face it, they don't  want to pay taxes;  witness the myriad , labrynthine shell companies on offshore 'tax-friendly' islands that rich individuals and companies put together.

[CharonY]

33 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Let's face it, they don't  want to pay taxes;  witness the myriad , labrynthine shell companies on offshore 'tax-friendly' islands that rich individuals and companies put together.

True enough. On top they obviously have massive influence over lawmakers, so they can make things easier for them either way. 

[swansont]

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Moderator Note

Discussion of minimum wage and basic universal income has been split

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/124176-minimum-wagebui-split-from-immigration/