Ammonium Chloride

[Idiotcanadian]

Hi there,

hope this is the right thread to post. I’ve started to craft with an ammonium chloride, water and thicken up solution. I apply it to wood and use a heat gun to burn my designs. I was wondering if putting the wood in the oven at 350 degrees would have the same effect and be safe? What about using a heat press would that be safe?

thanks for your help :)

[chenbeier]

Ammoniumchloride decompose under heat and smoke containing HCl and NH3  will be developed. In a closed oven you will find ammoniumchloride at the walls and window of it.

Maybe you describe your craft work.

[John Cuthber]

I presume it's this sort of thing. (The commentary is inaccurate, it' s the HCl that chars the wood rather than the ammonia.)
It would probably work in an oven but I don't know if "350 degrees" wold be hot enough. Units are important.
There's a risk that the HCl fumes would corrode the oven too.
The HCl is very corrosive towards metals (and not very good for people either).

 

 

[studiot]

25 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

I presume it's this sort of thing. (The commentary is inaccurate, it' s the HCl that chars the wood rather than the ammonia.)
It would probably work in an oven but I don't know if "350 degrees" wold be hot enough. Units are important.
There's a risk that the HCl fumes would corrode the oven too.
The HCl is very corrosive towards metals (and not very good for people either).

 

 

Not convinced, about the HCL, I thought that bleached wood  ?

But certainly it is a dangerous substance to be treated with respect.

Ammonia darkening of wood is a well recognised process on the other hand.

You can see this just by using ordinary household ammonia and scrubbing a wooden floor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_fuming

 

http://www.nzdl.org/gsdlmod?e=d-00000-00---off-0cdl--00-0----0-10-0---0---0direct-10---4-------0-1l--11-en-50---20-about---00-0-1-00-0--4----0-0-11-10-0utfZz-8-10&cl=CL2.19&d=HASH0151caf30a244bb2ecd8f91b.5.4&gt=1

11 hours ago, Idiotcanadian said:

hope this is the right thread to post. I’ve started to craft with an ammonium chloride, water and thicken up solution

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by studiot

[John Cuthber]

Acids are well known for catalysing the charring of carbohydrates.
https://www.sciencekids.co.nz/experiments/invisibleink.html

 

On 2/12/2021 at 11:12 AM, studiot said:

Ammonia darkening of wood is a well recognised process on the other hand.

And it's a pH effect more than anything else. As you say

 

On 2/12/2021 at 11:12 AM, studiot said:

You can see this just by using ordinary household ammonia and scrubbing a wooden floor.

there's no need for a heat gun

[studiot]

19 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Acids are well known for catalysing the charring of carbohydrates.
https://www.sciencekids.co.nz/experiments/invisibleink.html

And yet here is an extract from my second link; my emboldening.

Quote

Hydrochloric acid (HCl):

 

Chemically pure hydrochloric acid (caustic and toxic) is a good neutralizing agent for wood surfaces. It is used to brighten up staining agents and to bleach wood.

 

[John Cuthber]

1 minute ago, studiot said:

And yet here is an extract from my second link; my emboldening.

 

You seem strangely determined to overlook the heat gun which is odd because the importance of heating is the point of the OP's question.
You can demonstrate the effect of pH on the colour of tannins by making lemon tea or, less drinkably, by adding ammonia to tea.

[studiot]

 

20 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

You seem strangely determined to overlook the heat gun

Once again a personal attack.

You have no idea what my reasons were for the points I made, so you have no justification whatsoever for choosing to adopt a personal one.

I said I was unconvinced by your post.

So I note that you 'overlooked or dismissed' the ammonia entirely!

 

The best interpretation I can think off is that it was unclear.

I could also take your statement as printed to be untrue as it could be read to mean that you attribute the darkening entirely to the HCL.

 

So I will leave it to you to develop a proper technical response the the less technical OP, leaving me out of it please.

[John Cuthber]

2 hours ago, studiot said:

Once again a personal attack.

Or an observation.

[MigL]

Can't you Brits just get along ?
You're becoming more and more like Americans ever day 😄 .

[IvoryEbony]

3 hours ago, MigL said:

Can't you Brits just get along ?
You're becoming more and more like Americans ever day 😄 .

I get along fine with everyone who maintains respect. But then again being born in this shithole doesn't make me a word "American" you are how you conduct yourself and so is your country, you are the decisions you make which are the result of the sum of your experiences and genetic utilities etc

But obviously my country is not how I conduct myself

[Asim Gabol]

I think smoke will be produced HCl and Ammonia gas will fill your drying oven.