if (H2O)ice is cold enough would the ice melt

[sunofawrx]

my theroy behind this is that oxygen and hydrogen if cold enough will liquify,correct, so whos sayin that if u get ice cold enough say {50.35K -222.65°C -368.77°F} wouldd the oxygen particles liqufiy leaving a hydrogen shell or what.

this is the only serious whole in my theroy.

[ydoaPs]

when they bond, the molecules had different properties of H or O by themselves.

[the tree]

The colder it is, the less energy there is to allow for bonds to break or for new ones to form.

[ydoaPs]

my theroy behind this is that oxygen and hydrogen if cold enough will liquify' date='correct, so whos sayin that if u get ice cold enough say {50.35K -222.65°C -368.77°F} wouldd the oxygen particles liqufiy leaving a hydrogen shell or what.

this is the only serious whole in my theroy.[/quote']

normally, i would yell about you calling it a theory, but this is one of the few theories we get around here. it makes a prediction and is testible. it is wrong, but it is a theory. most of the "theories" aren't really theories. they are usually really bad speculation.

[insane_alien]

at least he isn't considering temperatures below 0K which is usually brought up in things like this.

[sunofawrx]

well it waz worth a thought, and if i understand the treethe colder somthing gets the stronger it gets? the tree The colder it is, the less energy there is to allow for bonds to break or for new ones to form. but does this just apply to moloculer and/or atomic structure? because i know as a fact that anything ,such as a plant, will become very brittle when u expose it to extrem cold (i.e.liquid nitorogen 63.14K -209.86°C -345.75°F)pleaz explain

[raivo]

All depends of structure. If it is just mixture of substances then cold may help to separate them. Water is not just mixture - new particles are formed and those need lot of energy to decompose. You can still decompose water into H2 and O2 by strong heating (because heating can supply that energy) but not by freezing.

[insane_alien]

also as things become more rigid the tend to get more brittle while getting stronger.

i've seen something on T.V. where they puta huge weight on some ice cooled by LN2 more than the block of ice at -10 degrees could stand. then when they took the weight of and hit it lightly with a hammer thing shattered into tiny peices. they also done it with a fresh block of ice in LN2 that didn't get any weight put on it.

[the tree]

but does this just apply to moloculer and/or atomic structure? because i know as a fact that anything ,such as a plant, will become very brittle when u expose it to extrem cold.

It's pretty much only molecular structure I think. Basically for any chemical change you need energy.

also as things become more rigid the tend to get more brittle while getting stronger.

Urm no. Brittle and strong are oposites.

When something is harder then it'll be more brittle. When something is strong, it'll be softer*. Example: slate, really hard and nearly impossible to crush but can be snapped with your fingers.

 

*in general, not always

[Daecon]

When something is strong' date=' it'll be softer*.[/quote']

Like toilet paper.

[sunofawrx]

oh kay i think i get the gist if what u ppl are saying. but the tree how long is this pice of slate?(i know this is more phisics than chemistry)be cause if its like 1/2 an inch long ure not gonna snap it eaily with ur fingers

[rakuenso]

here's another question, is it possible to pressurize ice and increasing it's temperature to the point where it could be hot to touch? XD

[ElijahJones]

No if you pressurize ice it will fracture at some point it is a lattice. Ice becomes brittle at very low temperatures also (crunchy snow). But then it does have some viscosity less than one (glaciers flow). I would not bet against some odd things happening with ice that gets really cold like 5 K or so. Ice will melt under pressure, just applying the pressure causes it to warm and melt somewhat. Water is incompressible but ice is not.

 

Here is a thought experiment.

 

Take a sphere of perfect ice one foot in diameter. Put it into a spherical vice that applies pressure evenly. Now increase the pressure. What do you think happens?

 

The thing to ask yourself is this. Is there an energy state that the volume of ice can move to that helps to reduce the pressure. The system wants to ease the pressure. Here is the tricky part, I see two possible states.

 

1) A crushed ice cube may actually take up less volume under pressure than an intact one, it has to do with the lattice structure. So if fracturing can produce a state where the volume of ice is minimized then fracturing may occur.

 

2) If however this is not the case, it may still fracture but the pressure gradient will produce heat which initially reduces the volume. Water at 32 is more dense than ice, so after the phase change the pressure is reduced. Can there be such a thing as super cooled water?

 

If I were building an experiment I would expect to find fracturing (mostly because real ice is not perfect and not spherically symmetrical) and some amount of melting. The specific amount will be hard to get at but it will be a change that minimizes the forces that are acting. The system will find its lowest energy state. This may not be a static state it may begin to produce flows of energy (heat and kinetic energy) that are cyclic or even chaotic. Perhaps a thin sheet of water will cover the sphere and the sphere will rotate slightly before coming to rest.

 

Is'nt physics great!

[insane_alien]

oops i think i got some words mixed up. i knew what i meant in my head anyway.

[Daecon]

Would the sphere of ice begin to melt under pressure, from the outside edge inwards or from the middle outwards?

 

Or would it just be a uniform distribution of state change?

[rthmjohn]

hmmm, pretty sure hydrogen, oxygen, and water all have different properties...