Curious layman Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Do you think it will happen? Is Biden weak, do you think the Democrats need to be more aggressive? Been inspired by this: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/joe-biden-says-his-hands-are-tied-on-a-2415-minimum-wage-thats-not-true/ar-BB1e6X8x?ocid=BingNews Quote When a Republican is president, Democratic politicians, pundits and activists will tell you that the presidency is an all-powerful office that can do anything it wants. When a Democrat is president, these same politicians, pundits and activists will tell you that the presidency has no power to do anything. In fact, they will tell you a Democratic president cannot even use the bully pulpit and other forms of pressure to try to shift the votes of senators in his own party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 14 minutes ago, Curious layman said: Do you think it will happen? Yes, but likely separate from covid relief 15 minutes ago, Curious layman said: Is Biden weak, No, there is great strength in him, but he’s neither emperor nor magician. 16 minutes ago, Curious layman said: do you think the Democrats need to be more aggressive? Yes, and many are, but several come from states that are extremely red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 19 hours ago, iNow said: Yes, but likely separate from covid relief I don't like that either ( Canadian Governments do it quite often also ). If the $15 min wage is a good idea, it will stand, and pass, on its own merits. Why attempt to bundle it in with the Covid relief package ? It's one of the games Governments play, if they want to 'sneak' something in that has questionable support, they bundle it with something that everyone wants. If you then object to the questionable program, they can claim you don't support the popular program, and shame you into voting for the whole package, or make you out to be the bad guy. I still have 'questions' regarding the $15 min wage. And I'm not convinced a countrywide min will be equitable. While $15/hr is a very good wage in some of the economically depressed Southern States, it is probably still below the poverty line in places like New Jersy, Massachusetts or California. How is that equitable ? Someone in West Virginia can buy a house on $15/hr, while you are living in a cardboard box with that same wage in Hawaii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MigL said: If the $15 min wage is a good idea, it will stand, and pass, on its own merits. Comments like these suggest you haven’t been paying attention to the dysfunction of the US Congress these last several years 7 minutes ago, MigL said: Why attempt to bundle it in with the Covid relief package ? It’s more than covid relief. It’s economic stimulus. 7 minutes ago, MigL said: How is that equitable ? If equity were the benchmark, we’d be talking about far more than the minimum wage. Inequality has become far worse this last year. Last year alone, people who were already billionaires added a total of a trillion more dollars to their net worths Edited March 2, 2021 by iNow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Quote Biden and the $15 minimum wage Grow up my child, grow up.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTony Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) I believe that more than 85% of American workers who earn minimum wage actually earn over $11 an hour due to different state wage rates. I'm just offering information I'm not suggesting $11 is a reasonable rate with today's food and shelter prices. Also any Federal increases to the minimum wage would be incremental taking perhaps a number of years to reach $15. Wikipedia/Minimum Wage in the USA Edited March 20, 2021 by JayTony added ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 34 minutes ago, JayTony said: I believe that more than 85% of American workers who earn minimum wage actually earn over $11 an hour Nobody here gives a shit what you believe, Jay Tony. This is a topic where facts both exist and matter. https://www.statista.com/topics/5920/minimum-wage-in-the-united-states/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/03/03/15-minimum-wage-black-hispanic-women/ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurieAG Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wage-15-dollars-amendment-fails-covid-relief-bill/ Minimum-wage workers won't see a raise as part of federal coronavirus relief efforts, as moderate Democrats joined all Republicans to shoot down Senator Bernie Sanders' amendment to include increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour in the Senate COVID relief package. The 42-58 vote laid out a deep divide within the Democratic caucus on the issue, raising questions on its path forward — but Democratic lawmakers who favor the move say the fight is far from over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C.MacSwell Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 3 hours ago, iNow said: How is it that 1.21 million Americans are able to work for below the Federal minimum, and how will more than doubling it help them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious layman Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 24 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said: How is it that 1.21 million Americans are able to work for below the Federal minimum As someone who earns about $15 an hour, I can tell you it's with great difficulty. For an adult working a 40+ hour week, $11 an hour ain't worth shit. Earning less than that is just demeaning. How are you supposed to improve your situation if you don't have money to spare? I think America needs to start adding extra import taxes to companies that don't pay their workers fair wages or pensions on top of the minimum wage increase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C.MacSwell Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Curious layman said: As someone who earns about $15 an hour, I can tell you it's with great difficulty. For an adult working a 40+ hour week, $11 an hour ain't worth shit. Earning less than that is just demeaning. How are you supposed to improve your situation if you don't have money to spare? I think America needs to start adding extra import taxes to companies that don't pay their workers fair wages or pensions on top of the minimum wage increase. I'm not asking how they manage at under the U.S. Federal minimum (currently 7.25/hr). I'm asking how it can be done, somewhat rhetorically but not completely (using legal exceptions, or illegally "under the table"...any other way?), and more specifically how will raising it to 15/hr make a difference for this group. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious layman Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 That's a good question, thank you for explaining that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 5 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said: How is it that 1.21 million Americans are able to work for below the Federal minimum, and how will more than doubling it help them? It’s written into current law for some certain categories of workers, and new laws raising the current minimum wage to $15/hr would in parallel raise this subminimum wage floor, as well. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/special-employment Quote Subminimum Wage Provisions The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) provides for the employment of certain individuals at wage rates below the statutory minimum. Such individuals include student-learners (vocational education students), as well as full-time students employed in retail or service establishments, agriculture, or institutions of higher education. Also included are individuals whose earning or productive capacities are impaired by a physical or mental disability, including those related to age or injury, for the work to be performed. Employment at less than the minimum wage is authorized to prevent curtailment of opportunities for employment. EDIT: There will also always be those employers who are simply breaking the law and just paying their workers too little... those who for whatever reason feel immune from legal action... maybe due to the class of their workers or because of friendly connections with the local judge, for example... but those are sure to be marginal at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayTony Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, iNow said: Nobody here gives a shit what you believe, Jay Tony. This is a topic where facts both exist and matter. https://www.statista.com/topics/5920/minimum-wage-in-the-united-states/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/03/03/15-minimum-wage-black-hispanic-women/ INOW, did you read any thing I wrote? I'm sorry if you are offended. However, insulting me won't help under paid workers. You're not giving a bleep about my post even won points. That is interesting. Anyone interested can easily 'Wiki' my post at Minimum Wage in the United States. Edited March 21, 2021 by JayTony Request added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, JayTony said: I'm sorry if you are offended. However, insulting me won't help under paid workers. The only thing that offends me is nonapology apologies like this and I didn’t insult you. Feel free to reread what I actually typed. You even quoted it. Your beliefs are irrelevant. 3 hours ago, JayTony said: You're not giving a bleep about my post even won points. That is interesting. Correct, because I shared actual facts and didn’t make unsupported unevidenced comments based solely on my beliefs. 3 hours ago, JayTony said: Anyone interested can easily 'Wiki' my post at Minimum Wage in the United States. Two points: 1) The onus is on you to support your own assertions, not on readers to chase down whether or not what you “believe” is valid, based in reality, or fictional horseshit pulled out of your anus. 2) I went ahead and DID “wiki” your post at Minimum Wage in the US and nowhere does it support your claim that “more than 85% of American workers who earn minimum wage actually earn over $11 an hour.” What it DOES say is that the effective AVERAGE minimum wage across the US is over $11/hr. If you don’t wish to be corrected, then consider not saying things which are demonstrably false. If you stand by the claims you’re making, then point to a serious source which backs them up. If you wish to be taken seriously, consider also not throwing tantrums and claiming you’re being attacked when you do get corrected. Edited March 21, 2021 by iNow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 I notice that in the table you provided, INow, 55.3 % of workers in the Food Preparation and Serving Related industries are 'allowed' to be paid less than minimum wage, with the intent that they make up the rest n tips. This is a large chunk of the workforce ( and consisting mostly of women trying to make ends meet ), and I'm all for eliminating this 'loophole'. ( call me Mr Pink; referencing Reservoir Dogs ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Worlds smallest violin playing for all the waitresses, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C.MacSwell Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 9 hours ago, iNow said: The only thing that offends me is nonapology apologies like this and I didn’t insult you. Feel free to reread what I actually typed. You even quoted it. Your beliefs are irrelevant. Correct, because I shared actual facts and didn’t make unsupported unevidenced comments based solely on my beliefs. Two points: 1) The onus is on you to support your own assertions, not on readers to chase down whether or not what you “believe” is valid, based in reality, or fictional horseshit pulled out of your anus. 2) I went ahead and DID “wiki” your post at Minimum Wage in the US and nowhere does it support your claim that “more than 85% of American workers who earn minimum wage actually earn over $11 an hour.” What it DOES say is that the effective AVERAGE minimum wage across the US is over $11/hr. If you don’t wish to be corrected, then consider not saying things which are demonstrably false. If you stand by the claims you’re making, then point to a serious source which backs them up. If you wish to be taken seriously, consider also not throwing tantrums and claiming you’re being attacked when you do get corrected. INow. We all interpret the data and none of us gets it right 100% of the time. If you held back on the expletives directed at Jay Tony maybe he would be a little less defensive. His "tantrum" seemed rather polite in comparison IMO, regardless of how you would like him to present his facts or views. For a new member, I think he hasn't handled it to badly. Might be overpriced, but that's my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Helping other posters be less defensive is not my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 We have had numerous threads where the consensus ( including yours ) was that offence is in the 'eye of the beholder'. What you intended has little to do with the perception of a new, impressionable member. Maybe you could lighten up a bit. ( save the irreverent attitude for those of us who can 'hit' back 😎 ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 2 hours ago, MigL said: Maybe you could lighten up a bit. So now you’re commenting on my weight? FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 No, I'm not. According to that old adage, I shouldn't throw any stones, as I live in a glass house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) On 3/20/2021 at 7:03 PM, JayTony said: INOW, did you read any thing I wrote? I did, yes and I found it lacking. Apparently though (according to the exchanges above) I was too harsh on you and you probably felt like you’d been bitten, so please try harder next time so I don’t have to be so harsh. Other than telling me that I can go “wiki” the claims you made (which I also did, btw), do you have any further info or links I can read which directly support your claim about more than 85% of MW workers making above $11/hr? (because the wiki you told me to go google sure didn’t) Edited March 22, 2021 by iNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 On 3/20/2021 at 11:49 PM, MigL said: I notice that in the table you provided, INow, 55.3 % of workers in the Food Preparation and Serving Related industries are 'allowed' to be paid less than minimum wage, with the intent that they make up the rest n tips. This is a large chunk of the workforce ( and consisting mostly of women trying to make ends meet ), and I'm all for eliminating this 'loophole'. ( call me Mr Pink; referencing Reservoir Dogs ) If we eliminate that exception, we can certainly adopt his "I only tip for exceptional service" attitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 32 minutes ago, swansont said: If we eliminate that exception, we can certainly adopt his "I only tip for exceptional service" attitude Indeed, we're in a position that few mice achieve, industrious or otherwise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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