Question light and UV and cardboard box

[swansont]

10 minutes ago, gamer87 said:

I was confused because some people where I live said that UV and light penetrated the cardboard but you say that then I don't trust you who are experts

You can test this yourself for visible light. Place the box between you and a bright light, so the bottom of the box blocks the light; top open. Can you see the light? If it was a piece of paper (i.e. thin) you could probably see a brighter area, as some light makes it through. For thicker paper (like construction paper) or cardboard, you won’t.

 

[StringJunky]

36 minutes ago, studiot said:

That might be a good measure for a single ageing process

I remember seeing a Building Research project that had been going on for about 30 years where they were testing drainpipes by constantly trickling dilute vinegar over them.

But it has already been noted here that there are multiple ageing processes in CDs.

One of which is not susceptible to such a speed up technique.

This is what partly killed a good friend of mine at University.

That is all plastics are subject to creep.

This is true, I was just thinking of uv photon exposure. There is off-gassing as well from the media and container.  Paper/cardboard  should be archival quality, with no off-gassing, as well.

[Toby Jug]

3 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Verbatim UltraLife 4.7GB 8x Gold Archival Grade DVD-R claim 100 year life.

Hi everyone.  

String-Junky, you're absolutely right about it being just a CLAIM. 

Have you seen the warranty information on Verbatim's website for the product?   I've copied-and-pasted some of it.  It's the funniest thing I've seen all day.

Verbatim Americas, LLC warrants this product to be free from defects in material and workmanship. If this product is found to be defective, it will be replaced at no cost to you. You may return it with your original cash register receipt to the place of purchase or contact Verbatim. In the U.S. and Canada, call 800-538-8589. Product replacement is your sole remedy under this warranty, and this warranty does not apply to normal wear or to damage resulting from abnormal use, misuse, abuse, neglect or accident, or to any incompatibility or poor performance due to the specific computer software or hardware used.  VERBATIM WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR DATA LOSS OR ANY INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR SPECIAL......

 

   So, to para-phrase this -  if the disc failed in less than 100 years, you COULD be given a new BLANK disc.

[StringJunky]

21 minutes ago, Toby Jug said:

Hi everyone.  

String-Junky, you're absolutely right about it being just a CLAIM. 

Have you seen the warranty information on Verbatim's website for the product?   I've copied-and-pasted some of it.  It's the funniest thing I've seen all day.

Verbatim Americas, LLC warrants this product to be free from defects in material and workmanship. If this product is found to be defective, it will be replaced at no cost to you. You may return it with your original cash register receipt to the place of purchase or contact Verbatim. In the U.S. and Canada, call 800-538-8589. Product replacement is your sole remedy under this warranty, and this warranty does not apply to normal wear or to damage resulting from abnormal use, misuse, abuse, neglect or accident, or to any incompatibility or poor performance due to the specific computer software or hardware used.  VERBATIM WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR DATA LOSS OR ANY INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR SPECIAL......

 

   So, to para-phrase this -  if the disc failed in less than 100 years, you COULD be given a new BLANK disc.

Ha! They aren't putting their money where their mouth is.  I think for reliable archiving, discs need to be physically etched rather than alteration of a dye. as are commercially-printed disks, which I think have the data pressed into foil in a series of pits.

Edited March 3, 2021 by StringJunky

[gamer87]

In your opinion, is the cardboard in these boxes shown in the photos good or bad to protect the interior from light and UV?

[John Cuthber]

3 hours ago, gamer87 said:

In your opinion, is the cardboard in these boxes shown in the photos good or bad to protect the interior from light and UV?

Good.

 

7 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Accelerated aging tests. I know what you are going to say next. No they don't have a Tardis. Material degradation is a function of exposure to the source. So, if you double the intensity you halve the time to reach the same state of degradation. I learnt this from reading about film and photo paper stability when silver photography was the norm.

And at a hundred times the intensity... the plastic melts- which doesn't happen  with sunlight, no matter how long you leave it.
Accelerated aging tests (often relying on Arrhenius plots) are great,  but not infallible.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_plot

[MigL]

I still have CD-Rs from the early 90s that I can read. And I've never used DVD-Ram or Rewritables.
Maybe if my business was data storage I would make multiple copies every few years, but some of the programs and data don't even run on current computers/programs/OSs.
Which reminds me,other than photos ( although why would I keep photos from my first digital camera at 1024 x 768 resolution ), nobody needs data from 30 years ago; I should 'accelerate' their destruction, and trash them.

[StringJunky]

7 hours ago, MigL said:

I still have CD-Rs from the early 90s that I can read. And I've never used DVD-Ram or Rewritables.
Maybe if my business was data storage I would make multiple copies every few years, but some of the programs and data don't even run on current computers/programs/OSs.
Which reminds me,other than photos ( although why would I keep photos from my first digital camera at 1024 x 768 resolution ), nobody needs data from 30 years ago; I should 'accelerate' their destruction, and trash them.

I think pro photographers shoot in raw now for future proofing and sound is done in 1-bit.

[Sensei]

On 3/2/2021 at 9:41 PM, Toby Jug said:

Late editing:  The paper wasn't even that "special", it was just paper.  It's just that their biggest problem was some contamination in that paper.  Most paper mills produced paper with trace amounts of radioactive elements and that would obviously damage the film.

Paper is made of wood. Freshly cut tree contains trace amount of radioactive isotope of Carbon C-14 with half life ~ 5730 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14

On 3/2/2021 at 10:47 PM, gamer87 said:

i don't have aluminum to wrap the cardboard box

There is aluminum foil in each kitchen. It is used to cover cakes in the oven. You can buy it at almost any grocery store around the corner.

[John Cuthber]

10 hours ago, MigL said:

nobody needs data from 30 years ago; I should 'accelerate' their destruction, and trash them.

Two points.
I suggest that you look at them first. and
re. "nobody needs data from 30 years ago", ask an historian.

[Sensei]

@MigL You can't /shouldn't trash old CDs, DVDs, HDDs, pendrives, computers, laptops, tablets, smartphones, anything with your personal data. Especially if they were damaged. E.g. many people thoughtlessly throw away a smartphone with a cracked screen. If the device will be intercepted by a competent person such  as a hacker, he/she will fix it and get the all data from it. Possible consequences are stolen identity, yours, a family member or other person (do you have contacts in smartphone with phone numbers and emails? content of emails with long discussion about private subjects). If you can't remove data storage from a device e.g. smartphone or table, you shouldn't use electronic repair service either if you can't see entire process personally. If a hacker works in a repair service, they will get your personal data. You can get an unwanted unauthorised loan, interception of bank accounts, and similar accidents..

Edited March 4, 2021 by Sensei

[MigL]

7 hours ago, StringJunky said:

I think pro photographers shoot in raw now for future proofing

Raw just future proofs your image format; if your CCD or CMOS sensor is only capable of 1 Mpixel resolution ( 30 yrs ago ) shooting in Raw will not allow enlargement beyond 3 x 5 inch, while 10-24 Mpixel ( current sensors )will easily allow 14 x 20 inch.

 

3 hours ago, Sensei said:

If a hacker works in a repair service, they will get your personal data.

I don't do my banking electronically.
And incidentally, when you do go to the bank, the teller punches one key, and all your personal information is available to her/him.
Why do you trust your bank teller but not your repair person ?
( are you saying all people with some computer knowledge are inherently evil ? 😁 )

[iNow]

31 minutes ago, MigL said:

Why do you trust your bank teller but not your repair person ?

Different laws and oversight mechanisms apply. Not a perfect system, but the bank teller really is a more secure individual with whom to interact on these topics.

On another note, how are we now 3 pages into a thread talking about protecting the future equivalent of a VHS or Betamax tape?

[studiot]

15 minutes ago, iNow said:

On another note, how are we now 3 pages into a thread talking about protecting the future equivalent of a VHS or Betamax tape?

I, for one, have plenty of totally irreplaceable video tapes and have learned the hard way that old photographs and cine films fade, old video develops droputs and eventually fails..........

That is one reason Hollywood is investing $billions in restoration techniques for stuff they did not save at the time.

[iNow]

2 minutes ago, studiot said:

I, for one, have plenty of totally irreplaceable video tapes and have learned the hard way that old photographs and cine films fade, old video develops droputs and eventually fails.........

Even so... a reply of "put it in a box with extra shielding from aluminum foil if you're super uptight about it and so inclined" should've sufficed to answer the question. 

[studiot]

Just now, iNow said:

Even so... a reply of "put it in a box with extra shielding from aluminum foil if you're super uptight about it and so inclined" should've sufficed to answer the question. 

The OP has had the benefit of this and similar and better advice but is obviouly a worrier.

Perhaps he / she has family video on those DVDs.

Irreplaceable as I said.

[gamer87]

a teacher told me that UV is not a high penetration wave, is that true? to pass through materials and cardboard it needs to be a high frequency wave

[swansont]

Or low frequency.

 

[Toby Jug]

8 hours ago, Sensei said:

Paper is made of wood. Freshly cut tree contains trace amount of radioactive isotope of Carbon C-14 with half life ~ 5730 years.

Hi Sensei (and others).   Hope you are well.

Kodak really were the experts in protecting sensitive equipment (like film) from radiation.  You're absolutely correct about naturally occurring radioisopes.  They could cope with most naturally occurring radioisotopes (and also the brief use of Radium to make fluorescent paint) and this is why they were quite selective about where their paper and similar packaging materials came from.  They were less able to cope with fall-out from nuclear testing.  But throughout all of this, Ultraviolet penetration through cardboard and paper wasn't a problem - it didn't penetrate their cardboard and strawboard packaging material.

Here's a short and interesting video (but I warn you it is a bit depressing).