Axion Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 must admit I am not scientist nor insightful on the matter, so see me as wondering guest! hearing about fears that gene (dna crispr) editing is risk still without known consequences, few questions pops to mind 1. how ethical is imposing health-passports? 2. who is to blame if something went out of control govs or vac'comps? 3. is it legal eg. for hcv patients to be employment undesirable if they are not vaccinated, as is now fearmongered about the covid-19 trends? 4. are there any https://defendingthetruth.com/threads/alkaline-lifestyle-vs-mrna-vaccines.127393/post-1646729 all this is even more questionable as economic vaccine hype, if we know how the science community reacted to the gene splicing for hiv babys in China, when not just as unethical momentum was seen that experiment, but also was condemned by the larger science community, yet now with the instant introduction of mRNA vaccines we dont hear for such reaction, for the controversial chinese experiment You can here in the video of the next post https://defendingthetruth.com/threads/technocracy-and-transhumanism.127600/post-1651868 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Jiankui_affair#Reactions_and_aftermath https://globalbiodefense.com/2018/07/16/genome-damage-from-crispr-cas9-gene-editing-higher-than-thought/ http://web.archive.org/web/20171117023904/https://www.wired.com/story/this-gene-editing-tech-might-be-too-dangerous-to-unleash/
CharonY Posted March 6, 2021 Posted March 6, 2021 For starters, an mRNA vaccine has no relation with CRISPR/CAS gene editing strategies. The former is a simple encapsulated mRNA which neither replicates nor can it be integrated into the genome. In fact, one of the main challenges of developing a vaccine was to keep the mRNA stable enough. So, considering that the vaccine has no relationship with the rest of your argument, is there something else you might want to discuss?
Axion Posted March 7, 2021 Author Posted March 7, 2021 18 hours ago, CharonY said: So, considering that the vaccine has no relationship with the rest of your argument, is there something else you might want to discuss? I proposed the crispr splicing as loudly expressed risk by the scientific community earlier, primary so I can point that these mRNA vaccines are technology directly linked to the gmo industry i.e. still in eU "mRNA-based therapeutics are categorized as gene therapy" [1] and altho its not the the same dna editing technique still is cell editing i.e. if DNA is our Operating System then RNA is execution software that engages Chromosomes to print enzymes, so defacto is not crispr modification of the OS but indeed is new crispr software introduction in the system, this means also editing is present, I'll simplify the editing is not on the root but on the stem of the plant ... I am just not sure whether after that the mRNA information is embedded and stay in the body through the memory cells [2][2] many scientists say no that is impossible, but the notion that the memory remains the same is also discutable if as bioresonance we know that information in the cells is triggered even by light [2] what about reprogrammed rna!? on one hand this is promising cure for many horrible diseases, but on other as mRNA vaccines now how quick are introduced without enough safety assurance about any long term effects is more than problem, almost as mass invivo experiment for what we should praise BillG and darpa [1][1] for pushing this new antiviral technology to its limits quickly altho as I learnt all the processes in the cell are not truly known but like this with mass vaccination there will be big control group pool for analyzing ... but when safety is in question who can tell for sure in the way how the cov-sars-2 vaccine is quickly tested that this mRNA editing will not fireback to the nucleus too as guessed in the previous 2nd footnotes, or as intentional programed string in the tail of the modified rna [2][2] what is potential risk just alone as new tech simply because the companies are not reveling all the mechanisms that goes in these mRNA vaccines and hold it as business patent [3][3] but then who can tell for sure what is in that hidden sequence of patent information!? and aside all fears from the new tech, obviously all this is extra risky because there is no liability neither for the companies nor for the governments i.e. they are exempt of any guilt and responsibility, so if things go bad You can just indict and charge only youself in front of your mirror [4] and why, because the economy needs it, hm as if all this was tempered in time as experimental new technology so politicians would not obstruct quickly introduction of mRNA vaccination!? all this what-if corporate-scientific risks are more or less important, but my prime concern here in this thread is about the mRNA risks per'se, lets say I think they are real issue that is almost easily overlooked like This or That ... I can accept that terminally ill or chronically ill people need to be treated with these experimental vaccines, but to cover all population, and above to blackmail it with health-passports this is outrageous, not that this is not just unethical but also is subtle criminal way of braking the basic human rights in the western world, aside the risks that exists with mRNA editing ..., I am not sure if this is true but uK says there are already big side effects like blindness [1] but anyway the risks just from the LPN lipid nanoparticles are not small [2][2][2] but after all if this experiment fails there is another risk management around the corner in form of spliced t-cell boosting [3][3] so why to be worried about if some autoimmune reaction fireback!? definitively there are scientists that are warning that this hype is simply too dangerous to be accepted as normal [1][2][3] altho which need extra fear propaganda around death toll so people would be convinced that they must be mRNA patched, altho I dont believe that there is some conspiracy at stake, if there is such a thing they could easily apply nanobots in nescafe and softdrinks and everybody will be edited, in this case simply is word of opportunism for the genetics as open control group at dispose, and for the politicians is economic hype that things will go back to normal day after! yet somehow all the stats are skewed for imminent vaccination eg. even if the mortality of cov-sars-2 is 10% in the population, still is questionable the hysteria approach how quick are delivered these new mRNA vaccines, what about now when the mortality rate is ~2%, aside the fact that the pcr testing is not quite precise how its managed i.e. knowing how the contamination of the test environment is easy and on top there is lack of time for retesting with positive-negative control of the same samples so we would say the PCR tests are 100% valid, still these PCR tests are general detection as genetic presence of the virus, but as I am aware we need serological tests so we would have exact notion that some person is sars-cov-2 ill, but where and who is testing people en'masse with st's, thus the methodology for gathering corect statistic is extra questionable, yet is promoted as ultimately correct even as improvised!
CharonY Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 So no you still not acknowledging that these technologies are unrelated and therefore carry different risks. So there appears no balls for a meaningful discussion here. Basically it is the same as trying to bin the risks of nuclear power to combustion engines. Also your desire to downplay the impact of b the disease is nothing short of ridiculous. Some of the worst flu seasons in the US killed about 60k folks, which was a huge deal for the medical community. COVID-19 killed 500k. It is more than obvious that the mortality rate means little if everyone is susceptible.
Axion Posted March 7, 2021 Author Posted March 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, CharonY said: Basically it is the same as trying to bin the risks of nuclear power to combustion engines. I dont claim the risks are same, but the mRNA risks exist and they are not insured anyhow , why then the mRNA vaccines are introduced as safe, yes for those that fell in bed for sure, but for everybody else think better way is boosting the immunity with CBD tho if the body is full of toxins i.e. co2 choked then even that wont help, tho what could it be overcame with Citric Acid [1] that also serves as booster of Zinc in the cells [1] so basically there is not balanced mitigation of the pandemic risks as natural prevention and pharma approach, but strictly Lets Get All Vaccine Now, altho they are still experimental, so why such hype!?
Prof Reza Sanaye Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, Axion said: I dont claim the risks are same, but the mRNA risks exist and they are not insured anyhow , why then the mRNA vaccines are introduced as safe, yes for those that fell in bed for sure, but for everybody else think better way is boosting the immunity with CBD tho if the body is full of toxins i.e. co2 choked then even that wont help, tho what could it be overcame with Citric Acid [1] that also serves as booster of Zinc in the cells [1] so basically there is not balanced mitigation of the pandemic risks as natural prevention and pharma approach, but strictly Lets Get All Vaccine Now, altho they are still experimental, so why such hype!? I can only guess that such huge amounts of "hype" , as you name it , are for purposes of alleviating tension that is rising from left , right , and centre ; AND for bringing back some level of trust into the present Politico_Scientific Establishment . .. .. These vaccines' dangers , as you are quite well explaining , are evident.
CharonY Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 34 minutes ago, Axion said: so basically there is not balanced mitigation of the pandemic risks as natural prevention and pharma approach, but strictly Lets Get All Vaccine Now, altho they are still experimental, so why such hype!? If folks had taken it seriously and had been committed to social distancing the pandemic would have been over in Summer last year. The vaccine is needed because folks are still downplaying the risks of the disease, like you do.
Prof Reza Sanaye Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, CharonY said: If folks had taken it seriously and had been committed to social distancing the pandemic would have been over in Summer last year. The vaccine is needed because folks are still downplaying the risks of the disease, like you do. Then what shall we do when (many more natural AND synthetic) mutations occur every now and then soon after this grandiose public vaccination ?? !! Please do not tell us that they will simply not occur AND please also do not claim that the vaccination process itself shall suffice for any more mutations ........
swansont Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, Prof Reza Sanaye said: Then what shall we do when (many more natural AND synthetic) mutations occur every now and then soon after this grandiose public vaccination ?? !! Please do not tell us that they will simply not occur AND please also do not claim that the vaccination process itself shall suffice for any more mutations ........ ! Moderator Note This is off-topic (the topic is vaccine risk). 1 hour ago, Axion said: I dont claim the risks are same, but the mRNA risks exist and they are not insured anyhow , why then the mRNA vaccines are introduced as safe, yes for those that fell in bed for sure, but for everybody else think better way is boosting the immunity with CBD tho if the body is full of toxins i.e. co2 choked then even that wont help, tho what could it be overcame with Citric Acid [1] that also serves as booster of Zinc in the cells [1] ! Moderator Note You admit you have no expertise, and posting to other discussion boards is not evidence. You can ask question, but not also answer them (that’s soapboxing, and possibly represents an agenda). “full of toxins” also suggests pseudoscience.
Axion Posted March 7, 2021 Author Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, CharonY said: The vaccine is needed because folks are still downplaying the risks of the disease, like you do. how so, I dont deny the existence of the virus, nor said that people should enjoy like nothing is happening! I simply point there are mRNA risks circumvented by fear propaganda. and while there is need for CBD free disposal to all that want such immune boosting still only vaccines are free, eg. in Macedonia CBD is only corporate asset, altho as country we are so poor that we cant afford it even we are terminally ill, instead Marijuana planting to be legal at least as rural option for all that want to treat themselves naturally its only corporate skim ..., also there is no debate about Prevention like my proposition for citric acid and co2 balancing even less for citric acid as natural substitute for chloroquines as booster for Zinc which targets the virus directly ... somehow there is so huge vaccine hype that is ridiculous how even us-doctors get fired because have own stance [1][2][3] i.e. because they dont follow the mRNA mantra, yep the land of the free! the lecture in the first footnote is wow around the placenta risks in pregnant woman [3][3] hm is she suggesting there are eugenic shortcut coz malthusian elitist fears, probably easier way of population control in western countries unlike eg. in China [1] 1 hour ago, swansont said: ! Moderator Note You admit you have no expertise, and posting to other discussion boards is not evidence. You can ask question, but not also answer them (that’s soapboxing, and possibly represents an agenda). “full of toxins” also suggests pseudoscience. altho I am not scientist I am engaging in debate so I can check my findings and my understanding of the risks and alternatives, so I am not patronizing but checking whether mine logic is substantial, with hope that all I suggest would be fact checked through debate by more insightful members! I know I use sometimes hype points too eg. the "eugenic" insinuation above, or "body full of toxins" in the last post, but eugenics was real threat in the past century so I am not inventing something, altho it could be wrongly interpreted as someones agenda, tho my wow is exactly pointing how unbelievable is her statement as long term fertility mrna vaccine risk, and about the toxins yep many excess junk substances in the body are cleansed through the krebs co2 cycle ... Edited March 7, 2021 by Axion
swansont Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Axion said: I know I use sometimes hype points too eg. the "eugenic" insinuation above, or "body full of toxins" in the last post, but eugenics was real threat in the past century so I am not inventing something, altho it could be wrongly interpreted as someones agenda, tho my wow is exactly pointing how unbelievable is her statement as long term fertility mrna vaccine risk, and about the toxins yep many excess junk substances in the body are cleansed through the krebs co2 cycle ... ! Moderator Note You are inventing the connection to the current topic, and unsubstantiated phrasing such as “vaccine hype” is unacceptable. As is a claim of CBD immune-boosting, without scientific evidence connecting it to COVID-19.
Axion Posted March 7, 2021 Author Posted March 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, swansont said: ! As is a claim of CBD immune-boosting, without scientific evidence connecting it to COVID-19. I think I provided link with footnotes how CBD is boosting the lymph system to produce t-cells, here it is again ... just follow the term "lymph nodes" in the first footnotes, so simply more CBD more T-cells, now why this notion is not popularized scientifically its not mine to judge, but indeed is alternative to the vaccine hype regarding any virus or pathogen attack in the body!
swansont Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Axion said: I think I provided link with footnotes how CBD is boosting the lymph system to produce t-cells, here it is again ... just follow the term "lymph nodes" in the first footnotes, so simply more CBD more T-cells, now why this notion is not popularized scientifically its not mine to judge, but indeed is alternative to the vaccine hype regarding any virus or pathogen attack in the body! ! Moderator Note That’s a link to a discussion board. STOP DOING THAT. It’s not a link to anything that counts as evidence. The burden of proof is on you. You can’t, in effect, say “go look for it”
Axion Posted March 7, 2021 Author Posted March 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, swansont said: ! Moderator Note That’s a link to a discussion board. STOP DOING THAT. It’s not a link to anything that counts as evidence. The burden of proof is on you. You can’t, in effect, say “go look for it” how so, the link is archived so the studies to, I could repost them here too, but this thread is for mRNA risks not CBD potential as T-cell booster ... I just pointed to scientific studies as response that my stance about CBD is backed by evidence ...
swansont Posted March 7, 2021 Posted March 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, Axion said: how so, the link is archived so the studies to, I could repost them here too, but this thread is for mRNA risks not CBD potential as T-cell booster ... ! Moderator Note That was one of my points; this is not on-topic, but also, you need to follow rule 2.7 8 minutes ago, Axion said: I just pointed to scientific studies as response that my stance about CBD is backed by evidence ... ! Moderator Note You didn’t point to studies, you pointed to a discussion board. Not good enough. This is not a negotiation. 1
Axion Posted March 7, 2021 Author Posted March 7, 2021 this looks promising counter'agitprop [1][1] at least its just possible variable, just like the overlooked safety issues with introducing mass experimental vaccines as norm, altho in both cases I'll say dont take side but keep skeptical mind till You are not sure what is true, at least I am doing that, but in same time this means You should have at hand alternative to coup with all the new variants the pandemic in whole, so if thats not a case its better to consult psychiatrist before drop dead as unimmunized or became GuineaP as mRNA immunized ... https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/pfizer-moderna-vaccines-long-term-chronic-illness/
Arete Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 1) Literally all that's in the mRNA vaccines is mRNA, phospholipids and phosphate buffered saline. All of these components have been widely used in other medical applications for a long time, and it's actually a shorter and less risky list of ingredients than many widely used live attenuated and inactivated vaccines. There is actually reason to expect that mRNA vaccines are LESS likely to cause anaphylaxis than other vaccines rather than more. 2) All tests so far have shown that while the antibodies induced by the vaccines can have reduced binding efficiency to mutant variants, the binding rate is not zero, so the vaccines offer some protection to mutant variants. 3) Over 300 million doses of mRNA vaccine have now been administered. Anaphylaxis has occurred at a rate of 11.1 per million doses and zero deaths have been recorded. 4) There is no causative explanation for why CBD would lead to reduced COVID19 infection rates, nor empirical evidence that it does. Ergo, the suggestion that CBD should be taken instead of a vaccine for ANY disease is like saying that keeping your eyes open while driving a car is a healthy alternative to installing the brakes. Edit to add Childrens Health Defence is an anti-vax organization who have demonstrably spread misinformation and false conspiracies about vaccine safety and have no place in any scientific discussion of virtually anything. Edited March 8, 2021 by Arete 3
Axion Posted March 8, 2021 Author Posted March 8, 2021 8 hours ago, Arete said: to add Childrens Health Defence is an anti-vax organization who have demonstrably spread misinformation and false conspiracies about vaccine safety and have no place in any scientific discussion of virtually anything. I've put that link because there is pointed to similar logic by different doctors, now how antivax is that portal its irrelative, we can question the premise do ... 4) ... about CBD in the proposed link there are offered studies in the footnotes, and about any control group trials the problem lies in the big'pharma! simply if people heal themselves with own CBD phytotherapy then the diminished profit of the big pharma would disbalance at best eg. the us-economy [1] its simple its left on personal knowledge, altho many terminally ill from cancer healed themselves with CBD ... ... 3) ... but as in case with covid-19 statistics whether about mortality of the virus or the vaccination, western authorities can skew the statistics how they like or want, at least they are doing that in front of everyone for a while in few other crucial fields [1][1] 2) and 1) its not mine to judge what will be the side effects, I am not virologist pharmacologist or epidemiologist, simply saying these mRNA vaccines are still experimental technology, without any insurance except fear propaganda, as science biology altho knows neatly many things still cant say that is enough insightful so it could edit DNA RNA or Immunity per'se and that to have no side effects, I proposed above in the 3rd post that in the field of bio'resonance we are stil light years behind, simply this is now trial&error approach, which in ww2 was more easy as eugenics, but now it must be seled as fear from the grip and normally people seeing the earth life as ultimate existence are willing to subdue themselves as humanistic junkies almost to eugenic experiments, as I said this is logical approach for those that are on deathbed but for all cmon ... think here its not in question only the free will about immunization how someone will approach this pandemics i.e. in natural or artificial manner, but above all is the blackmail of possible introduction of health-passports, and this by all mean is wrong how quietly is announced without any debate around without any question to be allowed almost as technocracy introduced on small door, next would be substitution of the fiat by digital currencies, maybe in parallel [1][1] and in the end we just need one big fat government that will decide who is fit for super'humanity and colonizing new virtual worlds! -2
swansont Posted March 8, 2021 Posted March 8, 2021 52 minutes ago, Axion said: 4) ... about CBD in the proposed link there are offered studies in the footnotes, and about any control group trials the problem lies in the big'pharma! simply if people heal themselves with own CBD phytotherapy then the diminished profit of the big pharma would disbalance at best eg. the us-economy [1] its simple its left on personal knowledge, altho many terminally ill from cancer healed themselves with CBD ... ! Moderator Note Conspiracy is not consistent with how we do discussions here, and I told you to stop linking to other discussion boards. Closed. Do not bring any of these topics up again.
Recommended Posts