What is existence?

[Alex Mercer]

What does it mean for something to exist? Does it even make sense to define 'non-existence'?

 

 

[studiot]

9 minutes ago, Alex Mercer said:

What does it mean for something to exist? Does it even make sense to define 'non-existence'?

 

 

 

I think you need to provide substantially more context to engender a sensible discussion.

[Alex Mercer]

Just a simple philosophical question about the definition of existence. I was wondering maybe the answer is: existence is a concept stemming from the human mind. But that if that is right then that could be said of all things we try to define in this world. Maybe objective reality existence, things that we observe that we would think existed if our bodies didn't (so the the world/universe around us).

What does it mean for me to exist, or this apple I have to exist?

[studiot]

1 hour ago, Alex Mercer said:

Just a simple philosophical question about the definition of existence. I was wondering maybe the answer is: existence is a concept stemming from the human mind. But that if that is right then that could be said of all things we try to define in this world. Maybe objective reality existence, things that we observe that we would think existed if our bodies didn't (so the the world/universe around us).

What does it mean for me to exist, or this apple I have to exist?

I wish it was as simple as you seem to think.

First off 'does' is the present tense of a verb.

Are you including other tenses

Will my dinner exist tomorrow ?

Did the dinosaurs exist ?

Then the there is the subject, which is a noun.

English nounds can be concrete,( like your apple) or abstract

Does Harry Potter exist ?

Does my reflection in a mirror 'exist' ?

Does the centre of a torus (donut) exist ?

 

So context please ?

[Conscious Energy]

2 hours ago, Alex Mercer said:

What does it mean for something to exist?

 

 

Physically observable, mathematically expressible.

[swansont]

9 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

Physically observable, mathematically expressible.

Concepts don’t exist? 

[Conscious Energy]

41 minutes ago, swansont said:

Concepts don’t exist? 

If there is any physical or mathematical clue about its existence: might.

 

[joigus]

As Heraclitus and Take That (many centuries later) said, everything changes. Panta rhei.

Nothing is the same, so in some sense, nothing exists.

Or, as Antonio Machado said,

 

Todo pasa y todo queda,

pero lo nuestro es pasar,

pasar haciendo caminos,

caminos sobre la mar.

 

My sorry attempt at a translation (though better than the one I've found in English):

 

All flees and all remains,

but our business is to flee,

to flee while making our pathways,

pathways traced over the sea.

 

1 hour ago, studiot said:

Will my dinner exist tomorrow ?

Did the dinosaurs exist ?

 

1 hour ago, studiot said:

Does Harry Potter exist ?

Does my reflection in a mirror 'exist' ?

Does the centre of a torus (donut) exist ?

Good examples!

[Conscious Energy]

2 minutes ago, joigus said:

Nothing is the same, so in some sense, nothing exists.

So you mean you do not exist because you experiencing time. Interesting. Why?

Any of you previous memories, atoms or electrons could be recognisable in the next upcoming moment as time changes or you are an absolutely new individual by every passed moment of time? Why? 

[swansont]

14 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

If there is any physical or mathematical clue about its existence: might.

 

But does math exist?

[joigus]

7 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

So you mean you do not exist because you experiencing time. Interesting. Why?

 

"in some sense" are important words in what I said.

On the other hand, if you can mention anything that doesn't exist in any sense, I will answer all your questions.

Harry Potter, the man I was or the dinner I ate yesterday, maths and concepts, a donut's hole, a particular region of space. Do these things exist?

8 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

Any of you previous memories, atoms or electrons could be recognisable in the next upcoming moment as time changes or you are an absolutely new individual by every passed moment of time? Why?

In a way, you are a new individual. I capture electrons and lose electrons constantly, the cells in my gut die every three days --if I remember correctly--, and in the end, electrons are just instantiations of a quantum field. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by joigus

[Conscious Energy]

4 minutes ago, joigus said:

On the other hand, if you can mention anything that doesn't exist in any sense, I will answer all your questions

Nothing. The closest you can come to this sense is empty space(time)...

[JayTony]

5 minutes ago, joigus said:

"in some sense" are important words in what I said.

On the other hand, if you can mention anything that doesn't exist in any sense, I will answer all your questions.

Harry Potter, the man I was or the dinner I ate yesterday, maths and concepts, a donut's hole, a particular region of space. Do these things exist?

Does a shadow exist?

[joigus]

3 minutes ago, JayTony said:

Does a shadow exist?

Good one.

When an object casts a shadow that covers my shadow completely, has my shadow ceased to exist?

[studiot]

5 minutes ago, joigus said:

Good one.

When an object casts a shadow that covers my shadow completely, has my shadow ceased to exist?

+1

 

I said it is complicated.

Thankfully the English language has (nearly) the wherewithall to deal with the subject.

27 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

So you mean you do not exist because you experiencing time. Interesting. Why?

I have already pointed out the connection between time and existence.

 

[vexspits]

12 hours ago, Alex Mercer said:

What does it mean for something to exist?

 

 

I think it can mean different things in different cases. Swanson brought up the example of concepts. Of course they exist, but do they exist in the same way as a table, a chair, or a tree? They don’t exist materially do they? Could you rearrange the molecular structure of a concept? I don’t think so. 

I think the best way to approach the question: “What does it mean to exist?” is to not assume that it has only one meaning. One should examine a particular case and then ask:  “In what sense does it exist?”  

[Conscious Energy]

9 hours ago, swansont said:

But does math exist?

I think yes. The Universe has geometry and a number of physical entities countable. (Independent we are aware of them or not). 

[Area54]

14 hours ago, swansont said:

But does math exist?

You can count on it!

[swansont]

5 hours ago, Conscious Energy said:

I think yes. The Universe has geometry and a number of physical entities countable. (Independent we are aware of them or not). 

But these are not physical things unto themselves. 

[Conscious Energy]

44 minutes ago, swansont said:

But these are not physical things unto themselves. 

Why the volume of space (which has a geometry) does not count as a physical thing?

[dimreepr]

57 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

Why the volume of space (which has a geometry) does not count as a physical thing?

A map is a physical thing; a route planned, requires your existence.

[Conscious Energy]

58 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

A map is a physical thing; a route planned, requires your existence.

Space is a physical thing. 

Any route unplanned but existing does not require my existence.

Do you think the route of the milkyway is planned? Why would the route of our galaxy require anyones existence and planning?

Does the route of the milkyway still exist, even if there would be noone to observer that?

Edited March 28, 2021 by Conscious Energy

[dimreepr]

15 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

Any route unplanned but existing does not require my existence.

Who's existence is required?

For instance, who drew the map? 

[Conscious Energy]

10 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Who's existence is required?

For instance, who drew the map? 

Noones. Routes in space and Space itself existing without anyones presence. The map is not needed for a route to exist. 

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

A map is a physical thing; a route planned, requires your existence.

 Why would anyones existence required for a route to exist?

Edited March 28, 2021 by Conscious Energy

[dimreepr]

7 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

A map is not needed for a route to exist. 

But you are...