Kyrisch Posted August 22, 2005 Posted August 22, 2005 I've been thinking long and hard about this because my girlfriend just recently told me that she is bisexual and I'm trying to understand her point of view. I have formulated two theories; these theories are sort of along the lines of nature vs. nurture: [Nurture] Every human being is born a heterosexual and environmental stimuli cause a hormonal/neurological imbalance that causes the individual afflicted to become sexually attracted to the same sex. This is the side that many heterosexuals take, claiming that bi- and homosexuality is unnatural and abnormal. [Nature (and then nurture)] Every human being is born bisexual and environmental influences cause an individual to drift toward hetero- or homosexuality. I am starting to believe this theory over the other because I myself have always felt an underlying attraction to men; I've ignored it until now, but my recent revelation has made me rethink these feelings. Thoughts on this?
mezarashi Posted August 22, 2005 Posted August 22, 2005 I've done alot of read up on the nature of homosexuality back in my highschool days. I remember debating on the whole issue of gay marriage. It appears that it is more likely than not that homosexuality is genetic, so you are in effect born gay. It's like transexuals; ever heard of being born in the wrong body? Anyway, I have not heard of the story from the bi-sexual side. I think there is somewhat of a choice here. If you feel attraction to the "proper" sex, then to a certain extent you are capable of being "normal". It seems like they are choosing to do the abnormal. Again I have no evidence, but my comments are that I would attribute this to a psychological abnormality rather than genetic as with the homosexual case.
Kyrisch Posted August 22, 2005 Author Posted August 22, 2005 At first that is exactly what I said to her (Only in a nicer, more understanding way ), and she replied: "I would love to be normal, and just be attracted to guys, but I can't stop my feelings."
mezarashi Posted August 22, 2005 Posted August 22, 2005 At first that is exactly what I said to her (Only in a nicer, more understanding way ), and she replied: "I would love to be normal, and just be attracted to guys, but I can't stop my feelings." Haha, well that's why we have psychologists . Not all "psychos" (if I may) can treat themselves.
mezarashi Posted August 22, 2005 Posted August 22, 2005 Bisexuality is not psychosis. There we go. Now you're making a statement.
mezarashi Posted August 22, 2005 Posted August 22, 2005 Would it have sounded nicer is I added a smiley face to the end of that post (#6)? You sounded unsure in the beginning and I'm just glad you have a solid stance now that's all
Kyrisch Posted August 22, 2005 Author Posted August 22, 2005 Well I was never comparing bisexuality to psychosis at all! And it would have been nicer if you hadn't called my girlfriend a psycho.
Severian Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 It appears that it is more likely than not that homosexuality is genetic, so you are in effect born gay. I don't believe that. You are not born with a gene dictating whether you prefer vanilla or strawberry ice-cream, so why should you be born with a gene dictating whether you prefer men or women? You may have a genetic preference for one or the other, but it is probably not one gene and I imagine that social phenotypic factors are more powerful. Ask youself this: if you were brought up in a society where it was normal to be homosexual, do you think you would be? I think if most people are being honest then they would say yes. It is only natural to be infuenced by your surroundings. Also, I get pissed off with the attitude that to be 'acceptable' homosexuality has to be a matter of 'who you are' (ie. genetic) rather than a matter what you feel like. No-one should be telling you what to feel, so why is it less acceptable if it is an expression of choice? I have had bisexual friends bullied by the gay community, claiming that they are really 'fully gay' and are just kidding themselves that they are bi. That is as bad as homophobia in my book. People should be free to have (consensual) sex with whomever they want without having to give an explanation to anyone (unless in a stable relationship with someone else of course, in which case they own an explanation to their partner). And they certainly shouldn't have to prove that their prediliction is genetic!
1veedo Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 my girlfriend just recently told me that she is bisexualI've met so many bisexual women that I have done research. It turns out that women are very likely to be bisexual. Guys are either gay or strait. But with women, the mode is just to the right of being completely bisexual. There's actually a lot of psycology and evolutionary musings about this. There was an expiriment done with sex videos: Guys: Most guys like regular sex vids and lesbians. Women: Most women like regular sex and lesbians. Only a few liked gay videos. You can actually ask most women this question and assume it's yes: Have you ever felt attraction or held sexual desires for another woman? While a lot will say yes, only a few will call themselves lesbose.
1veedo Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Ask youself this: if you were brought up in a society where it was normal to be homosexual, do you think you would be? I think if most people are being honest then they would say yes. It is only natural to be infuenced by your surroundings.Actually, in Greek sosciety homosexuality was accepted and actually encouraged. Most athletes were gay, at least. Although I think it's more genetical then you're making it out to be.Also, I get pissed off with the attitude that to be 'acceptable' homosexuality has to be a matter of 'who you are' (ie. genetic) rather than a matter what you feel like. No-one should be telling you what to feel, so why is it less acceptable if it is an expression of choice? I have had bisexual friends bullied by the gay community, claiming that they are really 'fully gay' and are just kidding themselves that they are bi. That is as bad as homophobia in my book. People should be free to have (consensual) sex with whomever they want without having to give an explanation to anyone (unless in a stable relationship of course). And they certainly shouldn't have to prove that their prediliction is genetic!It's because of the religious right; conservative Christianity. These Christians try to say that being gay is a sin; in the Bible, it's a punishment. So they tried to prove that it's not a choise, at which point these fundies were like "No it isn't." "Yeah, it's genetical." "No it's not..." I had a fundy just yesterday tell me that homosexuality is a choise. To which I replied, "So what!" I mean, if it is a choise, and they want to be gay, why should you have to stop them? If I decided to take up football, would you retort with pig scin is uncleane? ...These people really piss me off. Even if it has nothing to do with genetics, though, it's still not a choise. You cant chose if you like vinilla or strabery ice cream; genetic or not.
mike90 Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Either way it really doesn't strike me as a choice. I've met a lot of people that say they were attracted to the same sex from birth. I've also met a lot of people who say their sexuality was shaped more by events in their life. Seems to me like it can be either or a combination. But i would say dont beat yourself up about it either way. Everyone should be free to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. Unfortunately we live in a world with all these nazi-like ultra conservative religions trying to tell everyone they're going to burn in fiery hell unless they stifle their individuality
BobbyJoeCool Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Well... instinctively speaking, the only reason to be attracted to a different person is reproduction. so, guy to guy, or girl to girl... My view on this is that you're attracted to a single person for their personality traits. EG: You're attracted to someone who is very understanding. So, what's the difference if you find that in a guy or a girl. The thing here is emotion. I know a LOT of guys who have told me that they could be gay because they understand guys, but not girls. That the way girls in general act makes them want a guy instead, because girls seem very unpredicable, and it makes trying to deal with them difficult. Guys act like guys (generally) and girls like girls... Girls understand girls, guys understand guys. The misunderstanding between the sexes (which I believe can be summed up as followes... Guys want respect, Girls want love.), leads to wanting the same sex, because they understand what the other person wants, and can give it to them. Me personally, I'm more attracted to a girl I know who is bi-sexual, because: A) She understands the way I act (a cross between girl and guy) B) She is everything I want in a mate (that I know about her anyway...) C) She is physically attractive (to me anyway) The problem is that I'm her boss, and therefor we can't even entertain the idea, furthermore, according to the rules, cannot even be friends... grr. (and she has a girlfriend). But anyway, that's my take on it.
mike90 Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Wow thats a slew of problems. I tend to agree somewhat that personality matters above all else when it comes to attraction. Is she interested in starting some relationship with you?
BobbyJoeCool Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 I don't know, because I can't even tell her that I've thought about said relationship, and we can't talk about it because... I'm her boss... BAH-HUMBUG! However, if I'm still there in a couple years, I might end up being her collegue instead of boss, and then would be able to talk to her about it. EDIT: I do know that she wants to be friends, in a more than just regular friends way (as in, like REALLY close friends, but still friends). but again, rules say I'm not supposed to socialize with the crew outside of the work-place because it could effect the profetionalism requred for a "comfortable" work-place.
beautyundone Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 i'm going to state my opinions, just for the record. i believe that there are two things which could cause a person to be homosexual 1) a psychological disorder, formed from experience and the way one is raised. 2) a chemical imbalance (males end up with more estrogen than they should have, etc.) or a genetic mutation... basically, something that they cannot control. if you think about it, who would choose to be homosexual? who would CHOOSE to be ridiculed and looked down upon by so many people for the rest of their lives?
Dak Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 People could chose not to give a shit about what petty-minded people think of them, and just do what feels natural.
BobbyJoeCool Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 who would CHOOSE to be ridiculed and looked down upon by so many people for the rest of their lives? Me. Because you're ignoring the bright side, and I don't care what people say about me. As a guy, I'd rather hang out with other guys than with girls. For me, they're more fun to be around. Imagine, spending the rest of your life having fun with "friends" instead of a spouse. Life becomes a lot more fun, because you just know how to deal with the other person (as Girls can't seem to handle guys problems in any decent fasion, and vise versa is also true, if not more so.) and there's a lot less worring about the other person because everything gets out in the open faster, and so, more time is spend on personal endevours...
beautyundone Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 yes, but if being homosexual felt natural to them then one of two said things would have to make it feel natural. no one grows up straight and then says "i think i'll be homosexual just for the heck of it". i do not think it is a choice, such as many people make it out to be, who you are sexually attracted to.
BobbyJoeCool Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 So you're saying that I have one of the "mental diseses" you stated? Just because I'm attracted to both sexes? I've been to doctors, and I have neither of those. I do not have an abnormal amount of estrogen, and I've been pronounced mentaly completely fine, except for, a while ago, a chronic depression.
beautyundone Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 no idea as to how you could possibly be homosexual? you were raised normally, etc? are you POSITIVE you have no genetic mutation of any sort that could cause you to be like this?
Dak Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Its not always a choice, but sometimes it is. and, whilst there are indications that genetic mutations/experiences in upbringing etc could cause homosexuality, its more than likely that not all cases are accountable in this fashion, due to the large number of cases where no attributable mutation/experience is present.
BobbyJoeCool Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 no idea as to how you could possibly be homosexual? you were raised normally, etc? are you POSITIVE you have no genetic mutation of any sort that could cause you to be like this? Firsly, I'm bi-sexual, not homosexual. And, before I could even begin to say if I was raised "normaly," you'd have to say what normal is. I'd say I was raised normaly. I mean, there was no "child abuse" or the such... there was no, "You MUST do this or we'll disown you." type thing... And, if it's a genetic mutation... wouldn't that mean that my children would also have the same "problem?"
Dak Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 By the way, there have been a few threads on this before. they're interesting reading: http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8148 http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1618 http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=318 http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2870 http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2742
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