Aliens from space (split from Time to talk about UFO's or now as the military calls them UAP's?)

[Moontanman]

48 minutes ago, swansont said:

Plutonium being famously available in every corner drugstore.

If what you claim were true, we’d be awash in nuclear weapons - every country and radical group would already have them. 

Well it was intended to be "scary asm" (auto correct) sarcasm I admit to being a bit obtuse when it comes to humor, but the key to controlling nukes is control of fissionable material not secret blue prints. 

But my point is that technological secrets cannot and should not be something that is kept forever. In this day and age its highly improbable that a tech secret from 50 years ago is still relevant enough to justify allowing a rumor like UFOs to propagate through society. Admission that specific UFO sightings were being covered up due to secret technology would be a profound blow to the whole UFO idea of aliens.  

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

When the input signal is too low or confusing, the brain will make something up. That's how pareidolia works.

That is an important revelation my friend, to both ghosts and UAP but in the absence of evidence of such sensory interference or in the presence of a sighting (of either) that simply cannot be mistaken identity do we really assign the same probability to a supernatural phenomena that we do to a natural phenomena we already have an actual example of?

I've seen a ghost, a crying baby sitting on a dresser in my grandma's house (in my defense it was as I woke up from a nights sleep) but it was real to me. I was also the only person to see and hear the baby, there were other people in the house. I was 12, even then I didn't assign much significance to the experience mostly because no one else heard the crying baby as I watched it fade away almost like it evaporated.

Weird experience, makes the hair stand up on my neck even now to think of it.

Now compare that to a sighting where what was called a day light disk is sighted up close and personal by multiple people. Obviously a structured craft seen by more than one person, still doesn't make it real but would anyone really put both of those in the same category? 

I honestly do not think so. 

20 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Your point being???

Hubris won't kill you, it just makes you unhappy, until you die wondering...

 

Thank you!

[dimreepr]

31 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

Thank you!

you're welcome...

[swansont]

 

1 hour ago, Moontanman said:

But my point is that technological secrets cannot and should not be something that is kept forever. In this day and age its highly improbable that a tech secret from 50 years ago is still relevant enough to justify allowing a rumor like UFOs to propagate through society. Admission that specific UFO sightings were being covered up due to secret technology would be a profound blow to the whole UFO idea of aliens.  

MigL pointed out that material has been declassified, and one of the links I recall said that when some Roswell details were released, there were plenty of people who still think there was a coverup, and still think it was aliens. The release did basically nothing.

I think you overestimate the effect here - facts don’t make much of a dent with conspiracy folks. “The government can’t be trusted” colors everything.

[Moontanman]

2 minutes ago, swansont said:

 

MigL pointed out that material has been declassified, and one of the links I recall said that when some Roswell details were released, there were plenty of people who still think there was a coverup, and still think it was aliens. The release did basically nothing.

They lied about Roswell... twice... before they released what is now assumed to be the truth.

2 minutes ago, swansont said:

I think you overestimate the effect here - facts don’t make much of a dent with conspiracy folks. “The government can’t be trusted” colors everything.

The gov can't be trusted is completely justified, they lie their asses off when it suits them. 

[Externet]

1 hour ago, Moontanman said:

They lied about Roswell... twice... before they released what is now assumed to be the truth.

 

==============================

Retyped for ease of reading :

==============================

 

TOP SECRET

 

 

HEADQUARTERS, ARMY AIR FORCES

WASHINGTON

Air Accident Report on "Flying Disc" aircraft near the White Sands

Proving Ground, New Mexico

D333.5 ID (16 Jul 47) 1st Inf

 

HQ., Air Material Command, Wright Field, Ohio, 16 July 1947

 

TO: Commanding General, Army Air Forces, Washington 25 D.C.

HQ., AIR DEFENSE COMMAND, Mitchell Field, New York

ATTN: AC/15-2

 

Forwarded for your information.

 

FOR THE COMMANDING GENERAL:

 

Unclear signature

N. F. TWINING

Lieutenant General, U.S.A.

Commanding

001 EN

002 ED

00E1 ER???

00H4 ERR2?

TESO GPP ??

PS PS

 

Unclear signature (Holliday?)

????? R. ???????

Brig. General, U.S.A.

Chief, Research & Engineering

Air Materiel Command

 

1. As ordered by Presidential Directive, dated 9 July 1947, a preliminary

investigation of a recovered "Flying Disc" and remains of

a possible second disc, was conducted by the senior staff of this

command. The data furnished in this report was provided by the engineer

staff personnel of T-2 and Aircraft Laboratory, Engineering Division T-3.

Additional data was supplied by the scientific personnel of the Jet

Propulsion Laboratory, CIT and the Army Air Forces Scientific Advisory

Group, headed by Dr. Theodore von Karman. Further analysis was conducted

by personnel from Research and Development.

 

2. It is the collective view of this investigative body, that the

aircraft recovered by the Army and Air Force units near Victorio Peak

and Socorro, New Mexico, are not of US manufacture for the following

reasons:

 

a. The circular, disc-shaped "planform" design does not resemble

any design currently under development by this command nor of any Navy

project.

 

b. The lack of any external propulsion system, power plant,

intake, exhaust either for propeller or jet propulsion, warrants this

view.

 

c. The inability of the German scientists from Fort Bliss and

White Sands Proving Ground to make a positive identification of a secret

German V weapon out of these discs. Though the possibility that the

Russians have managed to develop such a craft, remains. The lack of any

markings, ID numbers or instructions in Cyrillic, has placed serious doubt

in the minds of many, that the objects recovered are not of Russian

manufacture either.

 

d. Upon examination of the interior of the craft, a compartment

exibiting a possible atomic engine was discovered. At least this is the

opinion of Dr. Oppeheimer and Dr. von Karman. A possibility exists that

part of the craft itself comprises the propulsion system, thus allowing

the reactor to function as a heat exchanger and permitting the storage of

energy into a substance for later use. This may allow the converting of

mass into energy, unlike the release of energy of our atomic bombs. The

description of the power room is as follows:

 

(1) A doughnut shaped tube approximately thity-five feet in

in diameter, made of what appears to be a plastic

material, surrounding a central core (see sketch in

TAB 1). This tube was translucent, approximately one

inch this. The tube appeared to be filled with a

clear substance, possibly a heavy water. A large rod

centered inside the tube, was wrapped in a coil of

what appears to be of copper material, ran through

the circumference of the tube. This may be the reactor

control mechanism or a storage battery. There were no

moving parts decernable within the power room nor in

MISSING LINE HERE.

 

(2) This activation of a electrical potential is

believed to be the primary power to the reactor,

though it is only a theory at present. Just how

a heavy water reactor functions in this environment

is unknown.

 

(3) Underneath the power plant, was dicovered a ball-

turret, approximately ten feet in diameter. This

turret was encompassed by a series of gears that has

a unusual ratio not known by any of our engineers.

On the underside of the turret were four circular

cavities, coated with some smooth material not

identified. These cavities are symetrical but seem

to be movable. Just how is not known. The movement of

the turret coincides with the dome-shaped copula

compartment above the power room. It is believed that

the main propulsion system is a bladeless turbine,

similar to current development now underway at AMC

and the Mogul Project. A possible theory was devised

by Dr. August Steinhoff (a Paperclip scientist), Dr.

Werhner von Braun and Dr. Theodore von Karman: as the

craft moves through the air, it somehow draws the

oxygen from the atmosphere and by a induction process,

generates a atomic fusion reaction (see TAB 2). The

air outside the craft would be ionized, thus propelling

the craft forward. Coupled with the circular air foil

for lift, the craft would presumably have an unlimited

range and air speed. This may account for the reported

absence of any noise and the apparent blue flame often

associated with rapid acceleration.

 

(4) On the deck of the power room there are what resembles

typewiter keys, possibly reactor/powerplant controls.

There were no conventional electronics not wiring to be

seen connecting these controls to the propulsion turret.

 

e. There is a flight deck located inside the copula section.

It is round and domed at the top. The absence of canopy, observation

windows/blisters, or any optical projection, lends support to the opinion

that this craft is either guided by remote viewing or is remotely

controlled.

 

(1) A semi-circular photo-tube array (possibly television).

 

(2) Crew compartments were hermetically sealed via a solidi-

fication process.

 

(3) No weld marks, rivets or soldered joints.

 

(4) Craft components appear to be molded and pressed into a

perfect fit.

 

Typing errors: exibiting, Oppeheimer, decernable, thity, dicovered, symetrical, Werhner,

typewiter. copula

[Moontanman]

4 minutes ago, Externet said:

 

==============================

Retyped for ease of reading :

==============================

 

TOP SECRET

 

 

HEADQUARTERS, ARMY AIR FORCES

WASHINGTON

Air Accident Report on "Flying Disc" aircraft near the White Sands

Proving Ground, New Mexico

D333.5 ID (16 Jul 47) 1st Inf

 

HQ., Air Material Command, Wright Field, Ohio, 16 July 1947

 

TO: Commanding General, Army Air Forces, Washington 25 D.C.

HQ., AIR DEFENSE COMMAND, Mitchell Field, New York

ATTN: AC/15-2

 

Forwarded for your information.

 

FOR THE COMMANDING GENERAL:

 

Unclear signature

N. F. TWINING

Lieutenant General, U.S.A.

Commanding

001 EN

002 ED

00E1 ER???

00H4 ERR2?

TESO GPP ??

PS PS

 

Unclear signature (Holliday?)

????? R. ???????

Brig. General, U.S.A.

Chief, Research & Engineering

Air Materiel Command

 

1. As ordered by Presidential Directive, dated 9 July 1947, a preliminary

investigation of a recovered "Flying Disc" and remains of

a possible second disc, was conducted by the senior staff of this

command. The data furnished in this report was provided by the engineer

staff personnel of T-2 and Aircraft Laboratory, Engineering Division T-3.

Additional data was supplied by the scientific personnel of the Jet

Propulsion Laboratory, CIT and the Army Air Forces Scientific Advisory

Group, headed by Dr. Theodore von Karman. Further analysis was conducted

by personnel from Research and Development.

 

2. It is the collective view of this investigative body, that the

aircraft recovered by the Army and Air Force units near Victorio Peak

and Socorro, New Mexico, are not of US manufacture for the following

reasons:

 

a. The circular, disc-shaped "planform" design does not resemble

any design currently under development by this command nor of any Navy

project.

 

b. The lack of any external propulsion system, power plant,

intake, exhaust either for propeller or jet propulsion, warrants this

view.

 

c. The inability of the German scientists from Fort Bliss and

White Sands Proving Ground to make a positive identification of a secret

German V weapon out of these discs. Though the possibility that the

Russians have managed to develop such a craft, remains. The lack of any

markings, ID numbers or instructions in Cyrillic, has placed serious doubt

in the minds of many, that the objects recovered are not of Russian

manufacture either.

 

d. Upon examination of the interior of the craft, a compartment

exibiting a possible atomic engine was discovered. At least this is the

opinion of Dr. Oppeheimer and Dr. von Karman. A possibility exists that

part of the craft itself comprises the propulsion system, thus allowing

the reactor to function as a heat exchanger and permitting the storage of

energy into a substance for later use. This may allow the converting of

mass into energy, unlike the release of energy of our atomic bombs. The

description of the power room is as follows:

 

(1) A doughnut shaped tube approximately thity-five feet in

in diameter, made of what appears to be a plastic

material, surrounding a central core (see sketch in

TAB 1). This tube was translucent, approximately one

inch this. The tube appeared to be filled with a

clear substance, possibly a heavy water. A large rod

centered inside the tube, was wrapped in a coil of

what appears to be of copper material, ran through

the circumference of the tube. This may be the reactor

control mechanism or a storage battery. There were no

moving parts decernable within the power room nor in

MISSING LINE HERE.

 

(2) This activation of a electrical potential is

believed to be the primary power to the reactor,

though it is only a theory at present. Just how

a heavy water reactor functions in this environment

is unknown.

 

(3) Underneath the power plant, was dicovered a ball-

turret, approximately ten feet in diameter. This

turret was encompassed by a series of gears that has

a unusual ratio not known by any of our engineers.

On the underside of the turret were four circular

cavities, coated with some smooth material not

identified. These cavities are symetrical but seem

to be movable. Just how is not known. The movement of

the turret coincides with the dome-shaped copula

compartment above the power room. It is believed that

the main propulsion system is a bladeless turbine,

similar to current development now underway at AMC

and the Mogul Project. A possible theory was devised

by Dr. August Steinhoff (a Paperclip scientist), Dr.

Werhner von Braun and Dr. Theodore von Karman: as the

craft moves through the air, it somehow draws the

oxygen from the atmosphere and by a induction process,

generates a atomic fusion reaction (see TAB 2). The

air outside the craft would be ionized, thus propelling

the craft forward. Coupled with the circular air foil

for lift, the craft would presumably have an unlimited

range and air speed. This may account for the reported

absence of any noise and the apparent blue flame often

associated with rapid acceleration.

 

(4) On the deck of the power room there are what resembles

typewiter keys, possibly reactor/powerplant controls.

There were no conventional electronics not wiring to be

seen connecting these controls to the propulsion turret.

 

e. There is a flight deck located inside the copula section.

It is round and domed at the top. The absence of canopy, observation

windows/blisters, or any optical projection, lends support to the opinion

that this craft is either guided by remote viewing or is remotely

controlled.

 

(1) A semi-circular photo-tube array (possibly television).

 

(2) Crew compartments were hermetically sealed via a solidi-

fication process.

 

(3) No weld marks, rivets or soldered joints.

 

(4) Craft components appear to be molded and pressed into a

perfect fit.

 

Typing errors: exibiting, Oppeheimer, decernable, thity, dicovered, symetrical, Werhner,

typewiter. copula

WOW! I've never seen this, do you have links to the originals? 

[Externet]

[Moontanman]

6 minutes ago, Externet said:

I don't know what to say, I've never seen these papers, confirming their source would be my next step. 

[Externet]

 

 

Retyped for ease of reading :

 

IPU Summary

                                                      TOP SECRET

                                                            ULTRA

 

 

INTERPLANETARY PHENOMENON UNIT SUMMARY

 

INTELLIGENCE ASSESSMENT File ref. 001947122-A.1206

 

                    1.      The extraordinary recovery of fallen airborne objects in

the state of New Mexico, between 4 July - 6 July 1947: This Summary was

prepared by Headquarters Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit, Scientific and

Technical Branch, Counterintelligence Directorate, as requested by A.C.

of S., G-2, at the expressed order of Chief of Staff.

                    2.      At 2332 MST, 3 July 47, radar staions in east Texas and

White Sands Proving Ground, N.M., tracked two unidentified aircraft

unitl both dropped off radar. Two crash s

ites have been located close

to the WSPG. Site LZ-1 was located at a ranch near Corona, approx. 75

miles northwest of the town of Roswell. Site LZ-2 was located approx.

20 miles southwest of the town of Socorro, at Lat. 33-40-31    , Long.

106-28-29      , with Oscura Peak being the geographic reference point.

                    3.      The AST personnel were mainly interested in LZ-2 as

this site contained the majority of structural detail of the craft's

airframe, propulsion and navigation technology. The recovery of five

bodies in a damaged escape cylinder, precluded an investigation at

LZ-1.

                    4.      On arrival at LZ-2, personnel assessed the finds as not

belonging to any aircraft, rocket, weapons, or balloon test that are

normally conducted from surrounding bases. First reports indicated that

the first crash investigators from Roswell AAF that LZ-1 was the

remains of a AAF top secret MOGUL balloon project. When scientists

 

 

                                                                  -2-

                                                        TOP SECRET

                                                              ULTRA                       

 

                                                        TOP SECRET

                                                              ULTRA

 

 

from the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory arrived to inspect LZ-2, it

became apparent to all concerned that what had crashed in the desert

was something out of this world.

                    5.      Interviews with radar operators and officers from the

Signal Corps Engineering Laboratories, Fort Monmouth, N.J., ??? were

tracking these objects on-and-off since June 29 from Station "A", all

indicated that these targets had periodically remained stationary for

minutes at a time, then would resume their original course, flying from

the southwest to northwest. SCEL antennas had locked onto a flight of

three objects on 3 July and lost them around 2330 MST on 4 July (a V-2

was scheduled for launch which is why SCEL Station "A" was able to do

a track). It has been learned that at least six radar stations in east

Texas (see detailed report in attchment A), and radar stations at

Alamagordo AAF and Kirtland AAF, had also picked up these objects on

the 4th as well. Using topographical maps and triangularization, a

last known position and bearing was calculated which helped search

parties to locate the general area. WWWWWWWWWW W WW WWW WWWWWW

WWWWWWWWW WWWWWWWW WWWW, assigned to Alamogordo AAF, was responsible

for the locating and transportation of the large sections of the

craft.

                    6.      A special radiobiological team accompanied by a SED

and security detail from Sandia Base under orders from Colonel S. V.

HASBROUCK, USA, Armed Forces Special Weapons Project, secured the

immediate area surrounding the crash site. Select scientists from

                                                                  -3-

 

 

                                                        TOP SECRET

                                                              ULTRA

 

                                                              ULTRA

 

 

the General Advisory Committee of the Atomic Energy Commission, most

notably DR. J. ROBERT OPPENHEIMER, was identified at LZ-2 as well as

other members. Among PAPERCLIP specialist identified at LZ-2 were DR.

WERNHER VON BRAUN (Fort Bliss); DR. ERNST STEINHOFF (AMC); and DR.

HUBERTUS STRUGHOLD (AEROMEDICAL LAB, RANDOLPH FIELD).

                    7.      Because of the stringent security measures that were in

place at both crash sites, the team was not able to gain access to the

several locations were wreckage and bodies are being held. CIC member

of the team was able to learn that several bodies were taken to the

hospital at Roswell AAF and others to either Los Alamos, Wright Field,

Patterson AAF, and Randolph Field for security reasons. It is believed

that this dispersion was on the orders of General Thomas Handy, Fourth

Army Hdqrs. Remains of the powerplant were taken to Alamogordo AAF and

Kirtland AAF. Structural debris and assorted parts were taken to AMC,

Wright Field. Other remains were transported across the WSPG to the

storage facilities of the NRL. All this was accomplished by 1730 MST

7 July.

                    8.      On 7 July, Lt. General Nathan Twining arrived at

Alamagordo AAF for a secret meeting with AAF Chief of Staff Spaatz

and to view recovered remains of craft from LZ-2. On 8 July, Twining

visited Kirtland AAF to inspect parts recovered from powerplant. On

9 July, Twining and staff flew to WSPG to inspect pieces of craft

being stored there and on 10 July, made inspection of R&D facilities

at Alamogordo and then returned to Wright Field. It is believed that

Twining and staff is preparing a detailed report of both incidents

and briefings later to follow. It is also the belief    of CIC that

General Eisenhower will see a showing of recoveries sometime in

late August this year. The President was given a limited briefing

 

 

                                                                    -4-

                                                        TOP SECRET

 

 

                                                                ULTRA

 

 

at the Pentagon by AC/S AAF General Hoyt Vandenberg on 10 July. FBI

interest was curtailed and access to stored craft at Los Alamos was

denied upon request of Deputy COS Lt. General Collins. Inquiries to

bases involved was restricted by General Vandenberg during the duration

of recovery efforts. All teletype, telephone and radio transmissions

were monitored for any disclosures of the finds. To maintain secrecy

of site LZ-2, the CO of Roswell AAF was authorized to give a brief

press release to local paper in which 8th AF Hdqrs. promptly denied

rumors that the Army had flying saucers in their possession which

effectively killed press interest. Civilians who might have seen or

handled some of the wreckage, or viewed bodies were detained under the

McNab law until all remaing evidence was secured in restricted bases.

Witnesses were debriefed by CIC and warned of the consequences of

talking to the press. So far, secrecy seems to be working.

                    9.      All civilian and military personnel involved with the

recovery operations had "need to know" access with proper security

clearances. Though several MPs suffered nervous breakdowns resulting in

one committing suicide, MP details from Alamogordo and Kirtland performed

security functions very well. Ground personnel from Sandia experienced

some form of contamination resulting in the deaths of 3 technicians.

The status of the fourth technician is unknown. Autopsies are scheduled

to determine cause of death. CIC has make appropriate security file

entries into dossiers with cross references for future reviews.

                    10.      With the pending approval of JAMES FORRESTAL as new

Secretary of Defense, it is certain that he will be briefed on certain

aspects of the discoveries. The only Cabinet member to date that may

know of the details is Secretary of State Marshall. It has become known

to CIC that some of the recovery operation was shared with Representative

 

 

                                                                  -5-

                                                        TOP SECRET                     

 

 

                                                              ULTRA

 

 

JOHN F. KENNEDY, Massachusetts Democrat elected to Congress in 46. Son of

JOSEPH P. KENNEDY, Commission on Organization of the Executive Branch of

the Government. KENNEDY had limited duty as naval officer assigned to

Naval intelligence during war. It is believed that information was obtained

from source in Congress who is close to Secretary for Air Force.

                    11.      As to the bodies recovered at LZ-2, it appeared that none

of the five crew members survived entry into our atmosphere due to

unknown causes. DR. DETLEV BRONK has been asked to assist in the autopsy

of one well preserved cadaver to be done by    MAJOR CHARLES K. REA. From

what descriptions the team was able to learn and from photographs taken

by intelligence photographers, the occupants appear in most respects

human with some anatomical differences in the head, eyes, hands and feet.

They have a slight build about five feet tall, with grayish-pink skin

color. They have no hair on their bodies and clothed with a tight fitting

flight suit that appears to be fire proof (some of the bodies looked

as if they had been burned on head and the hands). Their overall stature

reminds one of young children. It is believed that there were make and

female genders present, but was hard to distinguish.

                    12.      The most disturbing aspect of this investigation was--

there were other bodies found not far from LZ-1 that looked as if they

had been disected as you would a frog. It is not known if army field

surgons had performed exploratory surgery on these bodies. Animal parts

were reportedly discovered inside the craft at LZ-2 but this cannot be

confirmed. The team has reserved judgement on this issue.

                    13.      Our assessment of this investigation rests on two

assumptions: 1) Either this discovery was an elaborate and well orchestrated

hoax (maybe by the Russians), or; 2) Our country has played host to

 

 

 

                                                                  -6-

                                                        TOP SECRET                 

 

 

                                                          TOP SECRET

                                                                ULTRA

 

beings from another planet.

                    14.      Until more data can be acquired from other intelligence

sources, it is the opinion of the team, that the investigation be expanded

to include sources that might elucidate other possibilities not found by

contemporary science. It is also recommended that appropriate budgets be

allocated to facilitate future assignments that the unit may be called

upon to perform. Until further orders, this investigation will continue.

                                              ________________________

 

The preceding declassified pages are reproduced for authenticity research.

 

The following spelling errors are noted:

Page 2 errors: staions, unitl

Page 3 error: attchment                             

Page 4 error: remaing                             

Page 5: no errors

Page 6 errors: surgons, disected, judgement

 

 

 

 

                                                                -7-

                                                      TOP SECRET

                                                            ULTRA

TOP SECRET

 

ULTRA

TOP SECRET

 

ULTRA

 

 

 

RETYPED for ease of reading :

 

Research and Development

Laboratory

Analytical Report

IJXAD-2B/AO

2 September

SUBJECT Flying Saucer

TO: Commanding General

      Air Materiel Command

    Wright Field

Dayton, Ohio

ATTN: AC/A3-g

Brig. Gen. C. P. Cabell

Headquarters, Army Air Forces

Washington 25, D. C.

1.

As requested by your letter of 16 July 1947 this office has

produced its conclusions on the manufacture, function and possible origin

of the above referenced subject. On-site preliminary study data provided

by personnel of T-2 and T-3, search and recovery team of the AFSWP, 'Paper

Clip' personnel, select personnel of the Army Air Forces Scientific Advisory

Group and personnel of the Atomic Energy Commission Advisory Committee was

utilized in the construction of our analysis.

2.

The analyses of the Office of Research and Development are:

a.

Aerodynamics and design evaluation studies performed by

the Aircraft, Power Plant and Propeller Laboratories of Engineering Division

T-3 personnel, has concluded that some nation has reached a stage of flight

development in which the present ideas are entirely obsolete.

b.

A notable advance in reducing drag and high-lift, wing

load is evident in the "cleaned up" refinement in the extreme. The absence

of riveting and surface over-lapping indicates a "simplistic" concept that

confronts our technology to match the "careful and well-considered compro-

mises in respect to weight, aerodynamic refinement, and design."

c.

The designers have managed to offset Bernouilli's theorem

that allows the "total pressure in a flow" to be less at all points; we can

liken this to the concept of 'conservation of energy' and their negating

friction losses, which would dissipate heat.

d.

The airfoil design of the circular wing is similar to the

NACA 230 series with the exception to the wing plan form and thickness range

requirements. The parasite drag appears to be controlled by the refinement

of the design and elimination of protuberances. The induced drag lessens with

the circular span inversely with the low aspect-ratio of the wing.

e.

The fuselage/hull appears to fall into the seaplane type

in concept by manifesting excellent hydrodynamic characteristics of low

-1-

1

July 29, 2000

10:36 AM

Retyped in 10-point Courier.

This is 9 point Courier

"porpoising" tendencies. Conventional surface controls are absent in the

wing and cabin portions of the recovered sections though what appears to

be tabs or flaps are identified. Because there are no vertical or horizontal

stabilizers on the craft, there are no fore-and-aft positions of the wing

relative to the fuselage/hull. Wing incidence seems to be pre-selected via

an in-flight trim computer to reduce drag attitude when the wing is at the

angle of attack required at high speed and provide stability to lift the

weight of the craft.

Basic ltr fr R&D, to CG, AMC, ATTN HQ, AAF, WASH. D.C., AC/AS-2, MAJIC EYES,

subj "Flying Saucer".

f.

A general description of the craft is presented:

(1) Metallic skin of a high polished finish. A comparison

of AISI H1112 steels indicates that the metals used

to construct the craft exceed structure, chemical

composition and mechanical properties currently under

development. Metal specimens were subjected to AISI

8620, AISI 3140, AISI 4140, AISI E4340, AISI 5140,

AISI 8640, AISI E52100, and AISI 430, 410 and 347

machining tests with negative results.

(2) Craft designed for high altitude flight. Automatic

exhaust orifices were identified. A gyro-controlled

wing stabilizer apparently maintains craft in a hover

mode.

(3) Power plant may consist of a spherical reactor (hydro-

gen isotope type) connected to propulsion motors.

(4) 100 ft. in diameter with central section approximately

30 ft. Central cabin may have three flight decks: top

level for flight control; central section for equipment

and lower section for power plant and landing gear.

Circular wing may have rotating section and adjustable

leading edge.

(5) Top (dome) may have the ability to recede into central

section for high performance operations. Observation

blisters are retract to provide observation top and

bottom of wing.

(6) Construction is based on a 6:1 ratio.

(7) Flight instruments and controls are activated by optical

wave guide fibers similar to glass rods except they are

flexible and have a plastic cladding wrap. All functions

may be operated by touch sensitive or texture sensing

stimuli. Instruments are covered by a plastic plate and

seem to be color coded.

(8) Craft may have all weather navigation capability to

allow 'blind flying'. Possible television viewing used.

-2-

2

July 29, 2000

10:36 AM

Retyped in 10-point Courier.

This is 9 point Courier

 

RETYPED for ease of reading :

 

 

19 SEP 1947

 

 

 

MEMORANDUM FOR THE MILITARY ASSESSMENT OF THE JOINT INTELLIGENCE

COMMITTEE

 

SUBJECT: Examination of Unidentified Disc-like Aircraft near Military

Installations in the State of New Mexico: A Preliminary Report

 

 

1. Pursuant to the recent world events and domestic security

problems within the Atomic Energy Commission, the intelligence reports

of so-called "Flying Saucers" and the intrusion of unkown aircraft over

the most secret defense installations, a classified intelligence project

is warranted. The National Security Act of 1947 established a Central

Intelligence Agency under the National Security Council. When the

Director of Central Intelligence assumes his official responsibilities,

the National Intelligence Authority is abolished the files pertaining to

unidentified aircraft sightings, intelligence personnel and funds of the

Central Intelligence Group will be transferred to the Agency.

 

2. The recovery of unidentified planform aircraft in the state of

New Mexico on 6 July 1947, ten miles northwest of Oscura Peak, and a debris

field 75 miles northwest of the Army's 509th Atomic Bomb Group, Roswell

Army Air Field, is confirmed. A subsequent capture of another similar craft

30 miles east of the Army's Alamogordo Army Air Field on 5 July 1947, has

convinced the Army Air Forces S-2, Army G-2 and Navy ONI, that the craft

and wreckage are not of US manufacture.

 

3. Until a clear directive from the President is issued, there can

be no co-ordinated scientific examination of the objects in question.

Currently, the core material is being secured at the Naval Research

Laboratory hangar facilities at the White Sands Proving Ground, the Sandia

Base Facilities (Armed Forces Special Weapons Project), Alamogordo AAF and

the Aero Medical Research facilities at Randolph Field, Texas.

 

4. The research scientists at the Air Forces Research and Develop-

ment Center, Wright Field, are utilizing their test facilities and a new

biological laboratory in an on-going study program. The offices of the

JRDB, FBI and the State Department are assisting the Joint Intelligence

Committee in acquiring any intelligence from MI5 and MI6 on possible Soviet

long-range reconnaissance aircraft/missile research and development tests.

 

/S/

 

R. H. HILLENKOETTER

Rear Admiral, USN

Director of Central Intelligence

 

TOP SECRET/EYES ONLY

Will continue later...

RETYPED:  
MAJIC EYES ONLY


SUBJECT: MISSION ASSESSMENT OF RECOVERY LENTICULAR AERODYNE

OBmECTS AND IMPLICATIONS IN

PART I INTELLIGENCE ESTIMATE

PART II TECHNICAL EVALUATION

PART III SCIENTIFIC PROBABILITIES

PART IV POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS

PART V NATIONAL SECURITY STRUCTURE



MEMBERS


Captain Charles * Buchanan 
Colonel A. Hobart Ginsburgh 
Captain Richard V Glass 
Carlisle H. Humelsine 
Major General Stephen Chamberlain
Major General George McDonald 
Rear Admiral Paul F. Lee 
Major General Leslie H, Graves 
Brigadier General E.M. Wright 
James S. Lay, Jr. 
Thomas J. Lynch 
Lieutenant General Nathan P Twining

CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS


Dr, Theodore Von Karman 
Dr, J, Robert Oppenheimer 
Dr. James H. Doolittle 
Professor Albert Einstein 





UUZU1ZZ 


5/f 7 injfr 


H , 


GENERAL STATEMENT 


W*t oat b'>ev i>ys , 

On 24 June 1947, there out went over this country’s newswires, with simultaneus broadcast by nationwide radio, a most sensational story.  A civilian pilot by the name of Kenneth Arnold, a businessman             a salesman in fire-fighting equipment, while flying his personal plane on

‘ \re-right it.* eauieaetit. w-n> 


. * saleeaar. .. 

int -ih eersenai Hune or. 



■".ad fscn nine iiso-f'iajjsa , ';aiipss, c i ;.»ery*e#J area e'njetv 
9V craft, flippiue and i'*af>rnw z -.reus; ilea< »kj. ;-,ie 

aircraft, x* cnev were sue-" : it>i :*s * saucer wtuie 
v«v .“ikior**! ' * aefniR ».► *> war**" "■*- 5 * s . . 

v " V** e flashes free t-iear -turi'acee • .■»% ; n r ornaUf 


* -aacai t :’iiUtit.airi}' ; nei I* steee >*r weri t;u«a: ?o •..* :«• 
i v exces* ** . utiy Mp:. ; -le »i iti --a* uues» » *»>•♦ «■ i enj¬ 

oy Army Air Fere* intelligence officers ana K 'Bi agent. So 
l ar, ne nas stuck to -lie stery and. refuses to cauent furt i«» 
regarding nis Righting. Analysis of r.is report conducted ov 
the Intelligence Departaent ef tne Aray Air Farces Air Materiel 
Comaand, suggests that seme kind ef aircraft «ay hare proaoted 
the report as giren by the pilot. 

3- Anether sighting siailar te this one was reported 





the same day ov a Portland prospector nv t.ie name of Fred 

J OlJrJJo*i 

Je.nnson. According to interrogation reoo r* Mr. Jo.nnson clf.i ; 
to haTe observed six to nine disc-snapea objects flying rapldi* 
• ver r.ne Cascade Mountains, ne watched tne objects tnreugn a. 
saaJ i telescooe w.nic.n he used in nin *r*s»eetin*. i\ne'..report, 
r.atrs' trial .e noticed the compass -land osciiated wildlv iron. 
ru> t« side, ina *.ca". tna sooe k-iiu * * «ae.ner. ic dl sturbanc- 
. i asaoci** *ri ■'* * •- • ~ *w -rev 


'■■n Z '■ June, according :.t i nterrosati on. of of a a.* 



way conventional aircraf". 


5>. Numerous cixntinrs »■»??’ #: i i’.ary installations j i. , 

•' '■ '• ■ i 

tne state of New Mexico were investicatea dy Any ' an« liar, 
intelligence offieers. Keoor*. *i wrr- • •rwai’dei to ttilita**- 
- ' ' i rer. c t ''ir: -tor *'--• •** ’ ’ «••• us ' 

“* 43iicf hi*'. aJ’K.y ana s«u» aeronaut. > n. "^se«/ ar. pro*ran." +* - 
vesoonsi d « since ai ) ?’ir • ’'Itr-r a*-- lv so ora mat v 

witn rovernnent agencies ana civilian contractors. 

6. Uo until « July, siachtinrs nave been retorted, no* 
on'lv in tie United States, V\. -- " •* .-^y _ 

tioliand, farasuay, Scandinavia, jreece, and by ships at se* 


7- Of the - ,200 sighting reports collected since 1.944,' 
approximately 200 incidents have proven to be unknown craft ;£?*.•• 
operating at speeds in excess of 1200 MPri and at times attaining 




0020124 



lti'udes u " ;i»j jc ■■ uore aoc-e Tine «art:-. A ce«i»aris«n 

as made wit-i Swedisn Defence *fficin.is el irie repertee 
aeratin* • ira*?*. tr. a se.. 

ntei.j c :iau«rj *f * i3ia *» • , .«. , )t:auinK vi» • 

if restrio*«d air s»ace aver ! *nsi *: \**e Sweet i sir Military bars* 
as* n«t arsv <1 i ■**•'* 1 « v* 

-jvioence i *i j»- far .-eu ;' 1 < .?«•«*•< ' : * tnf «r** *': »• 




0020125 


PNLg 

PART I PROJECT WHITE HOT INTELLIGENCE ESTIMATE {PRELIMINARY) 

•LANDING ZONE NO . 1 

Socorro, New Mexico--The unidentified lenticular-shaped aerodyne 
which has been designated ULAT-1, has been evaluated as a nan. 
air breathing aircraft tf unknown origin. Totally lacking 
conventional wing, fuselage, nacelle, control, and fuel svsirnr 
strongly indicates it is not Russian. Consultation with PapercJir 
specialists concurr. Aerodynamic features exhibited in ULU'-i 
represents a very high degree of engineering and sophistication 
not seen in this country. Diaensional homogeneity study carii-v 
explain how this craft sustains load and lift factors neoeesarx 
for flight. Phe oower olant does not even renotely resemble 
any conventional type now in use. Lacking any discernible intake 
or exhaust features, it is the opinion of AMC and ONH that this 
craft was designed to operate outside of the earth’s ataonoher^* 
The unconventional conclusions reached by nenbers of this fact 
finding nicsion remain tentative at this tine. Some nenbers 
expressed the view that ULAl'-i nay be the product of an advanced 
culture from another planet that is much older than ours and has 
utilised the science and. intellect for interplanetary space 
travel. It is not precisely known if the occupants purposely 
had the objective of exploration out of ouriousity, or with the 
intent of surveying for other reasons. So far, no hostile 
action or intent has been observed since they made their 



0020126 


known. Giren the fact that our atomio bomb t ests 
tion with rockets, and 


ed in New Mexico, could have 

precipitated the events that led to the incident and subsequent 
actions taken by the nilitary. 

Operating under the assumption that tne fallen object 
was a long-range Russian reconnaissance platform collecting 
aerial phc*. irrai* -:i r inteU i.wioe data, nilitary intelligent 
personnel were instructed o* secure the oralt, debris ana uu 
occupants as rapidly as possible* *.cncerns «\cx' pessit-*t 
exposure to civilians of unknown biological and cneaical agents 
dictated tne quarantine measures taicen. ,'tadiation hazard? . 
assumed and appropriate protective measures were taken as wstt* 

In the interest of National Security priorities it war 
necesrarv to detain civilian witnesses for interrogatin' to 
satisfy intelligence requiensnts, and quash rumors that . 

alert potential espionage agents known to be in the vicinity. 

Several bodies were discovered. Because on-site 
medical personnel were unsure of the physiological and bis 
nake up of the occupants, special preparations and preservation 
methods were employed. Autopsy information obtained so far 
suggests that the oocupants mimic the featuers associated with 


■-U4J Ull.H 


Outwardly, they appear human-like with b ut one ^ 
autopsy notes mentio n a rarely observed^jj^jj^^ 
present which supports the 
elngs"originate from another planet. 









0020127 


TECHNICAL EVALUATION (MELIMINARY) 


\IU* 1 - * 

J. u,„„ Close exaalnation of toe exterior surfaces c, 
the craft's fuselaee, petallur*ists found the skin to be of •= 
ferrous octal white In color. The aetal exhibits all the 
characteristics of nl F n-*ra*e stee.. at was deter.ined Ma¬ 
ths steel was cold-ferned and boat.treated. tensile. steneM 


was estimated In excess of - 50 , 001 - sounds per square Inch. 
Shear tests dive the aetal a durability ratine above 175,00- 
sounds rer square inch, -akinr this fuselaee extreaeiy strew- 


and neat resistant. 

2 . Static and aressure flow si.ulati.ns were l.w«»irc 
The low profile rati, of 6 -t.-l Sites the aerodyne a *reat 
advantape in overcame the restrictions of tne boundary 
layer effect in nieh perfernance operations. 

3 . Spar fiances are constructed in unusual kine.at.c 
desirn w-ilcn is believed to allow strain relief at supersonic 
speeds. Mere -ere no visible siens of plate-stiffeners 
mere were ne fasteners, weld, rivets, or fittincs, holdin, 
the fuselage together. 

4- Lack of Wines, flaps, stabilisers, and surface 
* coritrel ^features, Bursts that the craft is a liftine bod.v ■ 
5. There are ne air intakes or exhaust. 


6. There are ne cables 


) 




0020128 



7. There are no identifiable electronics (wiring, 


ignition, lights, instrument, compartment, engine, motors, 
vacuw.t tubes, solenoids, generators, heaters, etc.) 

8 . The power plant (severely da maged » h,P.. u * ' 

neutronic engine. "p yv.'gTetecTe^^^^^ 

TSav^Ja^r and deuteri urn \ light hydrogen) elements appear*- • 
be the primarv ignitor. * series of coils and heavy magnets 
connected to tne neutronic engine ->i*x an 'odd.lv arranged grow:: 
of electrodes? (aetai not; vet. identified j appears to oe t,-.-- 


or war. examines. It i*« encase. 


in a sure aluminum capsuir direct J y undernea* - tee main ei r 
compartment. There is a small exnaust aperture attached * ta¬ 
nas wnai can be on]v described as an nelicoid mechanisa 
The auxililary motor may 


articulated. 

«. Navigation and engine, contols wav be activates ;. 
tactic manipulation. viewing may have oeen achieved by 
form of television imagery. Symbolic notation appears to N- 
tne form of flight and control indicators. flat panels ji 
unknown netal has been suggested as a device associated with 
the operation ©f tne aerodyne was discovered and analyze:: . 
It* s mode of operation and purpose is unknown. 

The absence of provisions, berthing compartments and 
storage areas, suggest the notion that this craft may be a 
short range reoonnaissanoe platform. The only recognizable 


MAJIC. 



K leal 


I'«.*»*,i'*r icii.rji. ‘ t. 


of is 1' bdJ 



'■ ,l . 'V* 











being tested by the Army or the Navy for extreme altitude 
experiments. Since temperature and humidity factors for tr.c 
occupants are unknown, it is impossible to determine i: 
decompression and temperature change affected circulatory 
and dexterity functions. Although it is believed tne occuoanr.>; 
may have been overcened by some yet to be discovered pollutant 
noxious fumes originating inside tne craft. 

At-. notation or possible rapid oscillation couii utir 
been a contributing factor in »]J.oi error. it is not know’ 
if organic effects played a oar + p’-'V? 1 " -trice since medical 
data is non-existant in wnicn to raakt any .Vudgemem ar lg ;.n*. 
exact cause of death or machine failure. 

I*’. rhe most probable cause out forward to date to- ^ 
the crash is believed to be excessive acceleration combiner 
with steep descent. ine seating arrangement was transversely 
designed about the vertical axis of tne occupants in a eositi re¬ 
direction of fliaht. i'he panels removed froa. tne oral * 
resemble tne ones taken from the occupants, suggesting a 
syabionic relationship between operator and the functions of 
the aerodyne’s operation. A very tentative working theory 
was expressed by the scientific members of the inspection team 
t-iat pilot-aerodyne interaction may occur via electronic- 
nonword symbols percieved through the 'tactile manipulation 
of the fingers, feeding impulses to the brain and visa versal 
All of which may suggest a non-inert quality of the materials 
existent as being a product of artificial intelligence. . 



0020132 



18. The following elements were analysed and found to 
exist in the small neutronic power plant that was found Inside 
ULAT-1: 

a. UF6 in metallic form; 

b. hydrogen-fluoride gas; 

o. water and uranium tetrafluoride; 

d. powdered magnesium and potassium chlorate; 

e. metal similar to lead with a chocolate brown 
color; 

f. U-235 in metallic form; 

g. plastic-like material similar to NE 102; 

h. Beryllium; 

i. pure aluminium; 

h. Thorium isotope material; 

j. Plutonium powder. 

If. Scientists from Los Alamos and Sandia Base were 
alarmed that the power plant could possibly function as a 
bomb if the elements described above were processed in similar 
fashion as was done for the lens and shotgun detonators. This 
originally was the first conclusion. After further evaluation, 
it was determined that since no recognizable firing oircuits 
were identified, the threat of detonation did not exist. 

20. The only evidence of circuitry found on the motor 
was thin plastic-like sheets fashioned like platters emossed 
on the exterior of the spherically-shaped casing coated by a 
thin film of pure silver. Under high power magnification it 
was observed a series of fine grid-like lines intersecting 
groups, of dots arranged in circular patterns. -* 



0020133 



PART III SCIENTIFIC PROBABILITIES 


1. Based ©n all available evidence collected from 
recovered exhibits currently under study by AHC, AFSWP, NEPA, 
AEC, ONR, NACA, JM>B, RAND, USAAF.SAG, and MIT, are deemed 
extraterrestrial in nature. This conclusion was reached 


as a result of comparisons of artifacts 

discovery in 1*41. The technology is outs?S^tne scope of 
US science, even that of German rocket and aircraft development. 

2. Interplanetary space travel is possible provided 


adequate funding, necessary resources are made available, 
and national interest is piqued. 

3. Our solar system is not unique. Chances are ^ 

favorable for intelligent life on ether planets notwithstanding 


similar development not unlike our own. 

4. Being that our culture is relatively young (in 
relation t© the cosmic scale), it is possible that ether 
cultures may have developed faster, or are much older and 
have avoided the pitfalls common in our historical and 


scientific development. 

5. Human origins may net be constrained to one 
planet. Our genus may be found among solar systems similar 
to our own. 

6. The laws ©f physics and genetics may have a 
genesis in a higher, structured order than once previously 


thought. 
MA.TT fl -K3H 


PAST IV POLITICAL CONSIDESATIOHS 


1. Given the existing political climate in the US 
and the unstable conditions in Europe, it is the considered 
opinion ef the members, that if the Administration went 
publio with the information as found in this report now, the 
results would be damaging, even fatal to the world political 
structure as it now exists. The following considerations 
were reviewed and debated which led the mission to the 
following opinions: 

-- a. Public trust of the political institutions 

may be eroded and possibly be held in disrepute. 

b. A complete revisioning make take place among 
institutions of higher learning, thus calling 
into question the certainty of scientific 
knowldge. 


c. The ability of the Armed Forces to secure 

National Security would be put in Jeopardy and 
possibly lead to undue publio fear and disorder. 



e. History and religion in the political context 
would probably suffer the most damage causing 
unprecedented upheaval in social and 
psychological well-being. 

f. Political repercussions may occur in our 
diplomatic efforts of containing the Communist 
threat to our democratic interests. 

g. If such an announcement were made by the 
current Administration, it could be percieved 
by opposing party as a trick, laying open to 
accusations of unethetioal posturing and 
manipulation of the public's mind. 





FAar V NATIONAL SECURITY STRUCTURE 

With the passage of the National Security Act of 


unprecedented 

situation with regard to maintaining seorecy related to the 
information contained in this report. 

In the early months of 1*42, up until the present, 
intrusions of unidentified aircraft have occaisionally been 
documented, but there has been no serious investigations by 
the intelligence arm of the Government. Even the recovery 
case of 1*41 did not create a unified intelligence effort 
to exploit possible technological gains with the exception 
of the Manhattan Project. We now have an opportunity to 
extend our technology beyond the threshold that we have 


em technologica 


greater challenge, that of learning the intent of such a 
presence. There are questions that remain unanswered, ; 
such as: What forces face us? What kind of defense do we 
have? Where do they come from and what kind of weapons do 
they possess? Where can we stage our forces in advance, 


How wide a front? How 


many oraft can we expect? And 








The members of the mission are prepared, to submit.! a 
seperate report on Just this problem alone. And it would take 
a dozen volumes to explain how these problems should be met. 

Our only point, however, is that a combined intelligence and 
research operation would be a vast, intricate, covertly 
planned marshalling of resources, human and material, to 
solve a specifio, clearly defined problem. 

We have to find effective methods of persuasion with 
other government agenoies without creating a sense of impending 
doom. The first task is to carefully appraise the problem. 

The second is to evaluate the known resources anfl probable 
strategy of the visitors. The third is to inventory our own 
ways and means, ascertain how much resources we can bring to 
bear, and how fast. The third is to devise our strategic 
plan. And last is to work out with infinite pains the tactical 
details and the myriad secondary problems of funding and 
security. 

It is the unaminous opinion of the members that 
Operation MAJESTIC TWELVE be a fully funded and operational 
TOP SECRET Research and Development intelligence gathering 
agency. It is also recommended that a panel of experts be 
appointed to chair and oversee the functions and operations 
of said agency. It's members should have appropriate security 



Council, the Pentagon, 



0020137 



Joint Intelligence Committee, Joint Intelligence 
Objectives Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, Atomic Energy 
Commission, Joint Research and Development Board, Army Security 
Agency, and the National Advis ory.Committee on Aeron a utics . 

are highlighted: 


1. Propeller-driven bomber aircraft and jet engines, 
armed with conventional and atomic bombs. 


2 . 

3. 

4. 

5. 


Jet fighter aircraft, including some of super¬ 
sonic speed, armed with rockets and guns. 


Propeller-driven aircraft, valued for their 
endurance. 


Guided anti-aircraft missiles, and radar-guided 
anti-aircraft guns. 


Short and medium-range guided missiles. Drone 
aircraft. 


6. Atomic charges, in bombs, missiles and torpedoes. 

In the arena of nuclear weapons we feel there is a 
cert ain ad vantage to be gained 
It is speculated 

and miniture circuitry were introduced into the proposed 
hydrogen bomb program, it would give US Strategic Air Forces 
a great deterance capability over the Russians. Current 
studies at MIT of micro-electronics taken from ULAT-1 may 
give us the strategic advantage so desired. It is strongly 
recommended that funding be allocated in this area. 

There is a good chance that the Russians may try to 
make use of the flying saucer scare by public news media 


0020138 


and diplomatic means of a technological breakthrough in 
aircraft and missile development. We feel that such a 
disclosure would most certainly cause great embarrassment L/> 
our elected officials and to the military, not to mention 
the panic felt by the oitixenry. To counter such a threat, 
it is recommended that a counterintelligence program be 
drawn up and held in abeyance if at such time the_situation 
should present Itself. It might be suggested that we should 
make a preempted use of these objects for the purpose of 
psychological warfare once the true nature of these objects 
are known and understood. 

To further assist and aid all MAJCOM in the US and 
overseas, it is recommended that a standard intelligence 
reporting system be implemented through standard reporting 
ohannels with technical data forwarding instructions. At 
present, there are no specific intelligence guidlines 
available to military commanders in dealing with sightings 
and material evidence collection. It would be advisable for 
the respective Secretaries of the Armed Forces to devise a 
security policy of plausible denial, if and when the public 
becomes aware of the reality ©f these objects and the 
interest of the military of such incidents. 

In conclusion, for reasons of national security and 
the public well being, the US must be perceived as being the 
top of the heap, and every effort must be made to insure 
that there is, and never has been, a threat to the country. 

=========================

RETYPED for ease of reading :

=========================

 

MAJIC EYES ONLY

SUBJECT: MISSION ASSESSMENT OF RECOVERY LENTICULAR AERODYNE

OBmECTS AND IMPLICATIONS IN

PART I INTELLIGENCE ESTIMATE

PART II TECHNICAL EVALUATION

PART III SCIENTIFIC PROBABILITIES

PART IV POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS

PART V NATIONAL SECURITY STRUCTURE



MEMBERS


Captain Charles * Buchanan 
Colonel A. Hobart Ginsburgh 
Captain Richard V Glass 
Carlisle H. Humelsine 
Major General Stephen Chamberlain
Major General George McDonald 
Rear Admiral Paul F. Lee 
Major General Leslie H, Graves 
Brigadier General E.M. Wright 
James S. Lay, Jr. 
Thomas J. Lynch 
Lieutenant General Nathan P Twining

CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS


Dr, Theodore Von Karman 
Dr, J, Robert Oppenheimer 
Dr. James H. Doolittle 
Professor Albert Einstein 





UUZU1ZZ 


5/f 7 injfr 


H , 


GENERAL STATEMENT 


W*t oat b'>ev i>ys , 

On 24 June 1947, there out went over this country’s newswires, with simultaneus broadcast by nationwide radio, a most sensational story.  A civilian pilot by the name of Kenneth Arnold, a businessman             a salesman in fire-fighting equipment, while flying his personal plane on

‘ \re-right it.* eauieaetit. w-n> 


. * saleeaar. .. 

int -ih eersenai Hune or. 



■".ad fscn nine iiso-f'iajjsa , ';aiipss, c i ;.»ery*e#J area e'njetv 
9V craft, flippiue and i'*af>rnw z -.reus; ilea< »kj. ;-,ie 

aircraft, x* cnev were sue-" : it>i :*s * saucer wtuie 
v«v .“ikior**! ' * aefniR ».► *> war**" "■*- 5 * s . . 

v " V** e flashes free t-iear -turi'acee • .■»% ; n r ornaUf 


* -aacai t :’iiUtit.airi}' ; nei I* steee >*r weri t;u«a: ?o •..* :«• 
i v exces* ** . utiy Mp:. ; -le »i iti --a* uues» » *»>•♦ «■ i enj¬ 

oy Army Air Fere* intelligence officers ana K 'Bi agent. So 
l ar, ne nas stuck to -lie stery and. refuses to cauent furt i«» 
regarding nis Righting. Analysis of r.is report conducted ov 
the Intelligence Departaent ef tne Aray Air Farces Air Materiel 
Comaand, suggests that seme kind ef aircraft «ay hare proaoted 
the report as giren by the pilot. 

3- Anether sighting siailar te this one was reported 





the same day ov a Portland prospector nv t.ie name of Fred 

J OlJrJJo*i 

Je.nnson. According to interrogation reoo r* Mr. Jo.nnson clf.i ; 
to haTe observed six to nine disc-snapea objects flying rapldi* 
• ver r.ne Cascade Mountains, ne watched tne objects tnreugn a. 
saaJ i telescooe w.nic.n he used in nin *r*s»eetin*. i\ne'..report, 
r.atrs' trial .e noticed the compass -land osciiated wildlv iron. 
ru> t« side, ina *.ca". tna sooe k-iiu * * «ae.ner. ic dl sturbanc- 
. i asaoci** *ri ■'* * •- • ~ *w -rev 


'■■n Z '■ June, according :.t i nterrosati on. of of a a.* 



way conventional aircraf". 


5>. Numerous cixntinrs »■»??’ #: i i’.ary installations j i. , 

•' '■ '• ■ i 

tne state of New Mexico were investicatea dy Any ' an« liar, 
intelligence offieers. Keoor*. *i wrr- • •rwai’dei to ttilita**- 
- ' ' i rer. c t ''ir: -tor *'--• •** ’ ’ «••• us ' 

“* 43iicf hi*'. aJ’K.y ana s«u» aeronaut. > n. "^se«/ ar. pro*ran." +* - 
vesoonsi d « since ai ) ?’ir • ’'Itr-r a*-- lv so ora mat v 

witn rovernnent agencies ana civilian contractors. 

6. Uo until « July, siachtinrs nave been retorted, no* 
on'lv in tie United States, V\. -- " •* .-^y _ 

tioliand, farasuay, Scandinavia, jreece, and by ships at se* 


7- Of the - ,200 sighting reports collected since 1.944,' 
approximately 200 incidents have proven to be unknown craft ;£?*.•• 
operating at speeds in excess of 1200 MPri and at times attaining 




0020124 



lti'udes u " ;i»j jc ■■ uore aoc-e Tine «art:-. A ce«i»aris«n 

as made wit-i Swedisn Defence *fficin.is el irie repertee 
aeratin* • ira*?*. tr. a se.. 

ntei.j c :iau«rj *f * i3ia *» • , .«. , )t:auinK vi» • 

if restrio*«d air s»ace aver ! *nsi *: \**e Sweet i sir Military bars* 
as* n«t arsv <1 i ■**•'* 1 « v* 

-jvioence i *i j»- far .-eu ;' 1 < .?«•«*•< ' : * tnf «r** *': »• 




0020125 


PNLg 

PART I PROJECT WHITE HOT INTELLIGENCE ESTIMATE {PRELIMINARY) 

•LANDING ZONE NO . 1 

Socorro, New Mexico--The unidentified lenticular-shaped aerodyne 
which has been designated ULAT-1, has been evaluated as a nan. 
air breathing aircraft tf unknown origin. Totally lacking 
conventional wing, fuselage, nacelle, control, and fuel svsirnr 
strongly indicates it is not Russian. Consultation with PapercJir 
specialists concurr. Aerodynamic features exhibited in ULU'-i 
represents a very high degree of engineering and sophistication 
not seen in this country. Diaensional homogeneity study carii-v 
explain how this craft sustains load and lift factors neoeesarx 
for flight. Phe oower olant does not even renotely resemble 
any conventional type now in use. Lacking any discernible intake 
or exhaust features, it is the opinion of AMC and ONH that this 
craft was designed to operate outside of the earth’s ataonoher^* 
The unconventional conclusions reached by nenbers of this fact 
finding nicsion remain tentative at this tine. Some nenbers 
expressed the view that ULAl'-i nay be the product of an advanced 
culture from another planet that is much older than ours and has 
utilised the science and. intellect for interplanetary space 
travel. It is not precisely known if the occupants purposely 
had the objective of exploration out of ouriousity, or with the 
intent of surveying for other reasons. So far, no hostile 
action or intent has been observed since they made their 



0020126 


known. Giren the fact that our atomio bomb t ests 
tion with rockets, and 


ed in New Mexico, could have 

precipitated the events that led to the incident and subsequent 
actions taken by the nilitary. 

Operating under the assumption that tne fallen object 
was a long-range Russian reconnaissance platform collecting 
aerial phc*. irrai* -:i r inteU i.wioe data, nilitary intelligent 
personnel were instructed o* secure the oralt, debris ana uu 
occupants as rapidly as possible* *.cncerns «\cx' pessit-*t 
exposure to civilians of unknown biological and cneaical agents 
dictated tne quarantine measures taicen. ,'tadiation hazard? . 
assumed and appropriate protective measures were taken as wstt* 

In the interest of National Security priorities it war 
necesrarv to detain civilian witnesses for interrogatin' to 
satisfy intelligence requiensnts, and quash rumors that . 

alert potential espionage agents known to be in the vicinity. 

Several bodies were discovered. Because on-site 
medical personnel were unsure of the physiological and bis 
nake up of the occupants, special preparations and preservation 
methods were employed. Autopsy information obtained so far 
suggests that the oocupants mimic the featuers associated with 


■-U4J Ull.H 


Outwardly, they appear human-like with b ut one ^ 
autopsy notes mentio n a rarely observed^jj^jj^^ 
present which supports the 
elngs"originate from another planet. 









0020127 


TECHNICAL EVALUATION (MELIMINARY) 


\IU* 1 - * 

J. u,„„ Close exaalnation of toe exterior surfaces c, 
the craft's fuselaee, petallur*ists found the skin to be of •= 
ferrous octal white In color. The aetal exhibits all the 
characteristics of nl F n-*ra*e stee.. at was deter.ined Ma¬ 
ths steel was cold-ferned and boat.treated. tensile. steneM 


was estimated In excess of - 50 , 001 - sounds per square Inch. 
Shear tests dive the aetal a durability ratine above 175,00- 
sounds rer square inch, -akinr this fuselaee extreaeiy strew- 


and neat resistant. 

2 . Static and aressure flow si.ulati.ns were l.w«»irc 
The low profile rati, of 6 -t.-l Sites the aerodyne a *reat 
advantape in overcame the restrictions of tne boundary 
layer effect in nieh perfernance operations. 

3 . Spar fiances are constructed in unusual kine.at.c 
desirn w-ilcn is believed to allow strain relief at supersonic 
speeds. Mere -ere no visible siens of plate-stiffeners 
mere were ne fasteners, weld, rivets, or fittincs, holdin, 
the fuselage together. 

4- Lack of Wines, flaps, stabilisers, and surface 
* coritrel ^features, Bursts that the craft is a liftine bod.v ■ 
5. There are ne air intakes or exhaust. 


6. There are ne cables 


) 




0020128 



7. There are no identifiable electronics (wiring, 


ignition, lights, instrument, compartment, engine, motors, 
vacuw.t tubes, solenoids, generators, heaters, etc.) 

8 . The power plant (severely da maged » h,P.. u * ' 

neutronic engine. "p yv.'gTetecTe^^^^^ 

TSav^Ja^r and deuteri urn \ light hydrogen) elements appear*- • 
be the primarv ignitor. * series of coils and heavy magnets 
connected to tne neutronic engine ->i*x an 'odd.lv arranged grow:: 
of electrodes? (aetai not; vet. identified j appears to oe t,-.-- 


or war. examines. It i*« encase. 


in a sure aluminum capsuir direct J y undernea* - tee main ei r 
compartment. There is a small exnaust aperture attached * ta¬ 
nas wnai can be on]v described as an nelicoid mechanisa 
The auxililary motor may 


articulated. 

«. Navigation and engine, contols wav be activates ;. 
tactic manipulation. viewing may have oeen achieved by 
form of television imagery. Symbolic notation appears to N- 
tne form of flight and control indicators. flat panels ji 
unknown netal has been suggested as a device associated with 
the operation ©f tne aerodyne was discovered and analyze:: . 
It* s mode of operation and purpose is unknown. 

The absence of provisions, berthing compartments and 
storage areas, suggest the notion that this craft may be a 
short range reoonnaissanoe platform. The only recognizable 


MAJIC. 



K leal 


I'«.*»*,i'*r icii.rji. ‘ t. 


of is 1' bdJ 



'■ ,l . 'V* 











being tested by the Army or the Navy for extreme altitude 
experiments. Since temperature and humidity factors for tr.c 
occupants are unknown, it is impossible to determine i: 
decompression and temperature change affected circulatory 
and dexterity functions. Although it is believed tne occuoanr.>; 
may have been overcened by some yet to be discovered pollutant 
noxious fumes originating inside tne craft. 

At-. notation or possible rapid oscillation couii utir 
been a contributing factor in »]J.oi error. it is not know’ 
if organic effects played a oar + p’-'V? 1 " -trice since medical 
data is non-existant in wnicn to raakt any .Vudgemem ar lg ;.n*. 
exact cause of death or machine failure. 

I*’. rhe most probable cause out forward to date to- ^ 
the crash is believed to be excessive acceleration combiner 
with steep descent. ine seating arrangement was transversely 
designed about the vertical axis of tne occupants in a eositi re¬ 
direction of fliaht. i'he panels removed froa. tne oral * 
resemble tne ones taken from the occupants, suggesting a 
syabionic relationship between operator and the functions of 
the aerodyne’s operation. A very tentative working theory 
was expressed by the scientific members of the inspection team 
t-iat pilot-aerodyne interaction may occur via electronic- 
nonword symbols percieved through the 'tactile manipulation 
of the fingers, feeding impulses to the brain and visa versal 
All of which may suggest a non-inert quality of the materials 
existent as being a product of artificial intelligence. . 



0020132 



18. The following elements were analysed and found to 
exist in the small neutronic power plant that was found Inside 
ULAT-1: 

a. UF6 in metallic form; 

b. hydrogen-fluoride gas; 

o. water and uranium tetrafluoride; 

d. powdered magnesium and potassium chlorate; 

e. metal similar to lead with a chocolate brown 
color; 

f. U-235 in metallic form; 

g. plastic-like material similar to NE 102; 

h. Beryllium; 

i. pure aluminium; 

h. Thorium isotope material; 

j. Plutonium powder. 

If. Scientists from Los Alamos and Sandia Base were 
alarmed that the power plant could possibly function as a 
bomb if the elements described above were processed in similar 
fashion as was done for the lens and shotgun detonators. This 
originally was the first conclusion. After further evaluation, 
it was determined that since no recognizable firing oircuits 
were identified, the threat of detonation did not exist. 

20. The only evidence of circuitry found on the motor 
was thin plastic-like sheets fashioned like platters emossed 
on the exterior of the spherically-shaped casing coated by a 
thin film of pure silver. Under high power magnification it 
was observed a series of fine grid-like lines intersecting 
groups, of dots arranged in circular patterns. -* 



0020133 



PART III SCIENTIFIC PROBABILITIES 


1. Based ©n all available evidence collected from 
recovered exhibits currently under study by AHC, AFSWP, NEPA, 
AEC, ONR, NACA, JM>B, RAND, USAAF.SAG, and MIT, are deemed 
extraterrestrial in nature. This conclusion was reached 


as a result of comparisons of artifacts 

discovery in 1*41. The technology is outs?S^tne scope of 
US science, even that of German rocket and aircraft development. 

2. Interplanetary space travel is possible provided 


adequate funding, necessary resources are made available, 
and national interest is piqued. 

3. Our solar system is not unique. Chances are ^ 

favorable for intelligent life on ether planets notwithstanding 


similar development not unlike our own. 

4. Being that our culture is relatively young (in 
relation t© the cosmic scale), it is possible that ether 
cultures may have developed faster, or are much older and 
have avoided the pitfalls common in our historical and 


scientific development. 

5. Human origins may net be constrained to one 
planet. Our genus may be found among solar systems similar 
to our own. 

6. The laws ©f physics and genetics may have a 
genesis in a higher, structured order than once previously 


thought. 
MA.TT fl -K3H 


PAST IV POLITICAL CONSIDESATIOHS 


1. Given the existing political climate in the US 
and the unstable conditions in Europe, it is the considered 
opinion ef the members, that if the Administration went 
publio with the information as found in this report now, the 
results would be damaging, even fatal to the world political 
structure as it now exists. The following considerations 
were reviewed and debated which led the mission to the 
following opinions: 

-- a. Public trust of the political institutions 

may be eroded and possibly be held in disrepute. 

b. A complete revisioning make take place among 
institutions of higher learning, thus calling 
into question the certainty of scientific 
knowldge. 


c. The ability of the Armed Forces to secure 

National Security would be put in Jeopardy and 
possibly lead to undue publio fear and disorder. 



e. History and religion in the political context 
would probably suffer the most damage causing 
unprecedented upheaval in social and 
psychological well-being. 

f. Political repercussions may occur in our 
diplomatic efforts of containing the Communist 
threat to our democratic interests. 

g. If such an announcement were made by the 
current Administration, it could be percieved 
by opposing party as a trick, laying open to 
accusations of unethetioal posturing and 
manipulation of the public's mind. 





FAar V NATIONAL SECURITY STRUCTURE 

With the passage of the National Security Act of 


unprecedented 

situation with regard to maintaining seorecy related to the 
information contained in this report. 

In the early months of 1*42, up until the present, 
intrusions of unidentified aircraft have occaisionally been 
documented, but there has been no serious investigations by 
the intelligence arm of the Government. Even the recovery 
case of 1*41 did not create a unified intelligence effort 
to exploit possible technological gains with the exception 
of the Manhattan Project. We now have an opportunity to 
extend our technology beyond the threshold that we have 


em technologica 


greater challenge, that of learning the intent of such a 
presence. There are questions that remain unanswered, ; 
such as: What forces face us? What kind of defense do we 
have? Where do they come from and what kind of weapons do 
they possess? Where can we stage our forces in advance, 


How wide a front? How 


many oraft can we expect? And 








The members of the mission are prepared, to submit.! a 
seperate report on Just this problem alone. And it would take 
a dozen volumes to explain how these problems should be met. 

Our only point, however, is that a combined intelligence and 
research operation would be a vast, intricate, covertly 
planned marshalling of resources, human and material, to 
solve a specifio, clearly defined problem. 

We have to find effective methods of persuasion with 
other government agenoies without creating a sense of impending 
doom. The first task is to carefully appraise the problem. 

The second is to evaluate the known resources anfl probable 
strategy of the visitors. The third is to inventory our own 
ways and means, ascertain how much resources we can bring to 
bear, and how fast. The third is to devise our strategic 
plan. And last is to work out with infinite pains the tactical 
details and the myriad secondary problems of funding and 
security. 

It is the unaminous opinion of the members that 
Operation MAJESTIC TWELVE be a fully funded and operational 
TOP SECRET Research and Development intelligence gathering 
agency. It is also recommended that a panel of experts be 
appointed to chair and oversee the functions and operations 
of said agency. It's members should have appropriate security 



Council, the Pentagon, 



0020137 



Joint Intelligence Committee, Joint Intelligence 
Objectives Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, Atomic Energy 
Commission, Joint Research and Development Board, Army Security 
Agency, and the National Advis ory.Committee on Aeron a utics . 

are highlighted: 


1. Propeller-driven bomber aircraft and jet engines, 
armed with conventional and atomic bombs. 


2 . 

3. 

4. 

5. 


Jet fighter aircraft, including some of super¬ 
sonic speed, armed with rockets and guns. 


Propeller-driven aircraft, valued for their 
endurance. 


Guided anti-aircraft missiles, and radar-guided 
anti-aircraft guns. 


Short and medium-range guided missiles. Drone 
aircraft. 


6. Atomic charges, in bombs, missiles and torpedoes. 

In the arena of nuclear weapons we feel there is a 
cert ain ad vantage to be gained 
It is speculated 

and miniture circuitry were introduced into the proposed 
hydrogen bomb program, it would give US Strategic Air Forces 
a great deterance capability over the Russians. Current 
studies at MIT of micro-electronics taken from ULAT-1 may 
give us the strategic advantage so desired. It is strongly 
recommended that funding be allocated in this area. 

There is a good chance that the Russians may try to 
make use of the flying saucer scare by public news media 


0020138 


and diplomatic means of a technological breakthrough in 
aircraft and missile development. We feel that such a 
disclosure would most certainly cause great embarrassment L/> 
our elected officials and to the military, not to mention 
the panic felt by the oitixenry. To counter such a threat, 
it is recommended that a counterintelligence program be 
drawn up and held in abeyance if at such time the_situation 
should present Itself. It might be suggested that we should 
make a preempted use of these objects for the purpose of 
psychological warfare once the true nature of these objects 
are known and understood. 

To further assist and aid all MAJCOM in the US and 
overseas, it is recommended that a standard intelligence 
reporting system be implemented through standard reporting 
ohannels with technical data forwarding instructions. At 
present, there are no specific intelligence guidlines 
available to military commanders in dealing with sightings 
and material evidence collection. It would be advisable for 
the respective Secretaries of the Armed Forces to devise a 
security policy of plausible denial, if and when the public 
becomes aware of the reality ©f these objects and the 
interest of the military of such incidents. 

In conclusion, for reasons of national security and 
the public well being, the US must be perceived as being the 
top of the heap, and every effort must be made to insure 
that there is, and never has been, a threat to the country. 

 

Redhot retyped.odt

[Externet]

Just in case, there is a bunch of old acronyms .  MAJIC is supposedly 

Some sources show as MAJI-controlled.

Some say Majestic-twelve controlled.

 

RETYPED :

BRIEFING DOCUMENT: OPERATION MAJESTIC 12 PREPARED FOR PRESIDENT-ELECT DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER: (EYES ONLY) 18 NOVEMBER, 1952   WARNING: This is a TOP SECRET - EYES ONLY document containing compartmentalized information essential to the national security of the United States. EYES ONLY ACCESS to the material herein is strictly limited to those possessing Majestic-12 clearance level. Reproduction in any form or the taking of written or mechanically transcribed notes is strictly forbidden.   EYES ONLY T52-EXEMPT (E)

Page 2

SUBJECT: OPERATION MAJESTIC-12 PRELIMINARY BRIEFING FOR PRESIDENT-ELECT EISENHOWER. DOCUMENT PREPARED 18 NOVEMBER, 1952. BRIEFING OFFICER: ADM. ROSCOE H. HILLENKOETTER (MJ-1) NOTE: This document has been prepared as a preliminary briefing only. It should be regarded as introductory to a full operations briefing intended to follow. * * * * * * OPERATION MAJESTIC-12 is a TOP SECRET Research and Development/ Intelligence operation responsible directly and only to the President of the United States. Operations of the project are carried out under control of the Majestic-12 (Majic-12) Group which was established by special classified executive order of President Truman on 24 September, 1947, upon recommendation by Dr. Vannevar Bush and Secretary James Forrestal. (See Attachment "A".) Members of the Majestic-12 Group were designated as follows:             Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter             Dr. Vannevar Bush             Secy. James V. Forrestal             Gen. Nathan F. Twining             Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg             Dr. Detlev Bronk             Dr. Jerome Hunsaker             Mr. Sidney W. Souers             Mr. Gordon Gray             Dr. Donald Menzel             Gen. Robert M. Montague             Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner The death of Secretary Forrestal on 22 May, 1949, created a vacancy which remained unfilled until 01 August, 1950, upon which date Gen. Walter B. Smith was designated as permanent replacement.

Page 3

On 24 June, 1947, a civilian pilot, flying over the Cascade Mountains in the State of Washington observed nine flying disc-shaped aircraft travelling in formation at a high rate of speed. Although this was not the first known sighting of such objects, it was the first to gain widespread attention in the public media. Hundreds of reports of sightings of similar objects followed. Many of these came from highly credible military and civilian sources. These reports res- ulted in independent efforts by several different elements of the military to ascertain the nature and purpose of these objects in the interests of national defense. A number of witnesses were interviewed and there were several unsuccessful attempts to utilize aircraft in efforts to pursue reported discs in flight. Public reaction bordered on near hysteria at times. In spite of these efforts, little of substance was learned about the objects until a local rancher reported that one had crashed in a remote region of New Mexico located approx- imately seventy-five miles northwest of Roswell Army Air Base (now Walker Field). On 07 July, 1947, a secret operation was begun to assure recovery of the wreckage of this object for scientific study. During the course of this operation, aerial reconnaissance discovered that four small human-like beings had apparently ejected from the craft at some point before it exploded. These had fallen to earth about two miles east of the wreckage site. All four were dead and badly decomposed due to action by predators and exposure to the elements during the approx- imately one week time period which had elapsed before their discovery. A special scientific team took charge of removing these bodies for study. (See Attachment "C".) The wreckage of the craft was also removed to several different locations. (See Attachment "B".) Civilian and military witnesses in the area were debriefed, and news reporters were given the effective cover story that the object had been a misguided weather research balloon.

Page 4

A covert analytical effort organized by Gen. Twining and Dr. Bush acting on the direct orders of the President, res- ulted in a preliminary consensus (19 September, 1947) that the disc was most likely a short range reconnaissance craft. This conclusion was based for the most part on the craft's size and the apparent lack of any identifiable provisioning. (See Attachment "D".) A similar analysis of the four dead occupants was arranged by Dr. Bronk. It was the tentative conclusion of this group (30 November, 1947) that although these creatures are human-like in appearance, the biological and evolutionary processes responsible for their development has apparently been quite different from those observed or postulated in homo-sapiens. Dr Bronk's tea has suggested the term "Extra-terrestrial Biological Entities", or "EBEs", be adopted as the standard term of reference for these creatures until such time as a more definitive designation can be agreed upon. Since it is virtually certain that these craft do not origin- ate in any country on earth, considerable speculation has centered around what their point of origin may be and how they get here. Mars was and remains a possibility, although some scientists, most notably Dr. Menzel, consider it more likely that we are dealing with beings from another solar system entirely. Numerous examples of what appear to be a form of writing were found in the wreckage. Efforts to decipher these have remained largely unsuccessful. (See Attachment "E".) Equally unsuccessful have been efforts to determine the method of propulsion or the nature or method of transmission of the power source involved. Research along these lines has been complicated by the complete absence of identifiable wings, propellers, jets, or other conventional methods of propulsion and guidance, as well as a total lack of metallic wiring, vacuum tubes, or similar recognizable electronic components. (See Attachment "F".) It is assumed that the propulsion unit was completely destroyed by the explosion which caused the crash.

Page 5

A need for as much additional information as possible about these craft, their performance characteristics and their purpose led to the undertaking known as U.S. Air Force Project SIGN in December, 1947. In order to preserve security, liason between SIGN and Majestic-12 was limited to two individuals within the Intelligence Division of Air Materiel Command whose role was to pass along certain types of information through channels. SIGN evolved into Project GRUDGE in December, 1948. The operation is currently being conducted under the code name BLUE BOOK, with liason maintained through the Air Force officer who is head of the project. On 06 December, 1950, a second object, probably of similar origin, impacted the earth at high speed in the El Indio - Guerrero area of Texas - Mexican border after following a long trajectory through the atmosphere. by the time a search team arrived, what remained of the object had been almost totally incinerated. Such material as could be recovered was transported to the A.E.C. facility at Sandia, New Mexico, for study. Implications for the National Security are of continuing im- portance in that the motives and ultimate intentions of these visitors remain completely unknown. In addition, a significant upsurge in the surveillance activity of these craft beginning in May and continuing through the autumn of this year has caused considerable concern that new developments may be imminent. It is for these reasons, as well as the obvious international and technological considerations and the ultimate need to avoid a public panic at all costs, that the Majestic-12 Group remains of the unanimous opinion that imposition of the strictest security precautions should continue without inter- ruption into the new administration. At the same time, con- tingency plan MJ-1949-04P/78 (Top Secret - Eyes Only) should be held in continued readiness should the need to make a public announcement present itself. (See Attachment "G".)

 

[TheVat]

Documents appear fake.  One description of the craft includes photomultiplier tubes that sound much like a 1940s idea of advanced tech.  Oppenheimer and Einstein were consulted?  And yet said nothing about it for the rest of their lives? Fermi and Teller had a famous chat at Los Alamos a couple years later in which it was clear they were unaware of any aliens visiting Earth, so I guess they weren't consulted on this amazing find.  Some of the other descriptions of a propulsion system sound suspiciously like futuristic technology you would find in pulp sci-fi of that era.  Several paragraphs gush over the lack of rivets and smooth skin of the craft - a big preoccupation at that time, before stealth technology began to develop smooth-hulled craft.  

And then we have the humanoid corpses.

 

Quote

the occupants appear in most respects

human with some anatomical differences in the head, eyes, hands and feet.

They have a slight build about five feet tall, with grayish-pink skin

color. They have no hair on their bodies and clothed with a tight fitting

flight suit that appears to be fire proof (some of the bodies looked

as if they had been burned on head and the hands). 

Please.  A high school sophomore with a basic understanding of evolutionary biology could explain how nonsensical that is.  I had a good laugh at the part about MPs who were so traumatized by the find that they commit suicide.  Seriously?  You just helped find and wrangle alien corpses and their spaceship, and instead of being out of your mind with excitement at how interesting your dull job became, you think I'm going to kill myself.  Life was so much better when I had to stand by a doorway or gate for hours, or shlep equipment around or break up tavern fights.  No more fascinating stuff, please!  It's killing me!  

[Moontanman]

1 minute ago, TheVat said:

Documents appear fake.  One description of the craft includes photomultiplier tubes that sound much like a 1940s idea of advanced tech.  Oppenheimer and Einstein were consulted?  And yet said nothing about it for the rest of their lives? Fermi and Teller had a famous chat at Los Alamos a couple years later in which it was clear they were unaware of any aliens visiting Earth, so I guess they weren't consulted on this amazing find.  Some of the other descriptions of a propulsion system sound suspiciously like futuristic technology you would find in pulp sci-fi of that era.  Several paragraphs gush over the lack of rivets and smooth skin of the craft - a big preoccupation at that time, before stealth technology began to develop smooth-hulled craft.  

And then we have the humanoid corpses.

 

Please.  A high school sophomore with a basic understanding of evolutionary biology could explain how nonsensical that is.  I had a good laugh at the part about MPs who were so traumatized by the find that they commit suicide.  Seriously?  You just helped find and wrangle alien corpses and their spaceship, and instead of being out of your mind with excitement at how interesting your dull job became, you think I'm going to kill myself.  Life was so much better when I had to stand by a doorway or gate for hours, or shlep equipment around or break up tavern fights.  No more fascinating stuff, please!  It's killing me!  

This does demand originals at the very least, photocopies are provocative but not really anything but a starting point to confirm their veracity. . 

[Externet]

46 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

This does demand originals at the very least, photocopies are provocative but not really anything but a starting point to confirm their veracity. . 

Ask for the originals to the military.  Not me.

[Moontanman]

35 minutes ago, Externet said:

Ask for the originals to the military.  Not me.

I'm not sure where these came from but they resemble papers I've read about that were sent anonymously to a researcher back in the late 60s or early 70s, anyway they used a signature of Harry Truman from another paper and zerox was used to put the signature on the papers. Not saying it is those papers but the resemblance is interesting.   

Edited May 6 by Moontanman

[Ghideon]

11 hours ago, TheVat said:

Documents appear fake.

I agree. 

@Externet what is the purpose of sharing the documents?

11 hours ago, Externet said:

Majestic-12 Group

Majestic 12, also known as Majic-12, and MJ-12 for short, is a purported organization that appears in UFO conspiracy theories.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_12)

The wikipedia page have several references, for instance FBI comment on documents like those posted above:  https://vault.fbi.gov/Majestic 12/ 

[Eise]

On 5/5/2024 at 3:21 PM, Moontanman said:

Did he admit his mistake and correct it or sit and insist he was correct despite the evidence? AFAIK making a mistake in science is not a sin. 

Sure, everybody makes mistakes. But Avi Loeb's 'It must be aliens!' is just looking for confirming evidence, not for sources of errors and looking at alternative, less spectacular possible explanations.

[Externet]

7 hours ago, Ghideon said:

@Externet what is the purpose of sharing the documents?

They were missing from the discussion thread.

[Moontanman]

19 hours ago, TheVat said:

Documents appear fake.  One description of the craft includes photomultiplier tubes that sound much like a 1940s idea of advanced tech.  Oppenheimer and Einstein were consulted?  And yet said nothing about it for the rest of their lives? Fermi and Teller had a famous chat at Los Alamos a couple years later in which it was clear they were unaware of any aliens visiting Earth, so I guess they weren't consulted on this amazing find.  Some of the other descriptions of a propulsion system sound suspiciously like futuristic technology you would find in pulp sci-fi of that era.  Several paragraphs gush over the lack of rivets and smooth skin of the craft - a big preoccupation at that time, before stealth technology began to develop smooth-hulled craft.  

And then we have the humanoid corpses.

 

Please.  A high school sophomore with a basic understanding of evolutionary biology could explain how nonsensical that is.  I had a good laugh at the part about MPs who were so traumatized by the find that they commit suicide.  Seriously?  You just helped find and wrangle alien corpses and their spaceship, and instead of being out of your mind with excitement at how interesting your dull job became, you think I'm going to kill myself.  Life was so much better when I had to stand by a doorway or gate for hours, or shlep equipment around or break up tavern fights.  No more fascinating stuff, please!  It's killing me!  

I agree, anytime I see aliens described as humanoid I cringe, the idea of aliens being remotely human is unlikely to say the least. It has to be said the "humanoid" shape often described is used to back the idea that "aliens" are time travelers or from another plane of existence. One mystery being used to explain yet another mystery... not a path to knowledge. 

Oh yeah there is the speculation that the "aliens" we see are really just biological probes/drones that are made to look like us... I think they missed the mark a bit with the grays... 

2 hours ago, Eise said:

Sure, everybody makes mistakes. But Avi Loeb's 'It must be aliens!' is just looking for confirming evidence, not for sources of errors and looking at alternative, less spectacular possible explanations.

While I wasn't following Avi all that closely I am saddened to learn he ran off the rails, he started out on track, I don't understand the "why" in cases like this. To have the cashe' to be able to pull off an investigation (I understood his point) and then ruin it with hubris just boggles my mind. 

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, Moontanman said:

I agree, anytime I see aliens described as humanoid I cringe, the idea of aliens being remotely human is unlikely to say the least. It has to be said the "humanoid" shape often described is used to back the idea that "aliens" are time travelers or from another plane of existence. One mystery being used to explain yet another mystery... not a path to knowledge. 

Mostly, a path to knowledge doesn't include a mysterious or ghostly apparition; unless you believe it does... 

[Moontanman]

15 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Mostly, a path to knowledge doesn't include a mysterious or ghostly apparition; unless you believe it does... 

Missed yet again, need a new scope on that rifle? 

Edited May 7 by Moontanman
spelling

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Moontanman said:

Missed yet again, need a new scope on the rifle? 

Indeed you do...

There's no such thing as a sentient iceburg,

[TheVat]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed you do...

There's no such thing as a sentient iceburg,

What a weird echoing labyrinth your mind must be.

[swansont]

8 hours ago, Externet said:

They were missing from the discussion thread.

Without links to their source and a way to vet them they are worthless. 

[dimreepr]

21 hours ago, TheVat said:

What a weird echoing labyrinth your mind must be.

If you listened to the pod-cast, maybe... You'd understand, just a little bit more, what the map might look like...😉 

Edited May 8 by dimreepr

[TheVat]

46 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

If you listened to the pod-cast, maybe... You'd understand, just a little bit more, what the map might look like...😉 

It's hard to decipher some of your oracular comments.  Can you offer a summary of what the podcast is about, in case I don't have the 41 minutes required to hear it?  And how it's relevant?