IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, beecee said: More unsupported agenda based rhetoric. You certainly have a problem with Musk don't you. Did he sack you for something? laziness? insubordination? Ignorance? I supported all my statements. Do you have a problem with my references? He's not the first to use reusable rockets. To use reusable spacecraft. To do water landings. To dock at the ISS. And since SpaceX takes government money and has for its entire lifetime its not the first private company to do anything. Apollo used private companies to do all its work. I cited the private companies that built America's spacecraft. 2 hours ago, beecee said: You keep ignoring the fact that there is tomorrow, next year, next decade, next century etc etc. You seem stuck in some mythical stone age of your own chosing. If it doesn't happen in your life time then it might as well never have happened. I'm telling you what the reality is. Scientists and engineers already looked at other propulsion systems. None worked 6 minutes ago, beecee said: No rhetorical, just as your "Mars may as well be a galaxy away" is.... You literally can't get there. So how is that rhetorical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, IDNeon said: I supported all my statements. Do you have a problem with my references? No, you supported some facts as they stand at this time. Science and technology are disciplines in eternal progress. The rest was as I said, unsupported emotional rhetoric. 6 minutes ago, IDNeon said: If it doesn't happen in your life time then it might as well never have happened. I see that as selfish stupid emotional claptrap. But I'll leave you to your own devices and living style. I prefer foresight and hoping things will be better for my kids, his kids and there kids, kids. The Sun doesn't shine out of my arse and I'm pretty sure going on your rhetorical nonsense, it doesn't shine out of yours either. You need to get out of that bubble. 11 minutes ago, IDNeon said: You literally can't get there. So how is that rhetorical? It's nonsense and unsupported. Please show me a reputable link that says we cannot ever get to Mars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Stop the feedings. We’ve now had 4 pages with zero progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, beecee said: No, you supported some facts as they stand at this time With regards to Musks supposed accomplishments I was pretty thorough. As I stated, he has done nothing new. He's just been a good propagandist. He captured some orbital launch commercial market and obviously some political connections. Boeing is already preparing their lawsuit and this one will probably finish SpaceX to be honest. Because Boeing already presented a viable solution to the moon shot NASA wants but the money went to Musk even though every one of his next generation rockets (quite literally all of them) have exploded. Oh what. You thought government money is just free, and NASA can award it to whoever they want? Ahahahahahah. As also mentioned. Northrup Grumman (which works with Boeing and shares contracts) neutered Elon Musk this year. SpaceX had no future. That is a LITERAL business assessment. NASA gave SpaceX a prestigious but not profitable contract to ferry astronauts to the space station. Using 1960s technology. TESLA's future doesn't look good either. Tesla was only able to capture 200,000 car sales a year before the entry of the big car companies to electric cars that are now being launched in the 2022 line up. 200,000 cars a year puts Musk at no competitive scale for anything. And he never broke into the Chinese market unlike European car manufacturers. I mean. How badly do you want me to rip Musk a new one? Not a single one of his businesses have ever once been profitable. Mic drop Edited May 3, 2021 by IDNeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 1 minute ago, IDNeon said: How badly do you want me to rip Musk a new one? Super bad. Please. I simply MUST know how you feel about Musk. You’ve been such a wall flower and so silent about him thus far. Please continue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, iNow said: Stop the feedings. We’ve now had 4 pages with zero progress Progress? I have literally itemized ALL the problems with Musk and with the idea of Mars transfer orbits to Low Martian Orbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, IDNeon said: With regards to Musks supposed accomplishments I was pretty thorough. As I stated, he has done nothing new. He's just been a good propagandist. He captured some orbital launch commercial market and obviously some political connections. Boeing is already preparing their lawsuit and this one will probably finish SpaceX to be honest. Because Boeing already presented a viable solution to the moon shot NASA wants but the money went to Musk even though every one of his next generation rockets (quite literally all of them) have exploded. Oh what. You thought government money is just free, and NASA can award it to whoever they want? Ahahahahahah. As also mentioned. Northrup Grumman (which works with Boeing and shares contracts) neutered Elon Musk this year. SpaceX had no future. That is a LITERAL business assessment. NASA gave SpaceX a prestigious but not profitable contract to ferry astronauts to the space station. Using 1960s technology. TESLA's future doesn't look good either. Tesla was only able to capture 200,000 car sales a year before the entry of the big car companies to electric cars that are now being launched in the 2022 line up. 200,000 cars a year puts Musk at no competitive scale for anything. And he never broke into the Chinese market unlike European car manufacturers. I mean. How badly do you want me to rip Musk a new one? Not a single one of his businesses have ever once been profitable. Mic drop 10 minutes ago, iNow said: Stop the feedings. We’ve now had 4 pages with zero progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Just now, iNow said: Super bad. Please. I simply MUST know how you feel about Musk. You’ve been such a wall flower and so silent about him thus far. Please continue It's so sad you think Musk will accomplish anything while China quite literally is building a space station in a year. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX#Summary_of_achievements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 I already demolished those supposed achievements. Doing things other companies have already done and stamping "first private company to do this" on it...is NOT an achievement. SpaceX took government money just like all the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, IDNeon said: It's so sad you think Musk will accomplish anything while China quite literally is building a space station in a year. A space station? 😊 You mean like that little fart arse space station NASA first launched in 73? Sky Lab it was called. They aren't space stations1 This is a space station!! Edited May 3, 2021 by beecee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 You realize that China's space station will be as big as the ISS in a year right? And does everyone just LIE for Musk? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/03/30/elon-musks-spacex-makes-history-by-launching-a-flight-proven-rocket/ What is this lie? Nasa has been reusing first stage boosters for 40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, IDNeon said: You realize that China's space station will be as big as the ISS in a year right? And does everyone just LIE for Musk? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/03/30/elon-musks-spacex-makes-history-by-launching-a-flight-proven-rocket/ What is this lie? Nasa has been reusing first stage boosters for 40 years. We are going round in circles and I have been asked to ignore the trolls. Edited May 3, 2021 by beecee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 What circle? I've proven. 1) Musk has accomplished nothing new. 2) China is beating the pants off Musk. 3) SpaceX has a lifespan and its time is running out. 4) Boeing is suing SpaceX's contract award. 5) You can't physically get large payloads to Mars with current propulsion systems. 6) Musk doesn't even have the dV ability to get to the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, IDNeon said: You realize that China's space station will be as big as the ISS in a year right? If it doesn't happen in my lifetime, it may as well never happen. 🤣 1 minute ago, IDNeon said: What circle? I've proven. Stop pretending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, beecee said: Stop pretending. I literally showed it to you multiple ways. Showed you where his "firsts" claims aren't actually firsts. Showed you where his rockets don't achieve the dV needed. How this not proof? 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 23 minutes ago, IDNeon said: What circle? I've proven. 1) Musk has accomplished nothing new. 2) China is beating the pants off Musk. 3) SpaceX has a lifespan and its time is running out. 4) Boeing is suing SpaceX's contract award. 5) You can't physically get large payloads to Mars with current propulsion systems. 6) Musk doesn't even have the dV ability to get to the moon. Are you looking for praise for your intellect? Perhaps you've improved your inter-personal skills to a level you've never achieved before and wanted to show them off? You are looking to make new friends? What exactly is your purpose on this site? What do you hope to achieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, zapatos said: Are you looking for praise for your intellect? Perhaps you've improved your inter-personal skills to a level you've never achieved before and wanted to show them off? You are looking to make new friends? What exactly is your purpose on this site? What do you hope to achieve? I hope to educate you because you're wrong or worse...believing Musk isn't a fraud. And it's not just Musk. The idea that we can get to Mars is a fantasy for the foreseeable future. Status quo has to change. It can't be brute forced by rocketry. Musk is just blowing disgusting smoke while China is taking the lead in an actual space and arms race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Ignoring the troll, and unsupported rhetorical nonsense, and going back to the OP and the vote of whether Musk can get to the Mars by 2024...my vote would probably be no. With the proviso that I most certainly hope I am wrong. 2024 does seem slightly beyond our dreams at this time, even allowing for obvious ongoing improvements in technology and science. My own outlook on what will happen, is that firstly we will return to the Moon and create a colony, probably by the late 2020,s. Harware from there will be sent to Mars, along with hardware in Earth orbit for living capsules etc, in preparation for a manned landing, which by necessity will probably need a stay of around 18 months. Of course this may be shortened or changed depending on technological and scientific advancements made in that time. An international effort is the best way to go, and I'm hopeful enough to believe that such an international effort is not beyond reason. During the same time period, I also envisage some attempts at asteroid mining. Robotics will play a major roll in all of this. Probably the greatest advancement needed, would be protection of the astronauts during any CME's or similar above solar radiation events. Human nature, the need for scientific advancement, the need for exploration, the need for adventure and the human spirit, will see those goals achieved in the course of time, in as safe a manner as possible. Once the basics has been achieved, I see it then advancing in leaps and bounds, and our children, and our children's children, will be witnessed to some incredible progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Look if you think I'm some naysayer you got me wrong. I want to see a huge increase in space travel. But we have MAJOR PROBLEMS. 1) space is worthless. 2) Musk makes dead-end promises. And he's suckered you all into believing it. We NEED a paradigm shift. We NEED to change status quo of propulsion. Musk isn't doing that. We need an ORBITER type space craft. Not more capsules. We need to replace the ISS and China is jumping on the opportunity there. Don't you see what's happening? If China already has a space station when we retire the ISS then how does America justify the building of another one? China is seizing the initiative while Musk is literally a THIEF. I have shown how he is a thief. We even are losing Liquid H2 technology because of Musk. He's using PR1 while China is using H2-LOX. DO YOU REALIZE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT? -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, IDNeon said: I hope to educate you... How very paternalistic of you. This is however a discussion site, not your blog, and certainly you were not hired to come here and teach us. I'm sure there are others who wish to be educated by you, but unfortunately you've come to the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, beecee said: With the proviso that I most certainly hope I am wrong What is this? 3 years to get to Mars? What part of not having enough dV did you not get? 2 minutes ago, zapatos said: This is however a discussion site, not your blog, and certainly you were not hired to come here and teach us. I have discussed this quite thoroughly and despite even showing the evidence I get told I'm being "rhetorical". It's laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, IDNeon said: I have discussed this quite thoroughly and despite even showing the evidence I get told I'm being "rhetorical". That's probably because you are not here for discussion but to educate us. That's not what we do here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDNeon Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Just now, zapatos said: That's probably because you are not here for discussion but to educate us. That's not what we do here What do you want to discuss? Does Musk have any rockets that can get to the Moon? Right now. Any at all? How short from getting to the moon is Musk? How much money will it take to make up the difference that Musks rockets currently have. Also can you make it to the moon using RP1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) Having given my opinion on when and how we are likley to put boots on Mars, I'll now turn my attention to Elon Musk.... While obviously having a large ego [nothing to wrong with that] he also is doing something worthwhile with that ego and forward thinking....Zip2, Tesla, Space-X tec etc...the Space=X achievements are nothing short of outstanding...the first reusable vertical standing return rocket not being the least of those. I like some of his mottos.... You shouldn’t do things just because they’re different. They need to be better.” “A company only exists if they do useful things for other people… A company must be doing something significant.” “You want the future to be better than the past… Keep thinking about: are these efforts resulting in a better product or service – and if they’re not, stop those efforts.” Don’t be delusional Don’t get infatuated with your brilliant mind. Take it for granted that you might be doing something wrong, and seek the counsel of trusted friends. Or, as Musk puts it: “Constantly seek criticism. A well thought out criticism of whatever you’re doing is as valuable as gold.” “Take as much feedback as you can from as many people as you can.” “What’s the difference between really believing in your ideals and sticking to them, versus pursuing some unrealistic dream that doesn’t really have merit? You have to be very rigorous in your self-analysis.” more of his achievments can be found here........https://careers.workopolis.com/advice/career-inspiration-elon-musk-5-steps-becoming-extraordinary/ ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Edited May 3, 2021 by beecee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now