hijack from Magnetically levitated wheels

[Bill McC]

On 11/20/2014 at 7:10 PM, TransformerRobot said:

I recently saw Big Hero 6 in theatres.

 

One of the main heroes, Go Go Tomago, is working on a faster bicycle by using wheels suspended electromagnetically.

 

Would such technology work in real life? I've seen it done before, but only in works of fiction.

Standard bicycle ball bearings offer very little resistance. Magnetic bearings create a small amount of resistance to movement. The idea of magnetically levitated bearings has been done before in military aircraft for the propulsion system in the late sixties on a prototype F-14. They also rotationally powered the levitated impeller in the pump with a 400-hertz inverter. When in trials against other planes, the pilots turned off the fuel-powered generator and ran on batteries, and the other planes had no firing solution without a heat signature. Having a plane in the air, they had no firing solution for infuriated some, and the plane was shelved. Today this would not be a factor because other methods are used to lock up targets as well as a heat signature. 

Large refrigeration compressors working in the field use magnetic bearings, so that oil added to the refrigerant to lubricate the bearings is not necessary. No oil in the refrigerant makes reclamation of refrigerant much easier. Refrigerants can remain in oil even after a reclamation unit has removed the freon from the decommissioned system. 
Part of the reason magnetic bearing systems are so much more efficient is not just the bearing but the design used for pumping. 

https://www.energy.gov/eere/femp/magnetic-bearing-chiller-compressors

The number one problem today with refrigeration contamination comes from technicians using the same gauges on other systems with different oil types. Today in the common home HVAC systems, larger building HVAC systems, and refrigeration systems, the oil used in a new system is Polyester oil. However, many systems still use Alkyl-benzene oil or mineral oil for older R-22 systems. Even a small amount of contamination from one system to the other can cause the oil to gum up and affect metering devices in the system. The piston-type metering valve on smaller commercial refrigeration is often affected. It is often a combination of mixed oils, water, and suspended solid contaminants in the glue like oil that cause failure. These metering systems act as a venturi to limit flow and create the pressure differentials that cause movement of heat within the system. There are capillary, piston, and TXV valves that create the regulation of flow. The metering device is where contaminated oil will cause trouble. 

High-pressure line filter dryers and low-pressure line dryers help with very small amounts of contamination and become clogged with larger amounts of contamination. If you are taking your Unlimited Refrigeration License test this is the stuff that is on it. 

[MigL]

I am well famliar with the history of the Grumman F-14 tomcat and how it arose from the stillborn General Dynamics F-111B ( TFX for the Navy ).
Magnetic bearings may have been tried for the various pumps, fuel, lubrication, A/C, etc., but they were most certainly not used for any hot cycle propulsion bearings, so I really don't see how 'switching to battery' would deny anyone a firing solution.
The F-14 and its fire control radar use the Phoenix missile, a fully active radar homing missile, capable of beyond visual range use in fire-and-forget mode.
Other missiles that may have been used, would be the Sparrow, a semi-active radar homng missile which needs the launch aircraft to 'illuminate' the target at least part of the way before its own radar takes over in the terminal phase, and the Sidewinder, an infrared seeker missile with no radar, that homes in on the hot engine efflux of the target.

Anyone who claims magnetic pump bearings can defeat those types of missile homing systems, makes me reach for the shovel, as it is a load of crap.

[Bill McC]

9 hours ago, MigL said:

I am well famliar with the history of the Grumman F-14 tomcat and how it arose from the stillborn General Dynamics F-111B ( TFX for the Navy ).
Magnetic bearings may have been tried for the various pumps, fuel, lubrication, A/C, etc., but they were most certainly not used for any hot cycle propulsion bearings, so I really don't see how 'switching to battery' would deny anyone a firing solution.
The F-14 and its fire control radar use the Phoenix missile, a fully active radar homing missile, capable of beyond visual range use in fire-and-forget mode.
Other missiles that may have been used, would be the Sparrow, a semi-active radar homng missile which needs the launch aircraft to 'illuminate' the target at least part of the way before its own radar takes over in the terminal phase, and the Sidewinder, an infrared seeker missile with no radar, that homes in on the hot engine efflux of the target.

Anyone who claims magnetic pump bearings can defeat those types of missile homing systems, makes me reach for the shovel, as it is a load of crap.

The F-111 was also a United States Air Force nuclear bomber. If you read my post, I stated that a prototype F-14 built here at Bethpage Grumman had trial GE magnetically levitated tubular impellers that drove quarter-circle impeller blades at very high RPMs to create moderately high pressure. It never became a production aircraft, like the F-14A through the F-14D with the massive camera guided rockets in the seventies. 

The motor that drove the impeller of the electric GE engine was hollow so that you could look right through the engine and plane. They did it for two reasons: a flock of birds, or softball sized hail could not take it down, and rounds would travel right through the engine, not harming it. There were thrust-bearing magnetic windings and levitating windings on the ends of the hollow tubular motor that were larger in diameter to make it appear the motor and tubular impeller around it were one piece from the outside looking in, for aerodynamics. There were helical drive windings along its length. The impeller was just a tube with the quarter circle impeller blades that created a very efficient pumping action.  The inside diameter of the motor was about 30". 
There was an adjustable venturi at the outlet that, when open, you could blow dry your hair behind the plane with the impeller running all out. As you adjusted the venturi, the pressure and velocity rose, and you could no longer blow dry your hair because you would be blown away. It sounded like a bottle rocket at that point. 

It is similar to a paint spray gun powered by high-pressure air when you open the paint valve by retracting the tapered pin that keeps the paint from coming out. Even though the air that will propel it is already running, you can feel the weight of the spray gun and paint cup lesson as the paint starts to flow. That was the rather simple principle of the engine. The venturi only adjusted the outlet of the impeller pressure; it did not alter the large 30" diameter hole through the engine and plane. So when the pressure started getting very high, the velocity became extremely high around the central hole in the motor, which had about 1,000 square inches of area. As the high-velocity air is passed around that hole in the motor, it causes a partial vacuum to occur that pulls air through the motor where it mixes with the high-pressure air giving you a moderate pressure high-velocity propulsion. A 400-hertz fuel-powered generator drove an inverter that drove the motor. 

I knew Roy Grumman personally since I was two, and I was very good friends with a Marine that worked for Roy; he was an engineer that worked on high tech prototype projects for Roy. He was Roy's caddy when he was a kid. I tried to purchase the two engines, they tried to set up an auction so I could, but it was still classified, so unless I wanted to pay $25,000 a piece, they couldn't push it through, I was still young at the time and in the seventies that was a lot of money. No one wanted to get caught letting them slip out the back door as I planned to put one on a boat that probably would have become rather popular. 
There were a couple of plane magazines that mentioned the motors years ago. But as they did with Rigel ramjet rockets of the early fifties, they played down the rocket's success; they also played down the success of the F-14 with the GE electric levitating bearing motor. For years they denied the Rigel Ramjet Rocket. I welded up a railing for this museum, when I saw some of the projects, I was surprised they had the courage to display them with the facts. Most people didn't know we had a submarine-launched nuclear weapons platform in the fifties. 

https://www.cradleofaviation.org/history/exhibits/exhibit-galleries/exploring_space/grumman_xssm-n-6_rigel.html

The attachment is my garage. 

[MigL]

What are you talking about ?
Grumman, even after aquisition and merger with Northrop, has never produced aero engines.
It is a totally different area of expertise, and best left to the GE, P&W, RR, Safran, Honeywell, etc.

You certainly can't mean the main engines of the F-14, as the main contractor for the propulsion systems was Pratt and Whitney, with the TF-30 for the A model, which would have been superseded by the F-401 in the definitive B model.
It was only some 20 years later that the F-14 D model got some advanced technology general Electric engines in the way of the F110-GE-400.
Are you maybe talking about the APU ?

Maybe, instead of relating stories, and dropping names as to how you personally knew Roy Grumman, you could try to be more clear as to what you are talking about, and post some evidence for your assertions.

Edited April 23, 2021 by MigL

[iNow]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Maybe, instead of relating stories, and dropping names as to how you personally knew Roy Grumman, you could try to be more clear as to what you are talking about, and post some evidence for your assertions.

Seems unlikely given how consistently he's spreading misinformation and silliness in all of the various threads in which he's participating.