Safer for a healthy 32 year old: contracting COVID or getting the vaccine?

[Xelo]

I work from home too, very ignorant about the whole ordeal because I've never opened my blinds or even went down for the mail when this first happened and was tired of seeing all the political warfare used in mainstream media to distract us from real issues. Reading more and more about what it could mean if I didn't get vaccinated or simply believing the government is testing to see whom could survive this vaccination as a means to spread fear on those whom didn't is way out there in the solar system and so fourth lol. People whom have no data to present to me tell me all sorts of things I try to understand where the logic comes from and to my surprise its motivated reasoning... Get the vaccination as a means to fight off future mutations at least if you want to survive.

[iNow]

1 hour ago, Xelo said:

Get the vaccination as a means to fight off future mutations at least if you want to survive.

Also because it helps save the lives of those you love, those you know, and those you neither. 

[ahmet]

I heard SSP disease (but this name was presumably in turkish,do not know about english name)

this was caused by a vaccine and could be out long years after the vaccination and not appearing on everyone.

I also come across an interesting thing, turkish processes a bit chnged but in spite of the smallness of those chnages I think the system is not same with the past (in comparison)

for instance , ethical board does not work thoroughly in implementation of lots of scientific projects.(also,it is not a requirement)(i.e. security issues arising(?))

Edited May 22, 2021 by ahmet

[BabcockHall]

"Two doses of BNT162b2 are highly effective across all age groups (≥16 years, including older adults aged ≥85 years) in preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections and COVID-19-related hospitalisations, severe disease, and death, including those caused by the B.1.1.7 SARS-CoV-2 variant. There were marked and sustained declines in SARS-CoV-2 incidence corresponding to increasing vaccine coverage. These findings suggest that COVID-19 vaccination can help to control the pandemic."  From a study of the  Pfizer vaccine in Israel, published earlier this month in The Lancet.

"This study in a nationwide mass vaccination setting suggests that the BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine is effective for a wide range of Covid-19–related outcomes, a finding consistent with that of the randomized trial."  From a study published in April, in the New England Journal of Medicine.

There was an article at CNN that quoted some hematologists, all of whom recommended that people get the vaccine.

[Alfred001]

To revive this topic, here's data from VAERS on adverse events:

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=CAT&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19

4k deaths, 3.8k life-threatening adverse events, 12k hospitalizations etc.

Now, I understand around 160 million people in the US have taken at least one dose. With that many vaccinations, these adverse events could be coincidental, but I want to hear comments. What do you guys think is the explanation? Have the deaths been investigated for possible causality? And so forth...

[iNow]

How do those numbers compare to number of adverse events, hospitalizations, and deaths among people who did not receive a vaccine? I bet those numbers are close since the vaccine doesn’t lead to the outcomes you describe. Get vaccinated. The math on this isn’t hard yet you seem hell bent on continuing to misread it. 

[Bufofrog]

Over 3,000 unvaccinated people have died in the US in the last 7 days.  Their concerns about the safety of vaccines and/or their political position on the vaccine appears to have been a bad choice.

It certainly looks like the anti-vaxer and Trumpian population in the US is dropping.  Sad and ironic....

[Alfred001]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

How do those numbers compare to number of adverse events, hospitalizations, and deaths among people who did not receive a vaccine? I bet those numbers are close since the vaccine doesn’t lead to the outcomes you describe. Get vaccinated. The math on this isn’t hard yet you seem hell bent on continuing to misread it. 

I don't understand, first you say you don't know the numbers for AEs of COVID patients, then you say the math isn't hard. Was that a bluff, a joke, am I halucinating??? On a science forum, OF ALL PLACES, I can't believe I'm encountered with this kind of an attitude and I can't understand why you're so opposed to considering the evidence.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Alfred001

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, Alfred001 said:

I don't understand, first you say you don't know the numbers for AEs of COVID patients, then you say the math isn't hard. Was that a bluff, a joke, am I halucinating??? On a science forum, OF ALL PLACES, I can't believe I'm encountered with this kind of an attitude and I can't understand why you're so opposed to considering the evidence.

You don't seem to understand the concept of safer...

[Alfred001]

9 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

You don't seem to understand the concept of safer...

Either make an argument or don't spam the thread.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Alfred001 said:

Either make an argument or don't spam the thread.

OK, what do you mean by safer, in this context?

Is it safer for you, or is it safer for everyone?

 

[iNow]

32 minutes ago, Alfred001 said:

first you say you don't know the numbers for AEs of COVID patients

I never said any such thing. Please stop lying. 

[Alfred001]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

I never said any such thing. Please stop lying. 

Are you crazy? Your post is right there for everyone to see. Let me repeat it

Quote

How do those numbers compare to number of adverse events, hospitalizations, and deaths among people who did not receive a vaccine? I bet those numbers are close since the vaccine doesn’t lead to the outcomes you describe. Get vaccinated. The math on this isn’t hard yet you seem hell bent on continuing to misread it. 

You bet the numbers of AE for non-vaccinated people are comparable to vaccinated. In other words, you don't know. But...

Quote

The math on this isn’t hard yet you seem hell bent on continuing to misread it. 

You're literally making stuff up.

Not to mention that you accuse me of "continuing to misread" the math, meanwhile I didn't bring any math up. I named the number of AE that have been reported for the vaccines. What math am I misreading? You're talking about things that don't exist in the thread.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Alfred001

[studiot]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:35 PM, studiot said:

On 5/7/2021 at 4:18 PM, Alfred001 said:

 

I'm genuinely curious as to what the cause is for the hostility? I've asked for information in the interest of educating myself, am I not allowed to hear all the evidence before making a decision?

Well I'm sorry I can't see any hostility in my response.

I even suggested you do exactly that - hear and evaluate the evidence, but from the medical professionals directly concerned.

Ultimately the decision is yours alone.

 

I have had no response to this

 

I do see that others are consistently offering the same message as this this new apparantly unbiased member, Xelo   +1

On 5/18/2021 at 5:49 AM, Xelo said:

I work from home too, very ignorant about the whole ordeal because I've never opened my blinds or even went down for the mail when this first happened and was tired of seeing all the political warfare used in mainstream media to distract us from real issues. Reading more and more about what it could mean if I didn't get vaccinated or simply believing the government is testing to see whom could survive this vaccination as a means to spread fear on those whom didn't is way out there in the solar system and so fourth lol. People whom have no data to present to me tell me all sorts of things I try to understand where the logic comes from and to my surprise its motivated reasoning... Get the vaccination as a means to fight off future mutations at least if you want to survive.

 

Since you want figures, here are some to chew on.

The UK thought (hoped) it was past the worst but, today it was announced that  new infections are rising rapidly again (daily figure up 50% from Wednesday to Thursday) and that

1) over 80% of new infections are in people with one or no vaccination.

2) over 50% of the new infections are now from the new (indian) variant. This has risen from nowhere in the last two weeks.

3) New infections are significantly affecting a steadily increasing % of much younger folks. The average age of a covid patient in hospital is going down.

4) New infections had just fallen below 1000 per day but are now back in the several thousand per day again.

4) Yesterday it was announced that there was one death from a (rare type of) blood clot in a youngish female radio presenter a couple of days after an AZ vaccination. The coroner is looking into the possibility of an adverse reaction. There is no cover up.

6) We do not yet have outcomes for those who have recently caught covid but the death rate is still many times per day that sad outcome for that one radio lady on one day.

7) I believe that the total number of deaths in the UK that might have been come from reactions is 33 and the total number of deaths from covid is 127,000.

All this information (and more)  is reported daily on the BBC.

 

So the clear message is that your chances of catching covid are many thousands of times greater without an innoculation and still a few thousand times greater of dying from it than from the innoculation.

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by studiot

[Alfred001]

14 minutes ago, studiot said:

 

I have had no response to this

 

I do see that others are consistently offering the same message as this this new apparantly unbiased member, Xelo

 

Since you want figures, here are some to chew on.

The UK thought (hoped) it was past the worst but, today it was announced that  new infections are rising rapidly again (daily figure up 50% from Wednesday to Thursday) and that

1) over 80% of new infections are in people with one or no vaccination.

2) over 50% of the new infections are now from the new (indian) variant. This has risen from nowhere in the last two weeks.

3) New infections are significantly affecting a steadily increasing % of much younger folks. The average age of a covid patient in hospital is going down.

4) New infections had just fallen below 1000 per day but are now back in the several thousand per day again.

4) Yesterday it was announced that there was one death from a (rare type of) blood clot in a youngish female radio presenter a couple of days after an AZ vaccination. The coroner is looking into the possibility of an adverse reaction. There is no cover up.

6) We do not yet have outcomes for those who have recently caught covid but the death rate is still many times per day that sad outcome for that one radio lady on one day.

7) I believe that the total number of deaths in the UK that might have been come from reactions is 33 and the total number of deaths from covid is 127,000.

All this information (and more)  is reported daily on the BBC.

 

So the clear message is that your chances of catching covid are many thousands of times greater without an innoculation and still a few thousand times greater of dying from it than from the innoculation.

 

#1 Well, this is not a figure, but I would like to see specific figures if anyone has them. What % of young people infected end up hospitalized now?

#2 Wtf, who mentioned any coverup??? Can people not conceive that someone wants to examine the evidence before making a decision without being a q anon truther? Maybe that's much to expect at a place where people celebrate the death of their political opponents with glee and get likes for it 🤮

#3 But the question here is what is the number of young, fit, healthy people who have died from COVID vs vaccine deaths (if there be any), not what is the number of total COVID deaths? I doubt many of those COVID deaths were people younger than 50 and with no comorbidities.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Alfred001

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Alfred001 said:

#1 Well, this is not a figure, but I would like to see specific figures if anyone has them. What % of young people infected end up hospitalized now?

#2 Wtf, who mentioned any coverup??? Can people not conceive that someone wants to examine the evidence before making a decision without being a q anon truther? Maybe that's much to expect at a place where people celebrate the death of their political opponents with glee and get likes for it 🤮

#3 You're not comparing like with like. What is the number of young, fit, healthy people who have died from COVID vs vaccine deaths (if there be any)? I doubt many of those COVID deaths were people younger than 50 and with no comorbidities.

We can't compare like for like, while we allow it to grow and mutate; it's like asking, why do car's that are allowed to go as fast as possible, kill people?

[Alfred001]

Just now, dimreepr said:

We can't compare like for like, while we allow it to grow and mutate; it's like asking, why do car's that are allowed to go as fast as possible, kill people?

I meant in terms of demographics, not virus type.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Alfred001 said:

I meant in terms of demographics, not virus type.

What demographic steps in front of a car?

[Alfred001]

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

What demographic steps in front of a car?

?

This was my point:

But the question here is what is the number of young, fit, healthy people who have died from COVID vs vaccine deaths (if there be any), not what is the number of total COVID deaths? I doubt many of those COVID deaths were people younger than 50 and with no comorbidities.

What is yours?

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Alfred001 said:

?

This was my point:

But the question here is what is the number of young, fit, healthy people who have died from COVID vs vaccine deaths (if there be any), not what is the number of total COVID deaths? I doubt many of those COVID deaths were people younger than 50 and with no comorbidities.

What is yours?

One day, you'll be older than 50... 😉

[Alfred001]

3 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

One day, you'll be older than 50... 😉

But I'm not right now and I work from home and frankly don't leave the house much and never without a mask, so until I'm 50 or my life circumstances change in such a way that I become a reasonably likely spreader I'm going to be concerned with healthy 32 year olds.

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Alfred001 said:

But I'm not right now and I work from home and frankly don't leave the house much and never without a mask, so until I'm 50 or my life circumstances change in such a way that I become a reasonably likely spreader I'm going to be concerned with healthy 32 year olds.

Then selfish, does seem to have a demographic... 🙄

[studiot]

58 minutes ago, Alfred001 said:

#1 Well, this is not a figure, but I would like to see specific figures if anyone has them. What % of young people infected end up hospitalized now?

#2 Wtf, who mentioned any coverup??? Can people not conceive that someone wants to examine the evidence before making a decision without being a q anon truther? Maybe that's much to expect at a place where people celebrate the death of their political opponents with glee and get likes for it 🤮

#3 But the question here is what is the number of young, fit, healthy people who have died from COVID vs vaccine deaths (if there be any), not what is the number of total COVID deaths? I doubt many of those COVID deaths were people younger than 50 and with no comorbidities.

 

Well following the same logic, (using a sample size of one) I could judge all Americans as rude and ignorant.

You are lucky enough to have the right and the resources (unlike many in this world) to receive the vaccine or to reject it.

Make your choice and shut the f up about it.

 

 

[Alfred001]

12 minutes ago, studiot said:

 

Well following the same logic, (using a sample size of one) I could judge all Americans as rude and ignorant.

You are lucky enough to have the right and the resources (unlike many in this world) to receive the vaccine or to reject it.

Make your choice and shut the f up about it.

 

 

Don't try to follow logic, you're no good at it. You wrote a 7 point post and over half of them bore in no way on the discussion at hand lol

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Alfred001 said:

Don't try to follow logic, you're no good at it. You wrote a 7 point post and over half of them bore in no way on the discussion at hand lol

You follow logic like you hand out neg rep's, with no reason other than a childish need to be right...